RealGM

BadMofoPimp wrote:

grayson11 wrote:

BadMofoPimp wrote:You make it sound like he is just killing it out there. Tearing it up with all those moves and consistent offensive markmanship.

Not sure why Nicholson has to be "tearing it up" to warrant playing time on a rebuilding team. Besides, I'm sure if you gave most of our roster 20 shots a night they're bound to drop 7 buckets.

Don't get me wrong, BBD has a much better current ability than our young front-court. Only one concern with that though: we're not playing for the current title.

True that. But, a coach also has to play for his job to and to keep fans in the seats so the owner doesn't lose mad money either. Hence, it would be suicide to throw rookies in there and lose by 20-30pts every single night and play to an empty arena.

BBD may not be great, but he is a solid NBA player who fans like to watch even when he makes poor decisions, it gives people something to talk about. BBD does put a few butts in seats. Hence, makes money for the owner.

Yup, those reasons can't be denied. Everyone in the organization (including the players, JV, and RH) has their own reasons for taking up certain actions. But since I'm an unpaid supporter of this team, my preference remains as is. I don't get fired from being a fan just because I want the rooks to play.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ls-A4zVyJ0[/youtube]

I loved it when the Commentators make comments about BBD when he is in the midst of taking a shot like "He didn't hesitate to take that shot" and I am just LOLOLOL afterwards. At least losing this way is funny.

Cigamodnalro wrote:[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ls-A4zVyJ0[/youtube]

Nobody wants him taking threes unless he has no choice, but I'll leave these here anyway...
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cV9C9QhS20Y[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8rcMPCtYJs[/youtube]

i just saw this and Laughed so hard at when he tried to run to the bench and the ref stopped him, then had to hold him up and the look on BBD face right afterwards.

Got to give him credit though. He was completely out of it and still tried to run.

For all the crazy, zany things he does on and off the court, BBD is a warrior and will do just about anything coaches ask him to do. He goes all out and you can't teach that to people.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcGdnvhOfNg&feature=player_embedded#![/youtube]

Bensational wrote:someone has to take the shots. we've got a team full of role players and rookies, so ultimately, someone will have to step up. whilst i'd prefer JJ to be taking them, it doesn't seem to be in his nature. he's the consumate team player, looking for other people as much as his own shot. Afflalo seems reluctant to want to take over a game. Meer isn't healthy, nor is Hedo (although, he's just as bad as Baby). Vucevic could, but his numbers don't indicate a desire to take a game over, just a desire to play his role. Moore can score in bunches, but will his volume attempts really be that much better than Baby? Harkless and Nicholson are way too inconsistent.

Baby isn't ideal, but if we had a better option that was prepared to take on a more dominant role, they've got no excuse for failing to step up so far. we're undermanned, and we're projected as a scrub team.

with a squad like this, i'm happy for any player to take their chance to become a star. that's what it's all about.

Davis on a good team is a 8 shot per game guy.
Davis on a pretty mediocre bad team is around 12 shots per game.
Davis on a horrible team would be 15-16 shots per game
Davis at 20 shots a game would be a joke. At 20 shots a game he taking at least 7 shots a game he has almost no shot to make.

The idea that well we don't have any great players means he can take all the shots is just crazy. He just isn't good enough to take a bunch of shots. Were talking about a player who offensive rating was 10 points less than the league average last year.

The stone reality is Glen Davis is a chucker. He is one of those guys at the YMCA who takes shots he can't make. Who thinks he is better than what he really is. He nearly led the team a year ago in shots per minute. That with Dwight Howard, Ryan Anderson, Jason Richardson on the team. Right now he taking 19 shots per game in 31 minutes. Kevin Durant only takes 16 shots a game and plays nearly 40 minutes a game. He is chucking them up faster than Carmelo Anthony. Kyrie Irving is pretty much a one man show in Cleveland and he getting them up faster than him.

