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Hello fellow Magic fans!

I've been a huge Magic fan for about 5 or 6 years now and I've lurked on these board for a while, but I wanted to start posting this year.

Statistics can be deceiving but I always find them interesting, so I've thrown together some graphs to showcase how our main players have changed over the last 3 years (Or 2 years, in Payton and Gordon's case). I'm happy to make more on request. Enjoy and Go Magic!

(NOTE: Fournier's first year is with the Nuggets)

Per Game Stats

Points Per Game

Rebounds Per Game

Assists Per Game

Blocks Per Game

Steals Per Game

Turnovers Per Game (Lower is better)


Shooting Percentages

True Shooting Percentage (Best measurement of shooting efficiency)

Field Goal Percentage

Three Point Percentage

Free Throw Percentage


Advanced Stats

Player Efficiency Rating

Offensive Rating

Defensive Rating (Lower is better!)

Box Plus/Minus

Win Shares

Value Over Replacement

Excellent first post and welcome to the boards. I didn't realize how good AG's ORTG and DRTG relative to the team were.

The main thin I take away is Payton definitely needs to improve a lot on offense! If not he is going to have a real hard time being a starter in this league . This upcoming year is a HUGE year for him and out of all our "core" players he has the biggest jump . The fact that he is one of our worst free throw shooters and our starting point guard is a huge problem , not to mention one of the worst shooters in every other aspect . Add to the fact that his defense regressed last year it's hard to see what he brings to our team other than passing .

magician4ever wrote:Excellent first post and welcome to the boards. I didn't realize how good AG's ORTG and DRTG relative to the team were.

Thank you! Gordon's impact can sometimes be easy to miss, but for a guy who can't even legally drink yet it amazes me how good he is at the little things that add up during the game like smart passing, ball handling, cutting for offensive boards, etc. His ceiling is incredible.

Mc-o wrote:The main thin I take away is Payton definitely needs to improve a lot on offense! If not he is going to have a real hard time being a starter in this league . This upcoming year is a HUGE year for him and out of all our "core" players he has the biggest jump . The fact that he is one of our worst free throw shooters and our starting point guard is a huge problem , not to mention one of the worst shooters in every other aspect . Add to the fact that his defense regressed last year it's hard to see what he brings to our team other than passing .

I'm on the fence with Payton. Last season was not what I'd hoped from him, but there are a few things I try to keep in mind:

1. He suffered an injury last year that clearly was hampering him. Maybe some of it was mental, but his play at the beginning and end of the season was exponentially better than his slump in the middle of the season.
2. Skiles clearly was not his biggest fan and a new coach might have a positive impact on him.
3. He just turned 22 so his game is far from complete.

Next season will be very telling for Elf. He made some strides in his shooting last year, which is great to see, but he's got a long way to go. I love having him on the team so I'm hoping he lives up to his potential.

We could find ourselves saying every season we think Payton's shooting will be better...if the dude could hit even 70% FT's that would be huge...sadly we could find ourselves wishing every single season. Dude needs to improve, or he could lose his starting job at the point quickly.

Tayswagzzz wrote:We could find ourselves saying every season we think Payton's shooting will be better...if the dude could hit even 70% FT's that would be huge...sadly we could find ourselves wishing every single season. Dude needs to improve, or he could lose his starting job at the point quickly.

It's been 2 seasons...

and he's improved on both..

Can a brother get a Per36 set including Nicholson?

ezzzp?

Fun graphs to look at. Where did you find them?

SOUL wrote:

Tayswagzzz wrote:We could find ourselves saying every season we think Payton's shooting will be better...if the dude could hit even 70% FT's that would be huge...sadly we could find ourselves wishing every single season. Dude needs to improve, or he could lose his starting job at the point quickly.

It's been 2 seasons...

and he's improved on both..

For sure. The question is, is it enough to push us into playoffs as our starting PG? Hopefully.

Tayswagzzz wrote:For sure. The question is, is it enough to push us into playoffs as our starting PG? Hopefully.

True, that remains to be seen, just hope he gets a fair shake like everybody on this roster to prove their worth. I'd hate to lose talent just because we refused to let them show what they're capable of, but I'm hopeful of Vogel for our young players.

Fournier's TS% spiked with increased usage. But that's none of my business though.

Nightman wrote:

magician4ever wrote:Excellent first post and welcome to the boards. I didn't realize how good AG's ORTG and DRTG relative to the team were.

Thank you! Gordon's impact can sometimes be easy to miss, but for a guy who can't even legally drink yet it amazes me how good he is at the little things that add up during the game like smart passing, ball handling, cutting for offensive boards, etc. His ceiling is incredible.

Mc-o wrote:The main thin I take away is Payton definitely needs to improve a lot on offense! If not he is going to have a real hard time being a starter in this league . This upcoming year is a HUGE year for him and out of all our "core" players he has the biggest jump . The fact that he is one of our worst free throw shooters and our starting point guard is a huge problem , not to mention one of the worst shooters in every other aspect . Add to the fact that his defense regressed last year it's hard to see what he brings to our team other than passing .

