We're following the Spurs model

[VoiceOReason]

Wait. Didn't the Spurs only tank one season. I seriously doubt we are following the Spurs model per se.

Wait after that one season didn't they get back David Robinson and draft a all time great?

[purpleswordfish]

Alex Martins has gone on the record as saying the Magic are trying to build something similar to the Spurs model. Obviously, some in our front office actually used to work there, so there's that angle. The word Martins kept using when talking about it around the time of Hennigan/Vaughn's hiring was "sustainability." If you're looking for that in the NBA, there's no better model than the Spurs. The problem is getting the pieces to do that. I firmly believe the Magic have some really good pieces right now, but they have a long way to go.

The Spurs also have a world class shooting coach and arguably the best coach in the league. We're not quite there yet, either.

[Cammo101]

So all we need is a Tim Duncan? Simple enough.

[BadMofoPimp]

Wait. Didn't the Spurs only tank one season. I seriously doubt we are following the Spurs model per se.

Wait after that one season didn't they get back David Robinson and draft a all time great?

A team being arguably the worst team in the NBA for a 3 year period is following no model.

[majortom71]

Elfrid Payton is not Tony Parker

In some ways they are.... but if that's your only critique then I must have been money with all the others! Baaaayum!

Actually I did not review all of them, quickly saw Elf being equated to Parker and commented.
I can say that this Magic team is not close to a Spurs model. To me it's wishful thinking.
I'll go back later when I have more time and review thoroughly and give a quick review of it if you like.

[VoiceOReason]

Wait. Didn't the Spurs only tank one season. I seriously doubt we are following the Spurs model per se.

Wait after that one season didn't they get back David Robinson and draft a all time great?

A team being arguably the worst team in the NBA for a 3 year period is following no model.

A team that was in cap hell that was handcuffed by there super star and could only trade him a cpl places while having no other assets but what came from that trade and hasn't had a number one pick isn't allowed a few yrs to get back up and running?

I don't know what you call this model we are using but we have some pretty darn good prospects and some salary cap room....if your not good is that not all you can ask for? We are poised to improve this team wether that's through free agency or trade, which would make us good pretty quickly or through our guys growing together, which will probably take at least one more year.

I don't know what you want but this is just about how long it takes to start building something. Look around the league.

[Neato]

I think the comparison approach here might be a little off. I don't think direct player mappings make much sense if we are trying to compare ourselves to the spurs. let me rephrase...i don't think direct player mappings make much sense if we need to make a big stretch to accommodate some of those comparisons.

we need to be comparing how our team functions at the team level in comparison to how the spurs functions at the team level. so it's probably better to talk about 1) how our players complement each other and 2) what kind of system we are running on both ends of the floor. I'm not sure we have much of a team identity yet to be making comparisons to any model, especially when comparing against a model that is designed around the concept of a team game. this is probably the reason I'm interested in seeing what a new coach would do.

[BadMofoPimp]

Wait after that one season didn't they get back David Robinson and draft a all time great?

A team being arguably the worst team in the NBA for a 3 year period is following no model.

A team that was in cap hell that was handcuffed by there super star and could only trade him a cpl places while having no other assets but what came from that trade and hasn't had a number one pick isn't allowed a few yrs to get back up and running?

I don't know what you call this model we are using but we have some pretty darn good prospects and some salary cap room....if your not good is that not all you can ask for? We are poised to improve this team wether that's through free agency or trade, which would make us good pretty quickly or through our guys growing together, which will probably take at least one more year.

I don't know what you want but this is just about how long it takes to start building something. Look around the league.

I think we are passed how long it takes and should have shown improvement by now instead of free falling.

[gumbyr24]

I don't think Elf has a close enough ceiling to Parker, Offensively speaking. I think he'll likely be a poor mans Rondo.
The Dipo comp is probably the closest.. He needs to become our best player for us to be a good playoff team.

In a smart offense, I think A Gordon would look more like a rich mans DIaw. Both have hi IQ, both good interior passers, both can knock down a jump shot to keep the defense honest. The only difference Is Gordon is an elite athlete.

We aren't gonna find our 2 way star big man Tim Duncan.. But finding a defensive 4 to go with Vuc's offense would go along way to solving that.

[KingRobb02]

How is Aaron Gordon ever like Kahwai?? Dude is a 4... Comon guys... Gordon won't have the ball handling skills like Lenoard

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought kahwai was pretty raw offensively coming into the league also?

