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I realize a lot of you don't want to hear this, but I'm guessing this is on a lot of our minds...We have some BIG TIME problems!
Allow me to consolidate various posts....

#1 Most of us do not like the head coach, Skiles. He's stubborn, hypocritical, and is failing to develop our young talent
#2 Our PG Payton has a miserable outside shot and his energy level fluctuates...the outside shot issue is a huge problem
#3 Handsomely paid Harris has regressed this year, so it seems. Not budding into a Star like most felt he could.
#4 Most of us feel we can never be a Championship team with Vucevic at center. His defense, overall, is poor and seems
to be a finesse-type center relying on a distant 2 point shot.
#5 Once again, this season, like the last three, we have an obvious void of a defensive PF..no interior beast to intimidate.
#6 Frye is mostly a "starting" non-factor and mostly a 3 pt. catapault launcher
#7 Oladipo shot still needs work and he cannot finish at the rim, more often than not.
#8 Hezonja and Gordon are not playing enough...again, perhaps the wrong coach
#9 There must be friction within the management ranks..Ive read that Hennigan really did not want Skiles.
# 10 I'm sure there are more issues with this team...locker room issues with the coach/intimidation?

So it seems we are a LONG WAY from ever being serious contenders.

You forgot the biggest problem of them all.

1) Impatient Fans.

orthoman wrote:I realize a lot of you don't want to hear this, but I'm guessing this is on a lot of our minds...We have some BIG TIME problems!
Allow me to consolidate various posts....

#1 Most of us do not like the head coach, Skiles. He's stubborn, hypocritical, and is failing to develop our young talent
#2 Our PG Payton has a miserable outside shot and his energy level fluctuates...the outside shot issue is a huge problem
#3 Handsomely paid Harris has regressed this year, so it seems. Not budding into a Star like most felt he could.
#4 Most of us feel we can never be a Championship team with Vucevic at center. His defense, overall, is poor and seems
to be a finesse-type center relying on a distant 2 point shot.
#5 Once again, this season, like the last three, we have an obvious void of a defensive PF..no interior beast to intimidate.
#6 Frye is mostly a "starting" non-factor and mostly a 3 pt. catapault launcher
#7 Oladipo shot still needs work and he cannot finish at the rim, more often than not.
#8 Hezonja and Gordon are not playing enough...again, perhaps the wrong coach
#9 There must be friction within the management ranks..Ive read that Hennigan really did not want Skiles.
# 10 I'm sure there are more issues with this team...locker room issues with the coach/intimidation?

So it seems we are a LONG WAY from ever being serious contenders.

#1 We are barely more than half way through his first season. I don't know that he will end up being a success....but it is way too soon to say he isn't developing talent.
#2 This isn't new information. We knew this about his going in. I don't see the issue being a lack of a Payton jump shot...I see it being a lack consistent shooters surrounding him.
#3 Definitely regressed but I think the board was pretty split on his future potential. A lot of us expected this. I think Henny shops Harris hard.
#4 We can't be a championship team with Vuc at Center until we have an elite player on the roster. We also can't be a championship team with any other current player until we have an elite player on the roster. Vuc is not a negative for this team in any way.
#5 We tried to get one in the offseason, we just didn't get it done. It isn't like they are easy to come by and we are just failing foolishly to get one.
#6 He is starting because of the other players' inability to knock down outside shots. Granted, Frye isn't exactly doing it either.
#7 Dipo still needs work...but you can see the improvement. I think he still has a lot of room to improve. He won't be the stud I originally thought he would be...but I can see a top tier 3rd option on a contending team or a Manu Ginobili type of role, coming off the bench for a contending team.
#8 Throwing raw players in to the fire isn't always the answer. If you have Gordon & Hezonja on a top tier team...then you can put them in for a lot of minutes because they will learn how to do things the right way. We are still a team that makes stupid plays when our best guys are on the floor. You don't want raw talent picking up bad habits before they can form good ones.
#9 Seems like BS. I doubt Hennigan brings in a coach he doesn't want.
#10 Why? Because you don't like Skiles?

Yes, we are a long way from being contenders. Everyone should have expected that.

BadMofoPimp wrote:You forgot the biggest problem of them all.

1) Impatient Fans.

2) Fans unwilling to look at their own team critically and admit existence of issues

LBPTarHeel27 wrote:Yes, we are a long way from being contenders. Everyone should have expected that.

Yeah, everyone expected us to go from 25 to contending with the 2nd youngest team in the league. And when you consider CJ Watson hasn't played most of the year and Frye has been worthless, it makes our age that much more pronounced. You don't win in the NBA without experience. It will come, however.

OrlDave wrote:

LBPTarHeel27 wrote:Yes, we are a long way from being contenders. Everyone should have expected that.

Yeah, everyone expected us to go from 25 to contending with the 2nd youngest team in the league. And when you consider CJ Watson hasn't played most of the year and Frye has been worthless, it makes our age that much more pronounced. You don't win in the NBA without experience. It will come, however.

