Vucevic's trade value

[axl_c_cool]

Hey guys,


It's been a wild few days (I miss Dipo already ) and it's going to continue into the next few weeks. Trading Vucevic is a topic that comes up quite a lot on here. What do we honestly think his true value is? can we give a player comparison? or can we tier him?


Tier 1: Star (Durant, Curry, Lebron)

Tier 2: Allstar (Melo, Paul George, Butler, AD)

Tier 3: Role player (Ariza, Danny Green, Shumpert, Livingston)

Tier 4: Starter (Lee, Afflalo, MCW)

Tier 5: Role player (Barnes, Korver, Lin)

[eyriq]

Tier 2

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[reddog4720]

I honestly don't understand why most people want to trade Vuc. Yes, he has his limitations on defense, but he's also our most efficient and best offensive player under an extremely cap friendly contract. I would love to have a perennial all-star on this team, but those are extremely hard trade for and even harder to sign out right. So instead of chasing the white unicorn, why not build a team around your best player.

I think this Ibaka trade does that. While I still think we should not have included the #11 pick ( a protected future first should have been more than fair...like the same future first we should have gotten in the Tobias trade), we got a guy who compliments Vuc perfectly and I think we need to continue that trend. This is what ATL did and it turned Milsap, Horford, and Korver in to All-Stars.

It was no secret we weren't a great team last year, but we also weren't a terrible team, so a full sweep is not needed. It boiled down to a minor tweak and our only real options to trade were Victor or Vuc and we decided to ship out the highly erratic Victor in favor of the more consistent Vuc. I think we're on our way forward......with Vuc included.

[eyriq]

He's pretty much Aldridge or Horford.

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[drsd]

Based on the players you list at Tier-2 and Tier-3, is a Tier-2(minus) player. He is not Anthony or George, be is world's better than Ariza and Livingston.

[Instincts]

I don't think he is going anywhere. He is an elite offensive player and the go to scorer on this team. He is too valuable to the current team configuration to trade. I still believe he starts, but the flexibility for him to play a 6th man kanter type role is also possible now and in the future. Ibaka is as good a compliment to vuch as possible, Vuch will continue to offensively flouris this year. People are clamouring for a go to scorer, well vuch is easily the most offensively skilled big man in the league. He was really beginning to take it to another level offensively the second half of last year. He will rightfully remain the offensive focus this year.

Trade value: omitted from list above, but tier 2b: boarderline all-star, his value of course is limited by his defensive limitations. One way player.

[j-ragg]

He is an elite offensive player

[Airgordon00]

I've been thinking of a deal that would get us eric bledsoe from the suns for vuc. We may need to include a third team in there if they hold Alex len to a high regard. Bledsoe would provide us with someone who can attack the basket and get to the free throw line on a consistent basis and he is a hell of defender.

Then if we wanted to pursue a al horford we could be a scary team. That is really well balanced. A lineup of bledsoe, Fournier, Gordon, ibaka, and horford could be a scary good team. With Mario coming off the bench with some scoring punch and some solid vet signings we could compete in the east.

[Instincts]

Lol at your reaction and cute gif.

I am not an overt vuch fan, or a fan of one way players in general. But I do recognize an offensive big man skill set that is essentailly unstoppable at this point. He has a complete offensive arsenal and continues to add to his offensive skill set. His post moves, counter moves, are the best I remember seeing. If the d sits back his mid range is deadly, now he has added the straight line drive if the d comes out to contest jumper. What else do you want!!?? He is an elite offensive big. Name just one in the league today that is better?? Maybe Aldridge, but Aldridge looked slow in playoffs, and vuchs elite, yes elite post game moves him well ahead of Aldridge.

You can doubt his defensive ability, as we all do. But to sit there and diminish his offensive skill set is ridiculous. You better take note of what he is, the best offensive big in the league entering his prime.

He is an elite offensive player

[BadMofoPimp]

Being people have beaten the trade Vooch thing to death while he is least likely to be traded, I am more interested in AG's or Mario's trade value.

[j-ragg]

Lol at your reaction and cute gif.

I am not an overt vuch fan, or a fan of one way players in general. But I do recognize an offensive big man skill set that is in essense unstoppable at this point. He has a complete offensive arsenal and continues to his offensive skill set. His post moves, counter moves, are the best I remember seeing. If the d sits back his mid range is deadly, now he has added the straight line drive if the d comes out to contest jumper. What else due you want!!?? He is an elite offensive big. Name just one in the league today that is better?? Maybe Aldridge, but Aldridge looked slow in playoffs, and vuchs elite, yes elite post game moves him well ahead of Aldridge.

