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1.Cousins
2.Gasol
3.Howard
4. Gobert
5. Deandre
6. Vucevic

I think he has a case for 5th or 6th. Maybe 7th if Whiteside can keep it up or 8th if Drummond takes a leap. But i think he's in the top 10 and will remain in the lower part of that range for the next few years.

I'll give him top 10ish, but he really needs to improve his defense. I want rebounding and defense from my center first, scoring is a bonus, a good bonus, but a bonus.

do you ever see him taking that leap into definite top 5?

I see Vuc as top 5 in scoring (he is actually 2nd among centers in PPG). If he increases his defense to top 15 or top 10 in the league he can easily be a top 5 center.

Right now he is like outside the top 10. There is no case that proves me wrong until the magic start winning.

Orlwillbeback wrote:Right now he is like outside the top 10. There is no case that proves me wrong until the magic start winning.

So which 10+ centers on winning teams would you take over Vuc?

I'm not disagreeing with the ranking as I think any ranking around top 10-ish seems reasonable but a number of the guys I would place ahead of him have not yet played on great teams (Cousins, Gobert, Drummond).

7-8

1. Cousins
2. Howard
3. Gasol
4. Drummond
5. Vucevic

That my list.

MagicFan101 wrote:

Orlwillbeback wrote:Right now he is like outside the top 10. There is no case that proves me wrong until the magic start winning.

So you are your 10+ centers on winning teams would you take over Vuc?

I'm not disagreeing with the ranking as I think any ranking around top 10-ish seems reasonable but a number of the guys I would place ahead of him have not yet played on great teams (Cousins, Gobert, Drummond).

Off the top of my head...

Jordan
Gasol
Gasol
Gortat
Howard
Bogut
Drummond
Monroe
Whiteside
Chandler
Jefferson

Im sure many will disagree with this list but all these guys are more proven than vucevic.

Until Vucevic improves his defense he is not even a top 10 center let alone top 5.

Orlwillbeback wrote:

MagicFan101 wrote:

Orlwillbeback wrote:Right now he is like outside the top 10. There is no case that proves me wrong until the magic start winning.

So you are your 10+ centers on winning teams would you take over Vuc?

I'm not disagreeing with the ranking as I think any ranking around top 10-ish seems reasonable but a number of the guys I would place ahead of him have not yet played on great teams (Cousins, Gobert, Drummond).

Off the top of my head...

Jordan
Gasol
Gasol
Gortat
Howard
Bogut
Drummond
Monroe
Whiteside
Chandler
Jefferson

Im sure many will disagree with this list but all these guys are more proven than vucevic.

Until Vucevic improves his defense he is not even a top 10 center let alone top 5.

He said winning team, yet you named Monroe, Whiteside, Big Al, and Drummond...

I think Vucevic is easily top 10. I'd say in the 6-7 range. He's top 3 in rebounding and 2nd in scoring among centers. Just because he doesn't average 5 blocks per game doesn't mean you leave him out of the conversation for best centers. My list are as follows.

1. Howard ( a healthy, engaged, and focused Dwight still eclipses a guy like Cousins. But does he ever get back to that?)

2. Cousins
3. Gasol
4. Jordan
5. Gobert
6. Vucevic
7. Gortat
8. Drummond
9. B. Lopez (when healthy)
10. R. Lopez.

Now let me explain my list. You'll notice my list are real centers and not pf's being forced to play it like Jefferson, or Al Horford for example. It was not a slight at their talent.

I left Whiteside off for one reason. His rep. He's only had one successful half season to his resume, he's more talented than a lot on the list, but I'll wait and see if he fulfills his promise or if he returns to the nerf head he's been known as and flames out.


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Howard
Gasol
Cousins
Gobert
Jordan
drummond
Whiteside
Vucevic

Alas, the annual thread underrating Vucevic is upon us. Top 10 easy. I got him 6th.

1. M. Gasol
2. D. Cousins
3. D. Howard
4. D. Jordan
5. A. Horford
6. N. Vucevic
7. A. Drummond
8. R. Gobert
9. B. Lopez
10. A. Jefferson

6-8 really just depends on how much you value the tradeoff of defense for offense from your center. I can't knock the argument that Gobert and Drummond fit the mold of the more modern NBA center in their ability to protect the rim an finish pick n' roll plays. But, Vucevic has proven to be one the most dynamic scoring centers in the NBA last year, and that's a healthy weapon to have in your arsenal. Especially on a team like ours where there is a dearth of shooting.