You will notice almost all high volume shooters are guards or wing players. For you to take that many shots as a 4 or 5 is pretty crazy. Kevin Love was pretty much a one man show last year. He got up 20 shots a game but it took him 40 minutes. Glen Davis is getting nearly as many shots per game in 31 as Kevin Love did in 40. Love scored 24 ppg on 117 offensive rating. Glen Davis 16 ppg on a 88 offensive rating.

Were not the only team with a lot of role players. Chicago is similar but you don't see Boozer taking 20 plus shots a game. Kemba Walker is the only Bobcat right now that takes a lot of shots per game at 16 a game. Big Baby gets up a bunch of shots because he just a selfish chucker who thinks he is talented.

richboy wrote:

Bensational wrote:someone has to take the shots. we've got a team full of role players and rookies, so ultimately, someone will have to step up. whilst i'd prefer JJ to be taking them, it doesn't seem to be in his nature. he's the consumate team player, looking for other people as much as his own shot. Afflalo seems reluctant to want to take over a game. Meer isn't healthy, nor is Hedo (although, he's just as bad as Baby). Vucevic could, but his numbers don't indicate a desire to take a game over, just a desire to play his role. Moore can score in bunches, but will his volume attempts really be that much better than Baby? Harkless and Nicholson are way too inconsistent.

Baby isn't ideal, but if we had a better option that was prepared to take on a more dominant role, they've got no excuse for failing to step up so far. we're undermanned, and we're projected as a scrub team.

with a squad like this, i'm happy for any player to take their chance to become a star. that's what it's all about.

Davis on a good team is a 8 shot per game guy.
Davis on a pretty mediocre bad team is around 12 shots per game.
Davis on a horrible team would be 15-16 shots per game
Davis at 20 shots a game would be a joke. At 20 shots a game he taking at least 7 shots a game he has almost no shot to make.

The idea that well we don't have any great players means he can take all the shots is just crazy. He just isn't good enough to take a bunch of shots. Were talking about a player who offensive rating was 10 points less than the league average last year.

The stone reality is Glen Davis is a chucker. He is one of those guys at the YMCA who takes shots he can't make. Who thinks he is better than what he really is. He nearly led the team a year ago in shots per minute. That with Dwight Howard, Ryan Anderson, Jason Richardson on the team. Right now he taking 19 shots per game in 31 minutes. Kevin Durant only takes 16 shots a game and plays nearly 40 minutes a game. He is chucking them up faster than Carmelo Anthony. Kyrie Irving is pretty much a one man show in Cleveland and he getting them up faster than him.

You will notice almost all high volume shooters are guards or wing players. For you to take that many shots as a 4 or 5 is pretty crazy. Kevin Love was pretty much a one man show last year. He got up 20 shots a game but it took him 40 minutes. Glen Davis is getting nearly as many shots per game in 31 as Kevin Love did in 40. Love scored 24 ppg on 117 offensive rating. Glen Davis 16 ppg on a 88 offensive rating.

Were not the only team with a lot of role players. Chicago is similar but you don't see Boozer taking 20 plus shots a game. Kemba Walker is the only Bobcat right now that takes a lot of shots per game at 16 a game. Big Baby gets up a bunch of shots because he just a selfish chucker who thinks he is talented.

QFE

I think the debate over whether he's a chucker is pretty cut & dry. I guess it comes down to if you think it's OK to let a selfish chucker feed his ego on your team. You can make the argument that because we have no one else, who cares really? Let him chuck. I personally would never want to have that type of player on my team no matter what the circumstances.

richboy wrote:

Bensational wrote:someone has to take the shots. we've got a team full of role players and rookies, so ultimately, someone will have to step up. whilst i'd prefer JJ to be taking them, it doesn't seem to be in his nature. he's the consumate team player, looking for other people as much as his own shot. Afflalo seems reluctant to want to take over a game. Meer isn't healthy, nor is Hedo (although, he's just as bad as Baby). Vucevic could, but his numbers don't indicate a desire to take a game over, just a desire to play his role. Moore can score in bunches, but will his volume attempts really be that much better than Baby? Harkless and Nicholson are way too inconsistent.