You can doubt his defensive ability, as we all do. But to sit there and diminish his offensive skill set is ridiculous. You better take note of what he is, the best offensive big in the league entering his prime.

He is an elite offensive player

snip

Do you think an elite offensive player should be an efficient offensive player? "You better take note of what he is"

[Instincts]

Break out the stats.

He came back from injury, if I recall went on a long run of games where he went 12/15 from the field. He is just entering his prime with room for efficiency improvements. Since you bring up stats, bring them out, who would you call the elite offensive BIG in todays game?? Let's see the efficiency stats compared to our 25 year old player. Let's see it!!!!!

Also even an individual stat like efficiency is effected by surrounding players. Vuch is effected by having a second year point guard, and oladipo running the point. As a result, Vuch simply does not get the easy dump off opportunities that deandre Jordon and Chris Paul create. So don't use a player like Jordon based on offensive efficiency stats as a better offensive player than Vuch. Not going to fly. Also vuch was also negitively effected by the youth of the team, and the general lack of offensive cohesion. Be sure to factor that into your stats!

Lol at your reaction and cute gif.

I am not an overt vuch fan, or a fan of one way players in general. But I do recognize an offensive big man skill set that is in essense unstoppable at this point. He has a complete offensive arsenal and continues to his offensive skill set. His post moves, counter moves, are the best I remember seeing. If the d sits back his mid range is deadly, now he has added the straight line drive if the d comes out to contest jumper. What else due you want!!?? He is an elite offensive big. Name just one in the league today that is better?? Maybe Aldridge, but Aldridge looked slow in playoffs, and vuchs elite, yes elite post game moves him well ahead of Aldridge.

You can doubt his defensive ability, as we all do. But to sit there and diminish his offensive skill set is ridiculous. You better take note of what he is, the best offensive big in the league entering his prime.

snip

Do you think an elite offensive player should be an efficient offensive player? "You better take note of what he is"

[j-ragg]

Break out the stats.

He came back from injury, if I recall went on a long run of games where he went 12/15 from the field. He is just entering his prime with room for efficiency improvements. Since you bring up stats, bring them out, who would you call the elite offensive BIG in todays game?? Let's see the efficiency stats compared to our 25 year old player. Let's see it!!!!!

Also even an individual stat like efficiency is effected by surrounding players. Vuch is effected by having a second year point guard, and oladipo running the point. As well as a general lack of offensive cohesion. Be sure to factor that into your stats!

Lol at your reaction and cute gif.

I am not an overt vuch fan, or a fan of one way players in general. But I do recognize an offensive big man skill set that is in essense unstoppable at this point. He has a complete offensive arsenal and continues to his offensive skill set. His post moves, counter moves, are the best I remember seeing. If the d sits back his mid range is deadly, now he has added the straight line drive if the d comes out to contest jumper. What else due you want!!?? He is an elite offensive big. Name just one in the league today that is better?? Maybe Aldridge, but Aldridge looked slow in playoffs, and vuchs elite, yes elite post game moves him well ahead of Aldridge.

You can doubt his defensive ability, as we all do. But to sit there and diminish his offensive skill set is ridiculous. You better take note of what he is, the best offensive big in the league entering his prime.

Do you think an elite offensive player should be an efficient offensive player? "You better take note of what he is"

Well, points per shot is a metric we bring up on here a lot. With Vuc's horrible, historically bad free throw rate for the volume of shots he gets, coupled with the fact that he doesn't shoot three point shots, he ranks 103rd in the entire league in points per shot which is far from elite. Also, he ranks 217th in the entire NBA in true shooting percentage.

[tiderulz]

I honestly don't understand why most people want to trade Vuc. Yes, he has his limitations on defense, but he's also our most efficient and best offensive player under an extremely cap friendly contract. I would love to have a perennial all-star on this team, but those are extremely hard trade for and even harder to sign out right. So instead of chasing the white unicorn, why not build a team around your best player.

I think this Ibaka trade does that. While I still think we should not have included the #11 pick ( a protected future first should have been more than fair...like the same future first we should have gotten in the Tobias trade), we got a guy who compliments Vuc perfectly and I think we need to continue that trend. This is what ATL did and it turned Milsap, Horford, and Korver in to All-Stars.

