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There seems to be a great deal of disagreement in the way Orlando must upgrade its roster. Perhaps the issue is clarified if we do not think about this in terms of personalities, but rather the positions themselves. Where is Orlando strong and where is it weak? In this question starting strength and depth are lumped together as a single roster-rotation. That is, when considering the question, think about both the starter and the bench.

I think PG. I would say PF, but I think they just keep running Gordon out at PF.

Where is the option for "All of the Above?"

Pg!!! Gordon is our PF goin forward imo,

Pg.
Gordon is our best player since the allstar break,with oladipo

Definitely PG. Aaron is gonna be a true stud. And I don't believe Elf will ever develop a shot.

PG by far.

Gordon/Oladipo/Vucevic is currently the core. Hezonja needs another season of development.

Fill in a superstar SF (Durant) and a snubbed All Star in Mike Conley at the PG spot, and suddenly the team looks deadly as hell. If we're unable to land Durant, the next best SF improvement would be Derozan or Parsons (I think he's a better fit than Fournier, let him walk or S&T) or Batum.

PG.....and it really pains me to say that

We don't even have a natural 3 playing small forward... how is it not the winner? Fournier is a 2 playing at the 3. Gordon is a 3 playing a 4. Every other slot is just fine folks.

When this season started, most if not all felt that the PF position would be the position of need. Amazing how AG has changed our minds on that now. Personally I would love to see him develop more of a SF game which he shows signs of at times. I still think he can have a career arc of Kawhi Leonard. AG has all of the tools to be just as good as him as long as he puts the work in.

I voted PF for that very reason however I can accept him being our everyday PF if it comes to that. If voting for PF as our weakest position is 1A for me then 1B would definitely be the PG position. I'm going to focus on the PG position even more as we wrap up this season to get an idea on where we go from here. I have not had a chance to watch games as I would like all last week so I am not gonna make baseless comments about Elf and Brandon. The inconsistencies from this position has killed us all season though.

Those of you who want to argue Payton has no shot should look at his 3pt percentage month over month this year and last. I'll bet it has been rising steadily as he looks like he's making it more consistently in games. Payton is a defensive minded, pass first PG which is what this team needs long term once we find our legit go-to scoring star.

For me, Vucevic is the problem and we will never win with a defensively soft Center that has fallen in love with the elbow jumper. I would trade him and do whatever it takes to get somebody like Whiteside who can anchor our team defensively in the paint.

Payton
Oladipo
Hezonja
Gordon
Whiteside

locomagicfan wrote:Those of you who want to argue Payton has no shot should look at his 3pt percentage month over month this year and last. I'll bet it has been rising steadily as he looks like he's making it more consistently in games. Payton is a defensive minded, pass first PG which is what this team needs long term once we find our legit go-to scoring star.

For me, Vucevic is the problem and we will never win with a defensively soft Center that has fallen in love with the elbow jumper. I would trade him and do whatever it takes to get somebody like Whiteside who can anchor our team defensively in the paint.

Payton
Oladipo
Hezonja
Gordon
Whiteside

A pass first PG who averages 6 assist per game. That's impressive

Payton defensive minded? Seriously he's average at best. Anyone who has some sort of speed goes right past him every time.


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Viper1500 wrote:

locomagicfan wrote:Those of you who want to argue Payton has no shot should look at his 3pt percentage month over month this year and last. I'll bet it has been rising steadily as he looks like he's making it more consistently in games. Payton is a defensive minded, pass first PG which is what this team needs long term once we find our legit go-to scoring star.

For me, Vucevic is the problem and we will never win with a defensively soft Center that has fallen in love with the elbow jumper. I would trade him and do whatever it takes to get somebody like Whiteside who can anchor our team defensively in the paint.

Payton
Oladipo
Hezonja
Gordon
Whiteside

A pass first PG who averages 6 assist per game. That's impressive

Payton defensive minded? Seriously he's average at best. Anyone who has some sort of speed goes right past him every time.


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The subtlety about assists is the person you pass to needs to make baskets. Who on the magic is pouring it in every night? Look at the leaders in assists this season and the go-to scorer they feed. Now look at our team and tell me who that is. Nobody on our team is even cracking 20ppg.

As for the defense, I will admit he has regressed from last year but I believe there's an underlying injury there + new system. The Payton we saw last year was a defensive star in the making at PG.

If you can't see this, then I don't believe you fundamentally understand basketball.

Viper1500 wrote:

locomagicfan wrote:Those of you who want to argue Payton has no shot should look at his 3pt percentage month over month this year and last. I'll bet it has been rising steadily as he looks like he's making it more consistently in games. Payton is a defensive minded, pass first PG which is what this team needs long term once we find our legit go-to scoring star.

For me, Vucevic is the problem and we will never win with a defensively soft Center that has fallen in love with the elbow jumper. I would trade him and do whatever it takes to get somebody like Whiteside who can anchor our team defensively in the paint.

Payton
Oladipo
Hezonja
Gordon
Whiteside

A pass first PG who averages 6 assist per game. That's impressive

Payton defensive minded? Seriously he's average at best. Anyone who has some sort of speed goes right past him every time.


