Revisiting the Tobias trade 11 games in. Sad times.

[fateis007]

At first I wasn't sure what to think of this trade, besides.... "That's all we got?". But if the last 11 games for all players involved are a sign of what is to come. This may very well be the last straw for Skiles and Mr Organic, and might turn into the trade that cements their future here.

Over the past 10 games, Tobias Harris has become Detroit's most efficient scorer. Dropping 17ppg/6rb/3ast shooting 50% from 2, and 40% from 3 on very low usage.

Meanwhile in Disney world, Branding Jennings has looked like a shell of his former low% shooting self. Shooting just 31% from the field and 33% from deep.

And his partner in crime, Ilyasova is shooting out his his mind right now from the 3, and might be righting the ship @ 42%. But wait, not so fast. The guy is playing power forward and shooting 36% from the field. Yes, that wasn't a typo. 36% for a 6'11 guy. In order to pull this off, you really have to be taking a ton of bad shots.

So with the small sample size we have. We basically traded away a 23 year old going into his prime, that might easily bump up to a 21/8/3 player over the next 2-3 years on a cap friendly contract, for a bunch of inefficient chuckers that will have to be overpaid to retain after this season. These guys were supposed to come in and bring a veteran presence to make one last push for the playoffs, as a sacrafice for a cornerstone piece. But instead we find ourselves still on pace to make it back into the lottery this year, compounded by losing to 2 of the 3 worst teams in the league.

Now this could be that they are inherently just bad shooters, or this could be that Skiles offensive system is literally that terrible. But either way, it doesn't bode well for the Magic. It's a sad time to be a fan right now. As much as I love the potential of AG and Mario. 4 years of losing really takes a toll. When I look at the contract we will have to offer to land someone like parsons to come here, was scavenging for all this cap space worth the trade off either?

[JF5]

We all knew it was a bad trade when it happened...

Harris is being utilized correctly now since he's in a very cohesive system.

Makes me sad to know that we gave up good talent for guys who potentially might not be here next season.

[rusoopE]

[Furinkazan]

Henny got played.
people say Harris contract was big
now wait we will have to throw evem more money at same level average talent (and even then Im not sure anyone will come)
At least Harris cotract is declining and wasnt even a max.

[cedric76]

Still very happy with trade

Great for. Both parties

Great for Detroit obviously

Great for us because it was supposed to help us with our playoff run (which didn't workout) and leave us in great position financially if it doesn't workout

Harris is a great guy, great role player, I m very happy for him



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[SOLIDUS SNAKE]

not sweating it, it sucks that we didn't get immediate gratification but this deal was made with forward thinking in mind

[fklt]

do not go down this road.
bucks fans harris watch thread should be exemplary for us. in the end, their watch for a thousand pages ended up moot cause we traded him away also

[ezzzp]

...lets see how the summer goes and how that $17m Harris price tag feels next year once the Detroit honeymoon period ends.

[AddiFB]

Meh. I'm still fine with it because I look at the broader picture, what it does for us this summer and next, not what it does today, tomorrow or last 11 games. This was clearly, imho, a wise cap move going forward as Tobes, as good of a player he is, wasn't what we needed at PF. AG seems to be growing into that need with playing time because of the move. And FO seems to view him as the future, not Tobes. Plus, more money with the Frye move. We're fine.

[thelead]

I was a big Tobias fan but the trade cannot be judged until we see what Hennigan does with that cap space. At the same time, there is no chance in hell that Hennigan miraculously traded away the guy that supposedly had issues with Skiles in the past for two of Skiles' former starters. This was a Skiles trade.

Honestly, that was probably an "okay, I'll show you what happens if we listen to Skiles" move on Hennigan's part. Hennigan is probably giving Alex Martins the "I told you so" routine daily right about now.

[RickB-Orlando]

It's not like Tobias suddenly exploded. His Per36 for the past 4 years essentially matches his current production, which essentially matches what he did for us in the past as well. So his stats shouldn't really be surprising. He's a 17/8 guy.

[tiderulz]

It's not like Tobias suddenly exploded. His Per36 for the past 4 years essentially matches his current production, which essentially matches what he did for us in the past as well. So his stats shouldn't really be surprising. He's a 17/8 guy.

true, but here under Skiles he was a 13/7 guy. His whole game has risen, better FG%, better 3 pt%. shows how coaching can help a player.