Jameerthefear wrote:

Orlwillbeback wrote:

MagicFan101 wrote:
So you are your 10+ centers on winning teams would you take over Vuc?

I'm not disagreeing with the ranking as I think any ranking around top 10-ish seems reasonable but a number of the guys I would place ahead of him have not yet played on great teams (Cousins, Gobert, Drummond).

Off the top of my head...

Jordan
Gasol
Gasol
Gortat
Howard
Bogut
Drummond
Monroe
Whiteside
Chandler
Jefferson

Im sure many will disagree with this list but all these guys are more proven than vucevic.

Until Vucevic improves his defense he is not even a top 10 center let alone top 5.

He said winning team, yet you named Monroe, Whiteside, Big Al, and Drummond...

Nor are Monroe or Jefferson plus defenders.

Cousins is a head case and an awful leader. Howard is mentally weak, has a limited offensive game, gets injured a lot, can't hit FTs, and is a poor leader. Jordan has a very limited offensive game, is mentally soft, and can't hit FTs. Drummond has a limited offensive game and can't hit FTs. None of those guys is currently playing anything like the kind of defense Dwight played in his DPOY days.

I'm not saying that Vooch is better than those guys, but I think the difference isn't as big as people think because they tend to ignore the warts on those other players.

Def Swami wrote:

Jameerthefear wrote:

Orlwillbeback wrote:Off the top of my head...

Jordan
Gasol
Gasol
Gortat
Howard
Bogut
Drummond
Monroe
Whiteside
Chandler
Jefferson

Im sure many will disagree with this list but all these guys are more proven than vucevic.

Until Vucevic improves his defense he is not even a top 10 center let alone top 5.

He said winning team, yet you named Monroe, Whiteside, Big Al, and Drummond...

Nor are Monroe or Jefferson plus defenders.

Vuc is more versatile on offense, too.

It's tough for me to call him a top-10 center when his defense isn't really good.

Like tiderulz said, I want rebounding and defense from my center first. He's got the rebounding down (and the scoring), and with Skiles as our new head coach, maybe Vuc can take a big step forward with his defense.

Orlwillbeback wrote:

MagicFan101 wrote:

Orlwillbeback wrote:Right now he is like outside the top 10. There is no case that proves me wrong until the magic start winning.

So you are your 10+ centers on winning teams would you take over Vuc?

I'm not disagreeing with the ranking as I think any ranking around top 10-ish seems reasonable but a number of the guys I would place ahead of him have not yet played on great teams (Cousins, Gobert, Drummond).

Off the top of my head...

Jordan
Bogut
Gortat
Chandler

You realise these teams win because of CP3/Griffin, Curry/Klay/Green, Wall/Beal, Dirk/Monta, and not so much because of the C's, right? You put those guys on this team, with JV and JB, and we're still a losing team.

Orlwillbeback wrote:
Drummond
Monroe
Whiteside
Jefferson

Im sure many will disagree with this list but all these guys are more proven than vucevic.

And you realise that these guys don't play on winning teams, right? One of them plays with Bosh/Deng/Wade/Dragic, too, and still can't win. And Monroe and Jefferson have never been known for their defense.

Orlwillbeback wrote:
Gasol
Gasol
Howard

Yeah, these guys I agree with.

Vuc definitely needs to show up on defense, especially as long as we don't have a defensive anchor at PF to partner with him. But he's been far more responsible for the majority of our wins than a lot of the other C's you mentioned.

I'd say a few have more value than him at the moment (Gobert hasn't been as productive but will almost certainly be more valuable next year). With that being said, I would only take a few ahead of him FOR SURE and that's with me not being crazy about his defense. Cousins is obviously better. Marc Gasol is obviously better but older. Jefferson, no. He's worse on defense. Jordan's defense alone almost makes him as valuable but his FT is arguably just as much as a negative. Same with Drummond, but his defense isn't up there yet so he's like a lesser Jordan but still young enough to obviously have a way bigger impact. Dwight when he's healthy is better but he's been so iffy lately that it's hard to really say.

Whiteside I need to see more than a year from.

I can only take three ahead of him comfortably.. the rest, I have to see what type of team they have around them.

I think we should reassess the desire to acquire a player to play at pf and "cover up" for vucs defensive shortcomings. Imagine drafting a young player, whose trying to make his way in the league and make a name for himself, and telling him that on offense he should just stand around and watch the center take midrange jumpers and then on defense you have basically watch his back. That would suck. I dont know if any player would be happy with that arrangement. It shouldnt be that hard in the first place.

If vuc doesnt vastly improve his defense this year, we absolutely need to trade him.