It was no secret we weren't a great team last year, but we also weren't a terrible team, so a full sweep is not needed. It boiled down to a minor tweak and our only real options to trade were Victor or Vuc and we decided to ship out the highly erratic Victor in favor of the more consistent Vuc. I think we're on our way forward......with Vuc included.

he isnt our most efficient scorer. when you take 20 shots to make 20 points, because you dont draw FT's or make 3 ptrs you are not that efficient. Though i agree that we should take a look at how the team looks now that we have Ibaka next to Vuc, not just try and trade him away.

As for our team last year, yes we were a terrible team. We didnt defend well, didnt score well and had disfunction.

as for value, he is between tier 2 and tier 3.

[tiderulz]

I don't think he is going anywhere. He is an elite offensive player and the go to scorer on this team. He is too valuable to the current team configuration to trade. I still believe he starts, but the flexibility for him to play a 6th man kanter type role is also possible now and in the future. Ibaka is as good a compliment to vuch as possible, Vuch will continue to offensively flouris this year. People are clamouring for a go to scorer, well vuch is easily the most offensively skilled big man in the league. He was really beginning to take it to another level offensively the second half of last year. He will rightfully remain the offensive focus this year.

Trade value: omitted from list above, but tier 2b: boarderline all-star, his value of course is limited by his defensive limitations. One way player.

explain to me why you consider Vuc an "elite offensive player"?

[yoyojw17]

Break out the stats.

He came back from injury, if I recall went on a long run of games where he went 12/15 from the field. He is just entering his prime with room for efficiency improvements. Since you bring up stats, bring them out, who would you call the elite offensive BIG in todays game?? Let's see the efficiency stats compared to our 25 year old player. Let's see it!!!!!

Also even an individual stat like efficiency is effected by surrounding players. Vuch is effected by having a second year point guard, and oladipo running the point. As well as a general lack of offensive cohesion. Be sure to factor that into your stats!

Do you think an elite offensive player should be an efficient offensive player? "You better take note of what he is"

Well, points per shot is a metric we bring up on here a lot. With Vuc's horrible, historically bad free throw rate for the volume of shots he gets, coupled with the fact that he doesn't shoot three point shots, he ranks 103rd in the entire league in points per shot which is far from elite. Also, he ranks 217th in the entire NBA in true shooting percentage.

Whoooooa.... Since when does being a taker of 3 pointers become a requirement for a player... @ the center position?!? There are only a handful of centers that even do that ... Yet alone do that well.

And speaking of 3 pointers.... For over a year now... People have harped for a 3 point shooting/shotblocking big man that will compliment our inside-out center! We got that "white unicorn" that will be ideal.... And all of a sudden everyone is assuming he now needs to be traded? Smhhhhh

The guy averaged 18.2pts/8.9reb/2.8assist while shooting over 50% on the season as a high volume shooter and shooting over 75% from the ft line... Admittingly not very often. But if you look at his game... He's a great jump shooter (think of the number of times you cringed thinking the jumpsuit was not going in... Probably not often) and a finesse back to the basket type interior game.... Where he is methodical... Gets good position early and once he catches the ball.... Finishes going in either direction... Not a pound it in center to get random calls. Would I love to see him get more call... Of course and I hope that changes as well.... Maybe once he becomes a borderline all-star and gets the star calls. Haha

Now.... Look at his post all star play.... He average over 21 pnts a game on Even better efficiency and less than 30 minutes!! Name the list of centers that can do what he can do on the offensive end.

In the same way as hibbert was made into a relevant by Vogel on defense.... I think his defensive shortcomings will be aided with a better team scheme which funnels the offense towards him at the rim where his 7.5ft wingspan and 9'5" standing reach is waiting. And even better now .... We have one of the best erasers in the game on the weak side to help.

So.... I'm pretty darn sure he is not being traded. And I am more than intrigues to see how this team plays next season! Beyond hyped about our team!
On that note... #gomagic

[Instincts]

Fair response. And of course lack of free throws attempts is a negitive. Three point shot is likely the next facet to his game.

But as I mentioned above and I am sure you would concede the points per field goal attempt is a least partially based on the surrounding players, the pg, and offensive cohesion. The league leader is deandre Jordon.

Are you suggesting deandre Jordon is a better offensive player than vuch?

Are you suggesting that deandre Jordon would provide a better primary scoring option than vuch?

I would say that both answers are a resounding no. And that the answer to both of the questions being no shows at least partial issues with the stats you are citing for your arguement.

Break out the stats.

He came back from injury, if I recall went on a long run of games where he went 12/15 from the field. He is just entering his prime with room for efficiency improvements. Since you bring up stats, bring them out, who would you call the elite offensive BIG in todays game?? Let's see the efficiency stats compared to our 25 year old player. Let's see it!!!!!