No. The thinking was that since he was mostly a post player in college, people knocked him for not really being able to score in iso situations on the wing. As you can see, the right team got him and that never became an issue. His rookie TS% was higher than any year in Tobias's career.

[VoiceOReason]

How is Aaron Gordon ever like Kahwai?? Dude is a 4... Comon guys... Gordon won't have the ball handling skills like Lenoard

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought kahwai was pretty raw offensively coming into the league also?

No. The thinking was that since he was mostly a post player in college, people knocked him for not really being able to score in iso situations on the wing. As you can see, the right team got him and that never became an issue. His rookie TS% was higher than any year in Tobias's career.

Like I said correct me if I am wrong I don't watch a ton of him....but no reason to really compare him to Tobias He wasn't even part of the discussion...

[Big A All Day]

So i was cut from the colonial basketball team but it's all good cuz I'm just following Michael Jordans model right? Unfortunately for me it didn't pan out and sorry to say, most times it doesn't.

[OrlChamps2030]

Frye could be our Tim Duncan

I remember he used to get Duncan comps in his pre-injury NYK days

[BadMofoPimp]

Even if a GM even attempts to mold his team after another teams particular model, it will never work out exactly the same. The coach and the players will NEVER be POP and the Spurs. The team will end up unique with variations regardless how hard you try.

[KingRobb02]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought kahwai was pretty raw offensively coming into the league also?

No. The thinking was that since he was mostly a post player in college, people knocked him for not really being able to score in iso situations on the wing. As you can see, the right team got him and that never became an issue. His rookie TS% was higher than any year in Tobias's career.

Like I said correct me if I am wrong I don't watch a ton of him....but no reason to really compare him to Tobias He wasn't even part of the discussion...

I just brought Tobias into the discussion since most people here think he is a good offensive player and I wanted a benchmark to show that Kawhi wasn't "raw" as a rookie. Don't be so sensitive.

[VoiceOReason]

No. The thinking was that since he was mostly a post player in college, people knocked him for not really being able to score in iso situations on the wing. As you can see, the right team got him and that never became an issue. His rookie TS% was higher than any year in Tobias's career.

Like I said correct me if I am wrong I don't watch a ton of him....but no reason to really compare him to Tobias He wasn't even part of the discussion...

I just brought Tobias into the discussion since most people here think he is a good offensive player and I wanted a benchmark to show that Kawhi wasn't "raw" as a rookie. Don't be so sensitive.

Lol not sensitive...my opinion on Tobias is a huge IDK so was just questioning what he had to do with it.... No sensitivity at all maybe you read it wrong....

[BadMofoPimp]

Modeling yourselves after the Spurs doesn't guarantee success. I bet teams can model themselves after the Spurs and still never sniff the playoffs. Wait, Magic may have just done that.

[ChiefWiggumz]

The comparisons are more comical than logical. I don't believe we are modeling our organization on the types of players they have.

But, we are trying to grow organically. Draft, develop, and sustain a cohesive roster.

I do believe we are just a couple of pieces away from a really good squad.

I think in the big picture, we are in the initial stage now, still. Which is the "growing pains" stage.

It's clear Vaughn is performing a function. That function is to basically lose, with a glimmer of grace. And to dangle and waive possible trade assets.

It's not the prettiest way to play, and sadly basketballs drafting system and financial standards, make this the best way to develop a team. Especially if you aren't the storied franchises that perennially attract superstars.

I think a lot of fans are getting antsy, and they have the right to question the front office. But, i'm pretty content with the way our team is building and the amount of assets we have.

I think this offseason will be the last step in this rebuilding phase. A very probable coaching change, a lottery pick, and assets and cap space will hopefully get this team to the playoffs next season.

[Skin]

I think the model thing is overrated...Spurs model is not just the players themselves but a combination of a lot of things...

So I have to disagree to your player mold model.

I think Magic honestly can have its own identity, which is Defense.

We drafted guys with a work ethic and DEFENSE...Look at every single one of them...

We do need a good coach. A strong character that convince the players to work hard and play defense. A strong Character that will impact the team's psychology and implement that toughness on players.

It's overrated if you think the message here is to find Player B that is the exact replica of Player A. But that's not what I was ever trying to say.. that's only what you're misinterpreting. Of course there are going to be differences and there is DEFINITELY going to be shortcomings if you're comparing a rookie to an established veteran all-star. Totally agree that it is a combination of a lot of things and not just finding players that fit a mold. You guys are too caught up into that. You can't just go shopping for an exact match. But what you can do is evaluate what's out there and find some core similarities and then say, "Hey, this is close. Let's go with this." or say, "No, that guy may be good, but not what we're looking for in trying to replicate this model".

