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The team is clearly improved from last year, but we are clearly missing something. To me, the players don't all fit together.

Oladipo and Payton don't fit together in the backcourt. Neither can really shoot at a high enough percentage to warrant the respect from opponents, allowing the other to drive and make plays. Also, neither draws contact to get to the line (though I think they both get hacked endlessly, but what do I know?), and they both have a very hard time finishing at the rim. I think one of them needs to either be coming off the bench or get traded with another piece to consolidate assets and upgrade a position. I think Payton and Fournier fit well together, while Napier and Oladipo do as well.

Furthermore, I think that Harris and Gordon fit perfectly with each other, but the problem then lies at center. If we do move forward with those two guys at the 3 and 4, Vucevic is not the right type of 5 to play next to them in my opinion. I think someone like an Ezeli in free agency is a better fit because he's quicker and a better individual defender as well as help defender due to his quickness and timing.

Finally, we come to Mario Hezonja. While it's way too early to know what this kid is as a basketball player, if we are moving forward with Oladipo, Fournier, Harris, and Gordon, I don't see him getting many minutes as of now. Personally, I think we'd be foolish to dump him this early, but if the right trade came along and it improves your outlook both now and in the future, Hennigan may have to pull the trigger.

With all of that said, who do you think is the odd man out? Is it Vučević? Is it one of the guards? Maybe the wings?

My vote goes to Vučević AND either of the guards. I like what Harris and Gordon bring enough to want to move forward with them starting, which means we would need a more defensive minded center. For the time being, we have Dedmon, while we can also pursue Ezeli in free agency or use Vucevic as trade bait. As for the guards, right now I'd have to go with Oladipo. Not because I like Payton more, but because I like Fournier more. I think a lineup of Payton and Fournier could be great. However, I don't think you trade Oladipo. I think he needs to be the 6th man backing up the 1 and the 2. Finally, like I said earlier, you don't trade Hezonja this early.

Orlando must get better at starting PF. Either Oladipo or Fournier is the future at SG: only one and not both. One of these two needs to be shipped. So together I conclude that some sort of trade must be made with either Oladipo or Fournier plus Gordon with a future 1st is a path to get a Cousins type. Let's call it Oladipo, as the Magic need scoring. And yes I believe that Cousins can play PF and would complement Vučević.

Oladipo and Gordon plus the Magic's 2016 1st for Cousins seems fair to me.

Resultant team:
Payton/Napier/Watson
Fournier/Hezonja
Harris/Marble
Cousins/Frye/Nicholson
Vučević/Smith/Dedmon

This is a balanced, deep team that can win an NBA title.

..

I love cousins as a player, but he seems way too emotionally unstable out there to be relied upon as your franchise player. Hopefully he can turn that corner like z-bo did. Also, I think it will take a lot more for Vlade to trade DMC. Oladipo, Vucevic, and Gordon/Mario plus a pick MIGHT get it done.

As of right now, I hold off on any deal, Oladipo is obviously the target of everyone's ire, because he's not playing well atm. Fournier is playing phenomenal. It's a mirror image of November last season. By the end of last season Oladipo had been the best player on the team after the all star break. I expect both players to follow a similar path this year, with Oladipos game getting on track and Fournier coming back down to earth. I don't think Oladipo being a reserve is a bad idea for a while though. I also agree this team needs a scorer badly. Tobias could have been that guy but he clearly isn't taking steps in that direction.


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Tough question since many are interchangeable. It would depend on what you want to do at the SG and SF spot. Let's say you want shooting there (Fourny and Mario), then Elf works and you would probably want to move Tobias and/or Vuc for defense. Let's say you want defense there (Dipo and AG), I'm not sure Elf works with that group.

That being said, I can't see moving Elf or AG for sure unless we're getting a star in return. I like the competitiveness they bring.

thelead wrote:Tough question since many are interchangeable. It would depend on what you want to do at the SG and SF spot. Let's say you want shooting there (Fourny and Mario), then Elf works and you would probably want to move Tobias and/or Vuc for defense. Let's say you want defense there (Dipo and AG), I'm not sure Elf works with that group.

That being said, I can't see moving Elf or AG for sure unless we're getting a star in return. I like the competitiveness they bring.

Elf,fournier,Gordon,Harris,vucevic would be a Good starting Group.
I would go with mario as 6th man.he is a skilled Shooter and was drafted for our shooting woes so give him the opportunity to shoot even if he is not good at Defense.
I also think a guy like kelly olynyk could bring to the magic game from the bench as he is very gifted offensively.very mobile for a Seven footer and plays the 4 and 5.a clear upgrade over frye and dedmon.
Implant gordon as a stopper in the starting five with his defensive Skills.
From the bench we really players who get the ball in the basket.
I would trade oladipo and keep harris.harris is more talented as a scorer.

