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I see a lot of people claim our player's have a Loser's mentality due to years of losing and playing under JV... But they never really mention names. Even Skiles has alluded to this by saying players "have losses behind them". Those of who you see losers on this team, who are you referring to?

Fournier, EP, and AG only played under JV for half a season.

Mario.. He's a rookie and he's far from a loser from what I've seen.

Oladipo.. He's become a whipping boy around here but I don't buy him being a loser for a minute. He goes hard on offense and always steps up on defense. He leaves it all on the floor every game. I don't think anyone can question his effort.

This leaves.. Tobias and Vucevic. Both seem to have on-and-off effort and in Vucevic's case he seems to shy away when the game gets physical. Both are crucial pieces to this team. Are they the losers?


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Vuc is a soft vagina

Yup. Harris and Vucevic have been here the longest. I think the shoe fits

We were not losers when we were five or six games over the 50%?

To me is only about players not that good and a team built in a terrible way(guards with terrible hands and front court that can not defend,the opposite of what today nba is all about)

when a team struggle are always,in any sport, questioned the mentality or the coach,is a classic.

This thread will end well.

No player hates another player, but it's clear that selfish agendas (be it next contract, minutes, offensive touches, whatever) have ruined the on-court product. I mean you folks are all watching, do they look like a cohesive 5-man unit? It's night and day from now and back in late-November, early-December.

Adam is in the locker room, I assume every home game at least, so I'll go with his opinion on this.

I personally think we have some losers on the team who are selfish and feel like if they were getting shots and more minutes we wouldn't be losing. Mentally I think this is on Oladipo/Harris/Fournier and physically I think Vuc and Payton are killing us in their own ways.

rcklsscognition wrote:

No player hates another player, but it's clear that selfish agendas (be it next contract, minutes, offensive touches, whatever) have ruined the on-court product. I mean you folks are all watching, do they look like a cohesive 5-man unit? It's night and day from now and back in late-November, early-December.

Adam is in the locker room, I assume every home game at least, so I'll go with his opinion on this.

I personally think we have some losers on the team who are selfish and feel like if they were getting shots and more minutes we wouldn't be losing. Mentally I think this is on Oladipo/Harris/Fournier and physically I think Vuc and Payton are killing us in their own ways.

Look at the guys who will not pass the ball when a team mate is wide open. We know Mario, Tobias, Vuc, EP will always pass the ball. Dipo does not have the instincts. I believe Fournier is the main culprit being in a contract year. I'm sure there are others but yes ball movement stopped a long time ago. Something has to happen soon or more people will be tuning out. I was glued to every game this year win or lose because I felt we were always in the game. Now I'm checking in once in a while to catch glimpses of the game.

Magic fans also have loser mentality

i think its primarily vucevic

eyriq wrote:Yup. Harris and Vucevic have been here the longest. I think the shoe fits

Nicholson's been here the longest

But he doesn't see playing time anymore

I think it's mostly unfitting pieces. A center that shies from physical play and guards that can't shoot.
Dipo might have turned a corner, but he has fulled everyone before. But he's a very ball dominant SG that plays next to a PG that's a liability without the ball (some might say even with a ball). The fit just isn't there.
I'd trade Fournier for a PG a trade deadline and explore if there's any market for Vucevic, preferably one where a bruising defending center comes back, preferably a veteran. Somoene like Gortat would really fit. Not sure there's a trade woth Wizards that would work for both teams though.
If there's fire on the Griffin front, Magic should get involved. Either to snatch Blake or maybe even DAJ if they go that way.

Destin wrote:Vuc is a soft vagina

if Vuc is soft ...so where does that leave you?

Destin wrote:Vuc is a soft vagina

This is our biggest problem. Centers aren't supposed to be the ones afraid of contact, but ours is probably the most frightened.