I'm on the fence with Payton. Last season was not what I'd hoped from him, but there are a few things I try to keep in mind:

1. He suffered an injury last year that clearly was hampering him. Maybe some of it was mental, but his play at the beginning and end of the season was exponentially better than his slump in the middle of the season.
2. Skiles clearly was not his biggest fan and a new coach might have a positive impact on him.
3. He just turned 22 so his game is far from complete.

Next season will be very telling for Elf. He made some strides in his shooting last year, which is great to see, but he's got a long way to go. I love having him on the team so I'm hoping he lives up to his potential.

Yeah I want him to blow up and if he does it will really
Change our team

Def Swami wrote:Fournier's TS% spiked with increased usage. But that's none of my business though.

What's wrong with that ? It could have dropped with more usage but instead it went up , that's a great sign !!

Mc-o wrote:

Def Swami wrote:Fournier's TS% spiked with increased usage. But that's none of my business though.

What's wrong with that ? It could have dropped with more usage but instead it went up , that's a great sign !!

I point it out because it's excellent. And there might be some Fournier detractors.

Def Swami wrote:I point it out because it's excellent. And there might be some Fournier detractors.

I don't think any of his detractors actually complain about his shooting though. I don't know if I'd label myself as a detractor, but that's not my issue with his game for me. He is far and away our best shooter on the team.

Quite frankly, I think these charts look the worst for Vucevic who is trending downward in a lot of them. It's also clear he isn't our best offensive weapon and I will continue to argue even if he hits 20 mid range shots a game at a 50-55% clip that isn't our best offense and never will be.

Def Swami wrote:

Mc-o wrote:

Def Swami wrote:Fournier's TS% spiked with increased usage. But that's none of my business though.

What's wrong with that ? It could have dropped with more usage but instead it went up , that's a great sign !!

I point it out because it's excellent. And there might be some Fournier detractors.

Oh my bad totally missed read it lol

SOUL wrote:

Def Swami wrote:I point it out because it's excellent. And there might be some Fournier detractors.

I don't think any of his detractors actually complain about his shooting though. I don't know if I'd label myself as a detractor, but that's not my issue with his game for me. He is far and away our best shooter on the team.

Quite frankly, I think these charts look the worst for Vucevic who is trending downward in a lot of them. It's also clear he isn't our best offensive weapon and I will continue to argue even if he hits 20 mid range shots a game at a 50-55% clip that isn't our best offense and never will be.

Definitely makes EP looks worst , even him trendin upwards he is still not close to any of our other players on offense ! Vuc does not shoot as many mid range jumpers as you make it seem , a lot of times teams are packing the paint against us and forcing Vuc out of the paint because they do not really respect any of our other players . So really the only player they game plan for on offense is Vuc , idk how you can say these graphs make him look worst than EP .

EP was known as a bad offensive player though and he is trending upwards in a decent number of categories (while still needing to improve on others). Vucevic takes a lot.. or else his offensive impact would be higher for being our "best offensive player". If the trends continue, EP is going to catch Vucevic in true shooting percentage in a few years.. which would be weird and also not good because Vuc is supposed to be a great offensive player.

And Vucevic is much closer to his prime/is in his prime. He needs to show more on that end while anchoring our defense too. His defensive impact is very good in some areas, I think Vogel can help him in the others.

Mc-o wrote:

SOUL wrote:

Def Swami wrote:I point it out because it's excellent. And there might be some Fournier detractors.

I don't think any of his detractors actually complain about his shooting though. I don't know if I'd label myself as a detractor, but that's not my issue with his game for me. He is far and away our best shooter on the team.

Quite frankly, I think these charts look the worst for Vucevic who is trending downward in a lot of them. It's also clear he isn't our best offensive weapon and I will continue to argue even if he hits 20 mid range shots a game at a 50-55% clip that isn't our best offense and never will be.

Definitely makes EP looks worst , even him trendin upwards he is still not close to any of our other players on offense ! Vuc does not shoot as many mid range jumpers as you make it seem , a lot of times teams are packing the paint against us and forcing Vuc out of the paint because they do not really respect any of our other players . So really the only player they game plan for on offense is Vuc , idk how you can say these graphs make him look worst than EP .

Well, he IS 25. Payton had a good rookie year, and was down in some areas sophomore year. But it's been documented that Skiles didn't agree he should be our point guard so I'd be willing to think that had something to do with it.

Vuc has been the focal point of the offense for three years now and he's gotten progressively farther from the hoop. To his credit he's become a good passer. But don't think he has any desire to all of a sudden start trying hard on defense or drawing fouls and not shying away from contact.


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Also this proves what I've been saying since the middle of last year.

Get AG more involved!!!