I can agree with thoughts that this may have been Hennigan letting Martin & Skiles have their way, and being able to point to the production of Jennings/Ilyasova this summer to say, let me do my job and stay out of it. Hopefully use we our cap space right.

[tooler]

true, but here under Skiles he was a 13/7 guy. His whole game has risen, better FG%, better 3 pt%. shows how coaching can help a player.

Coaching can help a player make wide open 3-pointers instead of bricking them?

He's shot 25-30% from 3 most of his career. His contract year was 36%. Then he went back down to 31% this season for us. With Detroit he's shooting 41% over 11 games.

What will he shoot in the future? Who knows! But I doubt it has much to do with coaching.

Stan: "Make your 3-pointers, Tobias!"
Tobias: "Oh okay, you got it coach!"

He's a good player, folks. That's why we didn't have to include any assets to move his $64M contract! We knew the players we got back were a crap shoot salary dump. It's not a surprise they suck.

Before and after the trade, we're still searching for a star player to build around. Detroit has one. We don't. That's all that matters.

[drsd]

not sweating it, it sucks that we didn't get immediate gratification but this deal was made with forward thinking in mind

Indeed!

Orlando traded the cousins to make room for FA signings. We really cannot assess the outcome of these trades until the next preseason starts.

If Orlando resigns Jennings for 2 years 6M, and inks Horford, Parsons, and Noah, well, frankly, the Harris and Frye trades look like a gem of an idea (I assume İlyasova will be to expensive for Orland to resign).

Jennings, Horford, Parsons, and Noah for Harris and Frye, that's an excellent "trade."


..

[Versubio]

The Harris trade was not done for immediate results, it was done for future financial flexibility. The players we acquired for him are basically expiring contracts.

[Flannerz]

I was a big Tobias fan but the trade cannot be judged until we see what Hennigan does with that cap space. At the same time, there is no chance in hell that Hennigan miraculously traded away the guy that supposedly had issues with Skiles in the past for two of Skiles' former starters. This was a Skiles trade.

Honestly, that was probably an "okay, I'll show you what happens if we listen to Skiles" move on Hennigan's part. Hennigan is probably giving Alex Martins the "I told you so" routine daily right about now.

He'd better be and hopefully it will end up with Skiles being fired.

[tiderulz]

true, but here under Skiles he was a 13/7 guy. His whole game has risen, better FG%, better 3 pt%. shows how coaching can help a player.

Coaching can help a player make wide open 3-pointers instead of bricking them?

He's shot 25-30% from 3 most of his career. His contract year was 36%. Then he went back down to 31% this season for us. With Detroit he's shooting 41% over 11 games.

What will he shoot in the future? Who knows! But I doubt it has much to do with coaching.

Stan: "Make your 3-pointers, Tobias!"
Tobias: "Oh okay, you got it coach!"

He's a good player, folks. That's why we didn't have to include any assets to move his $64M contract! We knew the players we got back were a crap shoot salary dump. It's not a surprise they suck.

Before and after the trade, we're still searching for a star player to build around. Detroit has one. We don't. That's all that matters.

yes, coaching can do that. You run plays, run players off screens that gets them more open shots, capitalizes on mis-matches. A coach can definitely help all aspects of a players game, including making shots.

[tiderulz]

The Harris trade was not done for immediate results, it was done for future financial flexibility. The players we acquired for him are basically expiring contracts.

we hope they are expiring and not re-signed

[tiderulz]

not sweating it, it sucks that we didn't get immediate gratification but this deal was made with forward thinking in mind

Indeed!

Orlando traded the cousins to make room for FA signings. We really cannot assess the outcome of these trades until the next preseason starts.

If Orlando resigns Jennings for 2 years 6M, and inks Horford, Parsons, and Noah, well, frankly, the Harris and Frye trades look like a gem of an idea (I assume İlyasova will be to expensive for Orland to resign).

Jennings, Horford, Parsons, and Noah for Harris and Frye, that's an excellent "trade."
..

he has a team option at $8mil+ for next year.

[thelead]

I'm just not hopeful about this free agency thing... I mean, is someone like Horford at whatever ridiculous price going to be worth it? It would be nice to get someone in their prime.