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Sadly I have to agree. Elfid's defense has been pretty dissapointing, especially as it was advertised as one of his biggest assets coming out of draft.

Gary Payton vs. Elfrid Payton comparison:

http://basketball-players.pointafter.com/compare/349-10921/Elfrid-Payton-vs-Gary-Payton

Thank goodness some of you aren't the GM of the Magic (or the Supersonics).

We are in a rebuild meaning you should probably be a bit more patient with a player only in his second NBA season and with the trajectory of a HOF'er so far.

And if your counter argument is "small sample size", then it would be wise to shut up for at least 2 more years.

Viper1500 wrote:

locomagicfan wrote:Those of you who want to argue Payton has no shot should look at his 3pt percentage month over month this year and last. I'll bet it has been rising steadily as he looks like he's making it more consistently in games. Payton is a defensive minded, pass first PG which is what this team needs long term once we find our legit go-to scoring star.

For me, Vucevic is the problem and we will never win with a defensively soft Center that has fallen in love with the elbow jumper. I would trade him and do whatever it takes to get somebody like Whiteside who can anchor our team defensively in the paint.

Payton
Oladipo
Hezonja
Gordon
Whiteside

A pass first PG who averages 6 assist per game. That's impressive

Payton defensive minded? Seriously he's average at best. Anyone who has some sort of speed goes right past him every time.

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He has improved his 3pt shot, but its such low volume that it doesn't mean anything. 75 attempts in 1700 minutes is not really a sample size that warrants any defense to defend that shot...put it this way, EP's 3PAr is only higher on the team than Vuc, Smith and Dedmon's.

EP's defense last year was good but not anywhere near elite, but it showed promise that maybe some day it could be. This year his defense regressed quite a bit.

Last season EP was 9th amongst PG's in DRPM (0.87)
This season EP is 16th amongst PG's in DRPM (0.30)

His DBPM last year 0.8
His DBPM this year -0.4

His DRtg last year 107
His DRtg this year 107

locomagicfan wrote:Gary Payton vs. Elfrid Payton comparison:

http://basketball-players.pointafter.com/compare/349-10921/Elfrid-Payton-vs-Gary-Payton

Thank goodness some of you aren't the GM of the Magic (or the Supersonics).

We are in a rebuild meaning you should probably be a bit more patient with a player only in his second NBA season and with the trajectory of a HOF'er so far.

And if your counter argument is "small sample size", then it would be wise to shut up for at least 2 more years.

That site uses a basic counting stat comparison which gives incredibly broad and general results. Its really only intended for entry level /casual fans.

Here is a more specific projection done by FiveThirtyEight before this season started. It is very positive of EP's future, but I have a feeling that projection will drop dramatically once this years numbers are inserted. They predicted a big jump in WARP but its going to actually be a big drop...so expect that future All-Star prediction to be tempered somewhat.

http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/carmelo/elfrid-payton/

locomagicfan wrote:Gary Payton vs. Elfrid Payton comparison:.

One thing to take from the link is a reality that for classic PGs, it takes years to hone the craft (for GP, it was five years in fact).

Playing NBA PG is not an easy job.



..

locomagicfan wrote:Those of you who want to argue Payton has no shot should look at his 3pt percentage month over month this year and last. I'll bet it has been rising steadily as he looks like he's making it more consistently in games. Payton is a defensive minded, pass first PG which is what this team needs long term once we find our legit go-to scoring star.

For me, Vucevic is the problem and we will never win with a defensively soft Center that has fallen in love with the elbow jumper. I would trade him and do whatever it takes to get somebody like Whiteside who can anchor our team defensively in the paint.

Payton
Oladipo
Hezonja
Gordon
Whiteside

yes, his 3 pt % is decent now at 37%, but a problem to me is, he has no confidence in that shot. He is shooting just over 1 3pt shot a game. he is ranked 63rd in 3 pt FGA/game. teams sag off him because they know he isnt going to shoot it.

locomagicfan wrote:

Viper1500 wrote:

locomagicfan wrote:Those of you who want to argue Payton has no shot should look at his 3pt percentage month over month this year and last. I'll bet it has been rising steadily as he looks like he's making it more consistently in games. Payton is a defensive minded, pass first PG which is what this team needs long term once we find our legit go-to scoring star.

For me, Vucevic is the problem and we will never win with a defensively soft Center that has fallen in love with the elbow jumper. I would trade him and do whatever it takes to get somebody like Whiteside who can anchor our team defensively in the paint.

Payton
Oladipo
Hezonja
Gordon
Whiteside

A pass first PG who averages 6 assist per game. That's impressive

Payton defensive minded? Seriously he's average at best. Anyone who has some sort of speed goes right past him every time.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

The subtlety about assists is the person you pass to needs to make baskets. Who on the magic is pouring it in every night? Look at the leaders in assists this season and the go-to scorer they feed. Now look at our team and tell me who that is. Nobody on our team is even cracking 20ppg.

As for the defense, I will admit he has regressed from last year but I believe there's an underlying injury there + new system. The Payton we saw last year was a defensive star in the making at PG.

If you can't see this, then I don't believe you fundamentally understand basketball.

the Payton we saw last year was a pass-stealing, gambling player that was caught out of position half the time, the other half playing great defense.