The lack of on-floor leadership is a huge issue imo. It seems like these guys need someone on the court to light the fire under their asses. Someone to hold them accountable, someone to force the coach's message into their loser mentality brains. I think Oladipo would be a borderline all-star if he played alongside someone with strong leadership skills and energy. I don't think Oladipo is the leader, nor Tobias, nor Frye, Payton will never be, and there ain't no one left.

Most coaches have a player like this.

~Snoopy~ wrote:

Destin wrote:Vuc is a soft vagina

if Vuc is soft ...so where does that leave you?

It leaved me watching this team suck every night and it leaves me to see that Vuc is a softie twat that has zero heart or hustle and is too chicken **** to make shots and protect the rim. That's where it leaves me.

j-ragg wrote:

Destin wrote:Vuc is a soft vagina

This is our biggest problem. Centers aren't supposed to be the ones afraid of contact, but ours is probably the most frightened.

I've said it before. I'll say it again:

Good team have guards who shoot and bigs that play defense. We're building the opposite way.

rcklsscognition wrote:

No player hates another player, but it's clear that selfish agendas (be it next contract, minutes, offensive touches, whatever) have ruined the on-court product. I mean you folks are all watching, do they look like a cohesive 5-man unit? It's night and day from now and back in late-November, early-December.

Adam is in the locker room, I assume every home game at least, so I'll go with his opinion on this.

I personally think we have some losers on the team who are selfish and feel like if they were getting shots and more minutes we wouldn't be losing. Mentally I think this is on Oladipo/Harris/Fournier and physically I think Vuc and Payton are killing us in their own ways.

I think the conversation is overblown... In the context in that this is what you get with a very young squad. You have a whole bunch of young guys who want to prove themselves, and aren't in a stage in their career where they want to put the team in front of their own motives. Then you add the fact that they lack experience/still developing (which comes with inconsistent play) and are still trying to figure out how to win on a consistent basis and you get this result.

There is no doubting the talent that team has, as we saw what they could do in earlier stages of the season. But it is what it is... This team won't go anywhere unless they move a couple of guys for 3-4 rotational vets. They might not good as the guys the Magic will be trading away, but they finally will provide the solid structure around the foundation that will remain here.

I mean good example is what had happened with the Milwaukee Bucks who made the playoffs last season WITH a mix of Veterans and pretty good young talent. This season they've decided to go primarily young and let their veterans go and now they're struggling.

Destin wrote:Magic fans also have loser mentality

Pretty much. Happy with the way they lose is the most pathetic thing going on here. How the hell are you happy with coming close to teams over .500 but still losing?

rcklsscognition wrote:

No player hates another player, but it's clear that selfish agendas (be it next contract, minutes, offensive touches, whatever) have ruined the on-court product. I mean you folks are all watching, do they look like a cohesive 5-man unit? It's night and day from now and back in late-November, early-December.

Adam is in the locker room, I assume every home game at least, so I'll go with his opinion on this.

I personally think we have some losers on the team who are selfish and feel like if they were getting shots and more minutes we wouldn't be losing. Mentally I think this is on Oladipo/Harris/Fournier and physically I think Vuc and Payton are killing us in their own ways.

Interesting quote. Potential agendas I could see:

Next Contract
- Fournier
- Nicholson
- Smith? (Although I consider him a stabilising presence when he's on the court)


Minutes/Touches
- Oladipo
- Napier
- Gordon
- Hezonja
- Harris
- Fournier


Lack of trust for whatever reason
- Fournier not trusting anyone other than Vuc
- Harris not trusting Fournier to pass
- Payton not trusting Vuc on defense



Any other potential agendas and dramas that might be going on?

407Junkie wrote:

Destin wrote:Magic fans also have loser mentality

Pretty much. Happy with the way they lose is the most pathetic thing going on here. How the hell are you happy with coming close to teams over .500 but still losing?

I think those Magic fans are realistic and take into account everything that is happening with the team. We don't want the team to lose... Nobody wants to see their team suck... But have to have o have a reasonable expectation from an angle that is objective. This team is a 33-39 Win team at most right now. Its something most of us thought what was going to happen.