I'm in the boat that says it's still way way way too early to trade any of our young guys we're probably at least a year away from being able to .truly evaluate this team what we need and the landscape and future free agency in terms of what we can get take into account the inflating salary cap and the decisions get even harder. I do see great improvements from behind the three-point line for Mr Elfred Payton Mr Victor Oladipo and Mr Aaron Gordon to an extent I think that after another season another summer and another training camp this ball club is going to really be able to whip it around the perimeter mario Hezonja will be that much more informed Shabazz Napier will be that much more confident in his role on our team knowing what kind of minutes he'll receive (a problem in Miami) . Nick Vucevic is going to be more confident and his defense in the postand passing out of it and out of the post so hopefully we can play a little bit more inside out basketball but we really need to get Aaron Gordon and Mari has on you / to cut to the basket! this needs to be something more consistent. we come off these screens we have all these athletes ,guys aren't cutting to the basket nearly enough we need to pound peoples faces in whats the point of athleticism if you're going to spend it all the time dancing around and never getting the ball where it should go, into the paint. Its only then that things will really start to open up for our 3 point shooters.

Oladipo is 28% beyond the line this season and 32% in his career. I don't think he will improve much, his ceiling is 35% and even that is very doubtful.

And yet they run many actions for Vic to shoot beyond the arc. That's pointless. Same goes for Harris.

Maybe it's best for you guys and best for Mario to trade him away. It is obvious Skilles hasn't got a clue how to utilize his strenghts. He's a scorer and shooter, yet Skilles made him afraid to shoot because he gets benched if he misses. Like yesterday and a few games before this one.

He won't become a player he could be in this system and one day you'll ask yourself what went wrong with him. Well, everything and nothing at the same time.

We'll see if anything changes during the season, but as of now, Skilles hasn't convinced me a bit he's capable of doing that.

Von Bismarck wrote:Oladipo is 28% beyond the line this season and 32% in his career. I don't think he will improve much, his ceiling is 35% and even that is very doubtful.

And yet they run many actions for Vic to shoot beyond the arc. That's pointless. Same goes for Harris.

Maybe it's best for you guys and best for Mario to trade him away. It is obvious Skilles hasn't got a clue how to utilize his strenghts. He's a scorer and shooter, yet Skilles made him afraid to shoot because he gets benched if he misses. Like yesterday and a few games before this one.

He won't become a player he could be in this system and one day you'll ask yourself what went wrong with him. Well, everything and nothing at the same time.

We'll see if anything changes during the season, but as of now, Skilles hasn't convinced me a bit he's capable of doing that.

Orlando isnt trading the #5 pick Mario 14 games into his rookie season.

Went with Harris. To me he's the most "meh" player of the group and he's also the one most in the way of AG and Hezonja's development. Shocked to see Victor in the lead. Even if his offense only gets back to past seasons, his impact on defense has gone up dramatically to where he'd be a high impact player. He also plays with the most heart hustle and effort of anyone on the team.

Harris is a below average outside shooter, not a good facilitator, a below average ball handler, an average defender and his scoring ability doesn't quite move the needle enough to make up for it IMO.

MagicStarwipe wrote:Went with Harris. To me he's the most "meh" player of the group and he's also the one most in the way of AG and Hezonja's development. Shocked to see Victor in the lead. Even if his offense only gets back to past seasons, his impact on defense has gone up dramatically to where he'd be a high impact player. He also plays with the most heart hustle and effort of anyone on the team.

Harris is a below average outside shooter, not a good facilitator, a below average ball handler, an average defender and his scoring ability doesn't quite move the needle enough to make up for it IMO.

Elf and dipo don t fit together.harris is more skilled offensively than dipo.

tiderulz wrote:Orlando isnt trading the #5 pick Mario 14 games into his rookie season.

I'm not saying he should be traded right now, but at the end of the season if this continues.

If this continues throughout the season, let's be honest; Mario in a system like this, where he has no actions for himself, where he serves as a decoy and where he constantly gets benched for minor mistakes, thus completely loses his confidence - brings nothing to Magic besides energy and some 3's here and then, also Magic brings nothing to him.

He, for sure, would be highly valuable to many teams out there which would know how to utilize his talents, where he could develop into a borderline All-Star or even something more.

Time will tell if I'm right or not, but this looks disastrous for both Hezonja and Gordon as of now.

Its tough to answer because it depends who Im trading for.
After last night ineraction its hard to see us trading for Boogie that many wanted anyway its still in imaginary world
but if he ever become aviable we would have one of the best packages as Divac knows both Vuc and Hezonja (also he is having nice shotblockers WCS or Koufos to pair them with Vuc)yeah its not enough but I guess that would be starting template for a package.

another imaginary scenario player Paul George
Id give them both Harris and Dipo (and Im big Dipo fan despite all the hate I ve seen since that garbage thread about Dipo being a cancer)but again they would ask for Dipo in the 1st place its abvious for everybody I guess

If Id go for freakin Damian Sub Zero Lillard
Obviously Id parth with Payton and whoever they want ( not named Vuc In that situation obviously as I wouldnt want to play with Dedmon as my starting center)


so depending on who are we getting none is actually safe with me

I have to agree though, Mario's confidence is shattered right now.