Baby isn't ideal, but if we had a better option that was prepared to take on a more dominant role, they've got no excuse for failing to step up so far. we're undermanned, and we're projected as a scrub team.

with a squad like this, i'm happy for any player to take their chance to become a star. that's what it's all about.

Davis on a good team is a 8 shot per game guy.
Davis on a pretty mediocre bad team is around 12 shots per game.
Davis on a horrible team would be 15-16 shots per game
Davis at 20 shots a game would be a joke. At 20 shots a game he taking at least 7 shots a game he has almost no shot to make.

The idea that well we don't have any great players means he can take all the shots is just crazy. He just isn't good enough to take a bunch of shots. Were talking about a player who offensive rating was 10 points less than the league average last year.

The stone reality is Glen Davis is a chucker. He is one of those guys at the YMCA who takes shots he can't make. Who thinks he is better than what he really is. He nearly led the team a year ago in shots per minute. That with Dwight Howard, Ryan Anderson, Jason Richardson on the team. Right now he taking 19 shots per game in 31 minutes. Kevin Durant only takes 16 shots a game and plays nearly 40 minutes a game. He is chucking them up faster than Carmelo Anthony. Kyrie Irving is pretty much a one man show in Cleveland and he getting them up faster than him.

You will notice almost all high volume shooters are guards or wing players. For you to take that many shots as a 4 or 5 is pretty crazy. Kevin Love was pretty much a one man show last year. He got up 20 shots a game but it took him 40 minutes. Glen Davis is getting nearly as many shots per game in 31 as Kevin Love did in 40. Love scored 24 ppg on 117 offensive rating. Glen Davis 16 ppg on a 88 offensive rating.

Were not the only team with a lot of role players. Chicago is similar but you don't see Boozer taking 20 plus shots a game. Kemba Walker is the only Bobcat right now that takes a lot of shots per game at 16 a game. Big Baby gets up a bunch of shots because he just a selfish chucker who thinks he is talented.

you don't understand - i don't disagree. but the fact is that nobody is stepping up to take the shots away from Baby. you think any decent scorer would defer to Baby the way a lot of others on this team have? Baby isn't taking the ball out of their hands, and he's often dumped the ball in the dwindling seconds of the shot clock.

like i said - let someone step up and take over and take those shots. i really don't care.

Bensational wrote:

Last Guardian wrote:Nicholson is inconsistent? And what is Baby? Consistent....ly bad and inefficient? Not sure I get that line of thinking. I guarantee Drew would do a lot better with Babys shot attempts than Baby does. He has a better shooting stroke, a big wingspan and better post moves.

If you want to harp on defense....well, we aren't winning anyway!

I like Nicholson and i'm all for him getting big minutes (or all the minutes) to learn on the job. Vaughn hasn't been giving him many minutes at all for whatever reason - and I don't think it's because of his offense or because he's young. Baby is setting the standard for the defensive end, and maybe once Nicholson shows that level of hustle/effort/performance then he'll see more minutes. I can only imagine that this is a lesson in patience, effort and doing what coach says for him.

Personally, I'd be happy to watch a Vucevic/Nicholson/Harkless/JJ/Moore lineup all season.

I'm fine with that. It is just that these excuses people are making for Davis are baffling. Nich is better offensively, there is no question. I don't care if we bring him along slowly, but no one should be trying to argue that fact. Almost everyone in the league is better than Baby offensively.

As for that lineup, I agree with the frontcourt. Would rather Nelson and Afflalo starting.

Playing backup minutes against backup players doesn't make someone superior offensively. If Nicholson played with the starters now, he would get worked on both sides of the floor and hurt the team. That is why he isn't playing much. He is not ready to play with the big dogs. Vaughn and about every coach knows this.

BadMofoPimp wrote:Playing backup minutes against backup players doesn't make someone superior offensively. If Nicholson played with the starters now, he would get worked on both sides of the floor and hurt the team. That is why he isn't playing much. He is not ready to play with the big dogs. Vaughn and about every coach knows this.

Shooting 7/21 and proving you are absolutely terrible offensively doesn't make someone superior offensively.