Young philly and milawaukee beat us though.. experience is definitely a valid excuse but it shouldnt completely excuse this massive slide as of late

Zmill wrote:

OrlDave wrote:

LBPTarHeel27 wrote:Yes, we are a long way from being contenders. Everyone should have expected that.

Yeah, everyone expected us to go from 25 to contending with the 2nd youngest team in the league. And when you consider CJ Watson hasn't played most of the year and Frye has been worthless, it makes our age that much more pronounced. You don't win in the NBA without experience. It will come, however.

Young philly and milawaukee beat us though.. experience is definitely a valid excuse but it shouldnt completely excuse this massive slide as of late

Well the Milwaukee game was fine, I mean we competed at least. The Philly game I completely agree with, however. That game was an absolute travesty. Nobody wanted to play or be there. So yes that game was concerning to be sure.

Not sure I agree that most fans agree with your points (at least that's why you phrased many of them). I know I disagree with a number of them. I largely think Magic fans need to just grind this slump out and wait to see if the team can rebound. We've had A LOT of close losses due to inexperience.

This is exactly what I expected coming into this season. We'd have good runs, and we'd have bad runs. Granted I don't think I foresaw a run quite this bad in the middle of the season, but I also didn't see us going 19-13 to start the season. If the Magic can win a few games in a row they're right back to .500. It's largely a confidence issue right now, which is common for young teams.

Most fans were predicting low-mid 30s for wins this year. The most optimistic of us were in the upper 30s to low 40s.

tiderulz wrote:

BadMofoPimp wrote:You forgot the biggest problem of them all.

1) Impatient Fans.

2) Fans unwilling to look at their own team critically and admit existence of issues

Pfft. I am critical all the time about this team.

But, at least I am realistic in acknowledging that they are Young, impressionable and need lots of time as in years to develop.

Zmill wrote:

OrlDave wrote:

LBPTarHeel27 wrote:Yes, we are a long way from being contenders. Everyone should have expected that.

Yeah, everyone expected us to go from 25 to contending with the 2nd youngest team in the league. And when you consider CJ Watson hasn't played most of the year and Frye has been worthless, it makes our age that much more pronounced. You don't win in the NBA without experience. It will come, however.

Young philly and milawaukee beat us though.. experience is definitely a valid excuse but it shouldnt completely excuse this massive slide as of late

can't underestimate the effect of the trip to London for a young team still getting its legs...forced Magic to begin the year with two sets of back to backs in one week, with 3 of 4 of those games on the road, then traveled overseas and came back to US to go back on the road

UCFJayBird wrote:Not sure I agree that most fans agree with your points (at least that's why you phrased many of them). I know I disagree with a number of them. I largely think Magic fans need to just grind this slump out and wait to see if the team can rebound. We've had A LOT of close losses due to inexperience.

This is exactly what I expected coming into this season. We'd have good runs, and we'd have bad runs. Granted I don't think I foresaw a run quite this bad in the middle of the season, but I also didn't see us going 19-13 to start the season. If the Magic can win a few games in a row they're right back to .500. It's largely a confidence issue right now, which is common for young teams.

Most fans were predicting low-mid 30s for wins this year. The most optimistic of us were in the upper 30s to low 40s.

to me, it isnt the losses, its the way we are losing. I could handle getting blown out at the beginning of the, but fighting, getting better, a few wins here, a few more there, players looking solid in their roles.

But we need shooting but dont put the shooters our there. We need defense, but keep defenders on the bench. We play certain players for entire halves, mistakes or not while yanking other players after 1 mistake. I cant honestly say anyone has improved from last year to this year, except maybe Fournier and that might only be because of more playing time. To be honest, most of our players look worse and seem to be producing worse. Our defensive stats are better, but not sure if that is because we are also one of the slowest teams while being one of the youngest. we have little to no offensive scheme. And again, we arent getting visibly better where i feel comfortable going into the 2nd half of the year. We are playing more like a team playing for a lottery pick

BadMofoPimp wrote:

tiderulz wrote:

BadMofoPimp wrote:You forgot the biggest problem of them all.

1) Impatient Fans.

2) Fans unwilling to look at their own team critically and admit existence of issues

Pfft. I am critical all the time about this team.

But, at least I am realistic in acknowledging that they are Young, impressionable and need lots of time as in years to develop.

not everyone is willing to look critically at the team.

and no, teams do not always need "years" to develop. Maybe into a final product, but players can develop and start producing within 1-2 years. maybe not every single player, but not every single player needs their entire rookie contract to develop either.

ezzzp wrote:

Zmill wrote:

OrlDave wrote:
Yeah, everyone expected us to go from 25 to contending with the 2nd youngest team in the league. And when you consider CJ Watson hasn't played most of the year and Frye has been worthless, it makes our age that much more pronounced. You don't win in the NBA without experience. It will come, however.