I'd like to see AG in the starting lineup first. Maybe I'm just hyping the idea up in my head, but as long as we're struggling I will want to see it. I don't care if his jumper is inconsistent because I don't think it can get worse than watching dipo shoot 16% on threes and 29% on layups in quarters 2 to 4. AG can give us the defense Dipo provides (and I think where we need it more at SF/PF) without the missed layups and botched transition plays, and he'll miss less threes because he'll take less of them. He makes impact plays on both ends and it seems to get us going. He could be the guy who can keep the team glued together beyond the first quarter. Maybe Dipo can excel as a sixth man?

I see Payton, Hezonja, and Gordon as the crux of this team going forward. Vucevic is still the best player on the team, but not playing in 2 consecutive 4th quarters is concerning. Unless we find the right fit at PF next to Vucevic, I think he'll eventually be odd man out if the opportunity presents itself. It's just so hard to find an upgrade available over Vucevic. For all his deficiencies on defense, he's still the most skilled offensive player on the team.

That brings us to Harris and Oladipo. Both are playing below expectations, but I think a lot of that has to do with adjusting to playing within a defined system. I'm glad that Skiles is teaching a more ball movement-oriented offense, but it isn't all that dynamic. There are no counter plays once a play breaks down. There are rarely specific plays ran for Oladipo or Harris that play to their strengths, whether it be getting Oladipo in high pick n' roll and spreading the floor or Harris on the move in the post. If the Magic are going to go in this current direction, we're either going to have to be patient with them and hope they come along eventually and hope Skiles gets more creative. Or as I believe may be the case come December, I think both could be on the trade block. However, if Oladipo's play doesn't improve, his trade value is going to be pretty low. Harris at least has some decent games and value as a stretch 4.

Summary: Likelihood of being traded Harris > Vucevic > Oladipo > Fournier > Payton > Gordon > Hezonja

I wouldn't trade anyone yet.

Let this team create an identity first

It's becoming more and more apparent that we may have too many good players and not enough great players. We definitely need to consolidate assets for a star/superstar player but then you ask yourself who to trade and for who? Henry is smart and is simply playing the waiting game and is seeing how events unfold in certain situations and how certain players on our roster grow (Fournier).

I think any trade we do will include Harris for salary purposes if were trading for an established on contract star, but along with Harris I think Dipo will be the odd man out after all is said and done. This is also coming from a huge Tobias supporter/Dipo fan.

Henny will defiantly not trade Hezonja in any scenario unless were trading for a top 5 talent in the league and completely disagree with the presumptions that Mario's confidence is "shattered" lmao. We are talking about the same Mario that has been playing professional basketball since a teenager and the same Mario that every scout in the nation said his best attribute was his confidence. Please, it will take a lot more then a few games to shatter Mario's confidence, dude is still learning the ropes and isn't shy to let it fly in anyones face. Give him time as with any foreign rookie, see how long it took Fournier to blossom?

Players I would target and trade to get.

Damian Lillard (Payton + Harris + filler (Nicholson/Marble/Dedmon) + picks)
Paul George (Dipo + Harris + filler (Nicholson/Marble/Dedmon) + picks)
Demarcus Cousins (Harris + Dipo + filler (Nicholson/Marble/Dedmon) + picks)
Carmelo Anthony (CALL ME CRAZY) (Harris + filler (Nicholson/Marble/Dedmon) + picks)
Kenneth Faried + Will Barton + 2nd (Harris + filler (Nicholson/Marble)
Serge Ibaka + Singler (GULP -0.4 PER 5 YR CONTRACT) (If KD leaves) (Harris + filler (Nicholson/Marble) + picks)
Derrick Favors (THE HOUSE) (Payton OR Dipo + Harris OR Gordon + filler (Nicholson/Marble/Dedmon) + picks)

Players I would target if Frye was involved or could get at the cost of not trading any major assets.

- M Morris
- T Jones
- Nene
- P Patterson
- Gibson/Gasol
- Z Randolph


Players I wouldn't trade for.

- N Noel
- D Derozan

Voted Harris.


OP wants to trade Vooch,

Good GM does not trade players when their value is at the lowest point. So discussion could be had that Fournier might be the best to be included.

However, it is not about who do we trade of our team, but who do we trade them for?

There's always a possibility DMC wants out and we should go for that trade if the opportunity presents itself. Doesn't really matter which one of our assets we trade for him, none of them is a surefire superstar as of yet.