But whatever, at some point you have to realize when someone is just arguing for the hell of it and it really isn't worth going back and forth. Davis > Drew offensively, LOL.

BadMofoPimp wrote:Playing backup minutes against backup players doesn't make someone superior offensively. If Nicholson played with the starters now, he would get worked on both sides of the floor and hurt the team. That is why he isn't playing much. He is not ready to play with the big dogs. Vaughn and about every coach knows this.

no. But many players get better when they practice and play against better competition. And who cares if Nicholson and the team get worked right now, isnt this a tank year anyways? If Nicholson can cut his teeth, and the team can identify if he can get better and be NBA caliber PF or if he will be a backup/role player for a long time.

Things will likely settle down once Turkoglu and Nelson are back in the lineup. At least one could only hope that would be the case.

I'd feel more strongly about this if I wasn't okay with losing and accumulating ping pong balls but I still throw up a little bit in my mouth when I watch Davis try to do his best impression of Nowitzki. His efficiency is as disgusting as it was last year and I wasn't afraid to call him out then. Being a bad team isn't an excuse for him to take this many FGA. Coach needs to keep him and check and take shots away from him even in the absence of our primary ball handlers.

Bensational wrote:

richboy wrote:

Bensational wrote:someone has to take the shots. we've got a team full of role players and rookies, so ultimately, someone will have to step up. whilst i'd prefer JJ to be taking them, it doesn't seem to be in his nature. he's the consumate team player, looking for other people as much as his own shot. Afflalo seems reluctant to want to take over a game. Meer isn't healthy, nor is Hedo (although, he's just as bad as Baby). Vucevic could, but his numbers don't indicate a desire to take a game over, just a desire to play his role. Moore can score in bunches, but will his volume attempts really be that much better than Baby? Harkless and Nicholson are way too inconsistent.

Baby isn't ideal, but if we had a better option that was prepared to take on a more dominant role, they've got no excuse for failing to step up so far. we're undermanned, and we're projected as a scrub team.

with a squad like this, i'm happy for any player to take their chance to become a star. that's what it's all about.

Davis on a good team is a 8 shot per game guy.
Davis on a pretty mediocre bad team is around 12 shots per game.
Davis on a horrible team would be 15-16 shots per game
Davis at 20 shots a game would be a joke. At 20 shots a game he taking at least 7 shots a game he has almost no shot to make.

The idea that well we don't have any great players means he can take all the shots is just crazy. He just isn't good enough to take a bunch of shots. Were talking about a player who offensive rating was 10 points less than the league average last year.

The stone reality is Glen Davis is a chucker. He is one of those guys at the YMCA who takes shots he can't make. Who thinks he is better than what he really is. He nearly led the team a year ago in shots per minute. That with Dwight Howard, Ryan Anderson, Jason Richardson on the team. Right now he taking 19 shots per game in 31 minutes. Kevin Durant only takes 16 shots a game and plays nearly 40 minutes a game. He is chucking them up faster than Carmelo Anthony. Kyrie Irving is pretty much a one man show in Cleveland and he getting them up faster than him.

You will notice almost all high volume shooters are guards or wing players. For you to take that many shots as a 4 or 5 is pretty crazy. Kevin Love was pretty much a one man show last year. He got up 20 shots a game but it took him 40 minutes. Glen Davis is getting nearly as many shots per game in 31 as Kevin Love did in 40. Love scored 24 ppg on 117 offensive rating. Glen Davis 16 ppg on a 88 offensive rating.

Were not the only team with a lot of role players. Chicago is similar but you don't see Boozer taking 20 plus shots a game. Kemba Walker is the only Bobcat right now that takes a lot of shots per game at 16 a game. Big Baby gets up a bunch of shots because he just a selfish chucker who thinks he is talented.

you don't understand - i don't disagree. but the fact is that nobody is stepping up to take the shots away from Baby. you think any decent scorer would defer to Baby the way a lot of others on this team have? Baby isn't taking the ball out of their hands, and he's often dumped the ball in the dwindling seconds of the shot clock.

like i said - let someone step up and take over and take those shots. i really don't care.