Young philly and milawaukee beat us though.. experience is definitely a valid excuse but it shouldnt completely excuse this massive slide as of late

can't underestimate the effect of the trip to London for a young team still getting its legs...forced Magic to begin the year with two sets of back to backs in one week, with 3 of 4 of those games on the road, then traveled overseas and came back to US to go back on the road

should have less of an effect on a young team such as ours vs an older team that needs that rest time.

tiderulz wrote:

ezzzp wrote:

Zmill wrote:
Young philly and milawaukee beat us though.. experience is definitely a valid excuse but it shouldnt completely excuse this massive slide as of late

can't underestimate the effect of the trip to London for a young team still getting its legs...forced Magic to begin the year with two sets of back to backs in one week, with 3 of 4 of those games on the road, then traveled overseas and came back to US to go back on the road

should have less of an effect on a young team such as ours vs an older team that needs that rest time.

I disagree, the physical part is hard too - but that's not what I'm talking about. The mental part, losing their rhythm and routine...its the type of scenario where a young team either bonds or creates fissures in team chemistry

BadMofoPimp wrote:You forgot the biggest problem of them all.

1) Impatient Fans.

This. A strong start to this season has caused fans to completely lose their minds and give up on the rebuild. These things take time, and I like the talent we have accrued. We aren't a finished product and some moves still need to be made, but the sky is not yet falling.

tiderulz wrote:

BadMofoPimp wrote:You forgot the biggest problem of them all.

1) Impatient Fans.

2) Fans unwilling to look at their own team critically and admit existence of issues

3) Lack of Nicholson.....

I'll see myself out

ezzzp wrote:

Zmill wrote:

OrlDave wrote:
Yeah, everyone expected us to go from 25 to contending with the 2nd youngest team in the league. And when you consider CJ Watson hasn't played most of the year and Frye has been worthless, it makes our age that much more pronounced. You don't win in the NBA without experience. It will come, however.

Young philly and milawaukee beat us though.. experience is definitely a valid excuse but it shouldnt completely excuse this massive slide as of late

can't underestimate the effect of the trip to London for a young team still getting its legs...forced Magic to begin the year with two sets of back to backs in one week, with 3 of 4 of those games on the road, then traveled overseas and came back to US to go back on the road

And customs who check everything was stressful for young team and maybe and perhaps english english not american english too

zelenooq wrote:

ezzzp wrote:

Zmill wrote:
Young philly and milawaukee beat us though.. experience is definitely a valid excuse but it shouldnt completely excuse this massive slide as of late

can't underestimate the effect of the trip to London for a young team still getting its legs...forced Magic to begin the year with two sets of back to backs in one week, with 3 of 4 of those games on the road, then traveled overseas and came back to US to go back on the road

And customs who check everything was stressful for young team and maybe and perhaps english english not american english too

And don't even get me started on their ketchup!!!! Love their food but ketchup there's way different than Heinz

Over reacting!!! Skiles will turn this team around

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

orthoman wrote:I realize a lot of you don't want to hear this, but I'm guessing this is on a lot of our minds...We have some BIG TIME problems!
Allow me to consolidate various posts....

#1 Most of us do not like the head coach, Skiles. He's stubborn, hypocritical, and is failing to develop our young talent
#2 Our PG Payton has a miserable outside shot and his energy level fluctuates...the outside shot issue is a huge problem
#3 Handsomely paid Harris has regressed this year, so it seems. Not budding into a Star like most felt he could.
#4 Most of us feel we can never be a Championship team with Vucevic at center. His defense, overall, is poor and seems
to be a finesse-type center relying on a distant 2 point shot.
#5 Once again, this season, like the last three, we have an obvious void of a defensive PF..no interior beast to intimidate.
#6 Frye is mostly a "starting" non-factor and mostly a 3 pt. catapault launcher
#7 Oladipo shot still needs work and he cannot finish at the rim, more often than not.
#8 Hezonja and Gordon are not playing enough...again, perhaps the wrong coach
#9 There must be friction within the management ranks..Ive read that Hennigan really did not want Skiles.
# 10 I'm sure there are more issues with this team...locker room issues with the coach/intimidation?

So it seems we are a LONG WAY from ever being serious contenders.

#1 Far too early to say. He is stubborn yes, but he's had 40 games. Give him a chance. He's changed the starting lineup a bunch, and pulled the PR no-no of benching Oladipo when he was playing bad. He's trying to find the right combos.
#2 Agreed
#3 Harris is playing efficient ball. His USG% is at a career low. Need to get the SF involved more on offense. Not all on him for that. His job is to play off ball in this offense.
#4 Couldn't agree more. Would be a great bench player like Kanter, not a franchise changer.
#5 How many Ibakas/Davis/Boshs are there in the NBA? Pickings are slim. Cant rely on that to fix the holes on our D.
#6 Frye has the best Net RTG on the team. We play better when he's on the floor. It's a fact and the Frye effect is real.
#7 Agreed. Still super inconsistent and needs to get to the FT line.
#8 Gordon is getting the majority of the PF minutes now. Hezonja played well the other night and has 2 SGs in front of him. And Harris at SF. His time will come.
#9 Gotta agree here, not sure it will come to a head. Skiles is not THE problem, we are far away from blaming a coach for our team not being good.
#10 Doubt it. These sorts of rationalizations come up from fans whenever teams struggle hard. Maybe we just need to accept the fact that we aren't that good instead of thinking it's all psychological or political.