Also even an individual stat like efficiency is effected by surrounding players. Vuch is effected by having a second year point guard, and oladipo running the point. As well as a general lack of offensive cohesion. Be sure to factor that into your stats!

Do you think an elite offensive player should be an efficient offensive player? "You better take note of what he is"

Well, points per shot is a metric we bring up on here a lot. With Vuc's horrible, historically bad free throw rate for the volume of shots he gets, coupled with the fact that he doesn't shoot three point shots, he ranks 103rd in the entire league in points per shot which is far from elite. Also, he ranks 217th in the entire NBA in true shooting percentage.

[fendilim]

Tier 3, but since he has a nice contract, Tier 2.5

[Instincts]

It's very simple.

Even with the ineptitude of the pg play, the lack of play creation from pg position, the general player youth and incohesive offense, no one can stop vuch from putting the ball in the basket. He can not be guarded one on one.

Even with teams game planning to stop him as the primary option. His offensive arsenal is simply to complete, now including the ability to pass out of double and triple teams.

I don't think he is going anywhere. He is an elite offensive player and the go to scorer on this team. He is too valuable to the current team configuration to trade. I still believe he starts, but the flexibility for him to play a 6th man kanter type role is also possible now and in the future. Ibaka is as good a compliment to vuch as possible, Vuch will continue to offensively flouris this year. People are clamouring for a go to scorer, well vuch is easily the most offensively skilled big man in the league. He was really beginning to take it to another level offensively the second half of last year. He will rightfully remain the offensive focus this year.

Trade value: omitted from list above, but tier 2b: boarderline all-star, his value of course is limited by his defensive limitations. One way player.

explain to me why you consider Vuc an "elite offensive player"?

[tiderulz]

Break out the stats.

He came back from injury, if I recall went on a long run of games where he went 12/15 from the field. He is just entering his prime with room for efficiency improvements. Since you bring up stats, bring them out, who would you call the elite offensive BIG in todays game?? Let's see the efficiency stats compared to our 25 year old player. Let's see it!!!!!

Also even an individual stat like efficiency is effected by surrounding players. Vuch is effected by having a second year point guard, and oladipo running the point. As well as a general lack of offensive cohesion. Be sure to factor that into your stats!

Well, points per shot is a metric we bring up on here a lot. With Vuc's horrible, historically bad free throw rate for the volume of shots he gets, coupled with the fact that he doesn't shoot three point shots, he ranks 103rd in the entire league in points per shot which is far from elite. Also, he ranks 217th in the entire NBA in true shooting percentage.

Whoooooa.... Since when does being a taker of 3 pointers become a requirement for a player... @ the center position?!? There are only a handful of centers that even do that ... Yet alone do that well.

And speaking of 3 pointers.... For over a year now... People have harped for a 3 point shooting/shotblocking big man that will compliment our inside-out center! We got that "white unicorn" that will be ideal.... And all of a sudden everyone is assuming he now needs to be traded? Smhhhhh

The guy averaged 18.2pts/8.9reb/2.8assist while shooting over 50% on the season as a high volume shooter and shooting over 75% from the ft line... Admittingly not very often. But if you look at his game... He's a great jump shooter (think of the number of times you cringed thinking the jumpsuit was not going in... Probably not often) and a finesse back to the basket type interior game.... Where he is methodical... Gets good position early and once he catches the ball.... Finishes going in either direction... Not a pound it in center to get random calls. Would I love to see him get more call... Of course and I hope that changes as well.... Maybe once he becomes a borderline all-star and gets the star calls. Haha

Now.... Look at his post all star play.... He average over 21 pnts a game on Even better efficiency and less than 30 minutes!! Name the list of centers that can do what he can do on the offensive end.

In the same way as hibbert was made into a relevant by Vogel on defense.... I think his defensive shortcomings will be aided with a better team scheme which funnels the offense towards him at the rim where his 7.5ft wingspan and 9'5" standing reach is waiting. And even better now .... We have one of the best erasers in the game on the weak side to help.

So.... I'm pretty darn sure he is not being traded. And I am more than intrigues to see how this team plays next season! Beyond hyped about our team!
On that note... #gomagic

3 pt shots from a center are not required, but it plays into scoring efficiency. either that or drawing fouls (which he ranked 33rd of all centers). if he was to be elite, he has to do one or the other. And he used to be great around the rim and now has fallen in love with the mid range jump shot, the most inefficient shot in the game. yes, he shoots it at a good %, but for him to be elite to me, he has to get around the basket more, draw fouls and contract for free throws, getting players in foul trouble.