To be fair, Davis' shooting percentage is just as terrible in other ranges of the shotclock (even worse in some of them).

This was the case last season as well. People said his FG% was being sabotaged by last-second prayers but that isn't exactly true. In no range of the shotclock is Baby even close to being efficient.

IMO his only redeeming qualities are his passion and hustle. But I'm not sure those can overcome the harm he causes the team on the offensive end. Even his defense seems to have taken a slide this year.

tiderulz wrote:

BadMofoPimp wrote:Playing backup minutes against backup players doesn't make someone superior offensively. If Nicholson played with the starters now, he would get worked on both sides of the floor and hurt the team. That is why he isn't playing much. He is not ready to play with the big dogs. Vaughn and about every coach knows this.

no. But many players get better when they practice and play against better competition. And who cares if Nicholson and the team get worked right now, isnt this a tank year anyways? If Nicholson can cut his teeth, and the team can identify if he can get better and be NBA caliber PF or if he will be a backup/role player for a long time.

Tell that to The Owner, Orlando Magic Organization, The Coaching Staff, the other players on the team and most of the fans that attend games at the Arena if they don't mind tanking and getting whupped by 20 points just so we can develop young players.

FYI. NBA Franchises are not in the league to lose money or put out a bad product. Especially, after the past 7 years of success.

This is the entertainment business.

How about we bump Nicholson from 10 to 20 minutes a game as a backup before we throw him into the fire as a 30+ minute starter? What's with the all or nothing approach? It's too early for him to start... the coach won't start him over a veteran like big baby, so you're better off campaigning for a more realistic scenario. He could easily take minutes away from McBob/Ayon and that will give us a chance to see where he's at when given consistent time. He can try to earn the starting spot from there.

OrlandO wrote:How about we bump Nicholson from 10 to 20 minutes a game as a backup before we throw him into the fire as a 30+ minute starter? What's with the all or nothing approach? It's too early for him to start... the coach won't start him over a veteran like big baby, so you're better off campaigning for a more realistic scenario. He could easily take minutes away from McBob/Ayon and that will give us a chance to see where he's at when given consistent time. He can try to earn the starting spot from there.

I like most on his board feel Nicholson needs more than the 9 min he got last night, he needs to be getting the 18-22 per IMO, I hope when/if Harrington comes back he doesnt take minutes away from AN.

I think the general consensus from the board is that if we are going to lose most nights lets at least see if we have a few young guys worth building the future with (Harkless, Nicholson, Vucci) and give them meaningful minutes to prove they belong in the league, I personally think Hark will be pretty good maybe a Granger ceiling, just seems to have a nose for the ball, not overly impressed with Vucci seems like he has the Kwame Brown hands condition.

It really is way too early in the season to really be arguing over how many minutes rookies should be getting.

Think about it. How would Henny be able to unload Ayon or McRoberts if they aren't playing because the rookies are thrown in prematurely. We are trying to build trade value for players Coaches are observing to decide if they will be kept. We know we are keeping Harkless and Nicholson.

If Nicholson is playing good and still getting 9mpg towards the 2nd half of the season, then this argument would be justified.

In my opinion, people are overreacting.

BadMofoPimp wrote:It really is way too early in the season to really be arguing over how many minutes rookies should be getting.

Think about it. How would Henny be able to unload Ayon or McRoberts if they aren't playing because the rookies are thrown in prematurely. We are trying to build trade value for players Coaches are observing to decide if they will be kept. We know we are keeping Harkless and Nicholson.

If Nicholson is playing good and still getting 9mpg towards the 2nd half of the season, then this argument would be justified.

In my opinion, people are overreacting.

I agree with you here. And I think it stems from the anti-SVG crowd's #1 complaint about him: his lack of playing young players. However since it has been so many years since we have had anyone young that is actually worthwhile guys have forgotten that young players still have to earn and fight for their minutes. I share the same feelings as you, nonissue right now and I expect the rotation to get shifted around closer to the TDL. If Harkless and Nicholson keep playing like they are, they will get increased mins eventually.