I can easily imagine that being the case in us deciding to pass on Exum and Smart, while preferring Payton.

If we're trying to find a PG who has the makings of a Tony Parker, Payton was the closest thing to that (worthy of the draft value where we were picking) in the last draft. Smart is more of a combo guard impersonating a PG. His vision and passing is miles behind Payton. Exum was much of the same. He wanted to model his game after Kobe. I remember during the draft debates that our backcourt could shape up with Dipo staying at PG and Exum at SG. That is a different model. Dipo as our PG was experimental at best. We needed a true PG and Payton was the closest thing we could get our hands on that fit the way we wanted to model the Spurs in having a true PG. That's why I keep saying don't be too critical on the side by side player comparisons. Not everything will be the same, but there are core similarities and you can try to develop the other things that make the player more complete. For example, it's easier to improve your shooting than establishing a true PG mentality.

Along the way the Magic may very well develop their own identity. No 2 teams are exactly the same. What I'm saying is that I believe we're following a basic model, not an exact model as that is impossible. To critique your point about you believing that we're building something based on defense, wouldn't we have taken Smart then? Why did we sign Channing Frye and Ben Gordon? I think it's shortsighted to only look at recent draft picks and come to the conclusion that our model is build on defense. We drafted "No D" Nicholson as Henny's very first pick.

As for a coach... I think we need a teacher and JV seems more like a spiritual mentor than a basketball teacher.

[Skin]

Trying to be respectful here since I compared us to the 05 Heat about a month ago.

1. The Payton/Parker comparison doesn't work because Parker is a to notch scorer, and Payton probably won't ever get there. About the only similarity is their position.

2. I think a healthy Kawhi is one of the 5 most valuable pieces in the league. Even if Aaron develops his defensive versatility, he has a much longer way to go to be as good as Kawhi offensively.

3. I don't really think you can day Vucevic us better. He scores more, and grabs rebounds, but Splitter is a better passer and far superior defender. When evaluating Spurs, you have to remember that they all bought into having their minutes and shots cut so their numbers suffer as a result. I think Tiago is just as good of a scorer if given shots.

4. You make a Diaw /Harris comp and think you're selling Tobias short? If you think Harris will ever be able to guard the best player alive in the finals I understand. But I doubt that's what your original thinking was. Again, Bobo is a superior passer and defender. This seems to be the issue with most of these comps. Spurs (and even their little bro Hawks) have way too many guys who can pass, defend, and score efficiently while it seems like we have a few guys who can get theirs offensively if you give them the ball and a bit of time.

I like a lot of what you said here. Appreciate the maturity. But I want to clarify because I think you're misunderstanding some of it.

The player to player comparison isn't meant to be an exact match. In fact, I mentioned that Parker was a better scorer in the OP. Saying Payton probably won't ever get there is being a harder critic than the way I feel right now, but that's ok. Saying the only thing they have in common is their position is more false than true. I think they both have a good handle, good vision and passing ability, good at playing under control, can manage the pace of the game, can attack the rim, have a nice tear drop floater... I agree Parker is a much much better shooter, but I also give the edge to Payton as a defender. Bottom line is Payton is a rookie and has a lot of development in his game to reach Parker's level. However, his scouting report offers some nice qualities that I think would fit some of the same things the Spurs look for in a PG.

Gordon to Leonard comparisons existed during draft time. Leonard has come a long ways since his rookie season and I think Gordon will grow by leaps and bounds too. Again, I'm not comparing them to each other in their current states. It's more about fitting a mold of qualities they share. Long, athletic, wings, who could dribble, dunk and defend, but needed to prove they could develop a reliable shooting stroke.

As for the Tobias/Diaw comparison... I think you've convinced me. That is the one that I thought would draw more discussion when I first made the post. Defensively you're right and I didn't give that side of it enough thought. What was in my mind was their tweener similarities and how they board well and hustle. I did think I sold Harris short because I think he's a better scorer than Diaw, but I should've looked at the bigger picture. The more I think about it, the more I get confused on whether Tobias can have a future here. Maybe that is what also held back Henny from giving him an extension... since he doesn't really fit the Spurs model.

Appreciate the comments.