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I'm anticipating an overwhelming response of how everybody on the team sucks, but I felt like taking the time to look over our guys.

Starting 5

Biyombo - 24
Ibaka - 27
Gordon - 21
Fournier - 24
Payton - 22

That is a young squad. Very young. It's easy to look at AG and Payton as our most obvious developing players because they're the youngest and our draft picks, but Biyombo and Fournier are most definitely still developing as players. That's essentially 4 out of 5 guys who are learning on the job.

Now, Ibaka and Fournier are our most capable and accomplished guys within those starters. I think the reason for our struggles is because those two aren't good enough to be top 2 contributors on a winning team. Ibaka couldn't get it done with Westbrook when Durant was out, so expecting him to be able to do so on his own here is probably just unfair. Fournier is learning how to be a primary option and playmaker, and he's still learning how to see the court better.

Biyombo is still learning, too. I won't lie, I wish Vogel had turned him into more of a defensive beast, but at 24 there's still plenty of time for him to take a big step. Looking at this comparison to other defensive C's, he seems to be right in the thick of things across the board.

For Gordon,I looked up this comparison of Gordon to the likes of Kawhi, Paul George, Giannis and Rodney Hood at age 21* (Giannis started getting major minutes much earlier, so I looked at him at age 20, and Hood was 22 as a rookie, so that's the season I went with). In terms of Per36 numbers, it's a pretty damn even race. However, when you look at advanced stats, Gordon is last or 2nd last in nearly all of them. Still, he seems to be on the right path in his development, we just need to be patient whilst he puts it all together.

For Payton, I looked up a comparison for Payton, too, to the likes of Lowry, Kemba, Conley, Reggie Jackson and Bledsoe, all at age 22. These are all starting quality PGs who aren't superstars, but are stars on winning teams (or have been, except for Bledsoe). Elf ranks amongst the top 3 in most categories (except 3pt shooting) in Per36 and Advanced stats. So he's clearly on the right track in his development and rate of progress.

Now, for some perspective, Kemba didn't lead Charlotte to a winning season until he was 25, in his 5th year. Conley until his 4th year. Lowry didn't get to start until he was 24, where he lead Houston to two .500+ seasons but failed to make the playoffs. He didn't make the playoffs until his 2nd season with Toronto, at age 27. Reggie Jackson was 25 before you could say he lead his own team to the playoffs.

Our team is currently built with two guys carrying the load (three including Vuc) who aren't quite up to the task, but because of that they're also best prepared to step aside once AG and EP are ready to take the reigns. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like either of those two will be ready to do that this season on a consistent basis.

I haven't even touched on Vuc, who's improved defensively and who's presence off the bench gives us a starting caliber scorer on the floor at all times. It's a shame it's a bad season for him offensively, but he's still doing great in his role, IMO.

I don't have any answers for our troubles. The one thing I would like to see Vogel do is to get the team playing defense again. This team needs to forge an identity of all-in defense, and anyone who's lagging behind or not pulling their weight needs to be pulled back into the fold or pushed out into the cold.

We have good players but a bad team . Imo EP has the best chance to be good and has had stretches when he dominates . His issue is consistency in every aspect of his game , if he can ever figure out how to be "Good EP " every night ... Watch out!!!

If the real solution is "be patient," well, GM Hennigan loses his job. He created this young roster and he only needs to live with the consequences of his actions.

drsd wrote:If the real solution is "be patient," well, GM Hennigan loses his job. He created this young roster and he only needs to live with the consequences of his actions.

The thing is, there's only 3 options out there (that I can see):


1) Be patient, but try to compete: Whilst we wait for AG and EP to be ready to take the reigns and lead us into competitive basketball, we surround them with the right supporting cast who are strong enough to carry the team in the short term, but who can step aside and be good secondary players when the time comes. This is what we're currently doing, but it's obviously not working out too well.

2) Keep AG and EP as the future, but upgrade our "ready now" guys for better players who can carry a team now. This is the equivalent of Kawhi having Duncan/Manu/Parker carrying the load during his early seasons. Kawhi was 23 when he made the jump from a 12.8ppg scorer to a 16.5ppg scorer. He was 24 when he became a 21.2ppg scorer. In the short term, Kawhi focused on becoming an elite defensive presence. This would require making moves like trading Ibaka for Millsap and Fournier for Wade. Gives us 2 guys who are older but still capable of playing at a reasonably elite level, and by the time their games really drop off a cliff (in a season or 2), AG and EP should be ready to take over.

3) Hand the keys over to AG and EP and deal with the W's or L's as they come. This would entail removing any other 'alpha' personalities (like Fournier/Vuc/Ibaka/etc) that the guys might defer to, or who might want to claim the role of leader, and allowing the young guys to find their way. Milwaukee did it with Giannis, Indiana did it with George.

Bensational wrote:1) Be patient, but try to compete: Whilst we wait for AG and EP to be ready to take the reigns and lead us into competitive basketball, we surround them with the right supporting cast who are strong enough to carry the team in the short term, but who can step aside and be good secondary players when the time comes. This is what we're currently doing, but it's obviously not working out too well.

2) Keep AG and EP as the future, but upgrade our "ready now" guys for better players who can carry a team now. This is the equivalent of Kawhi having Duncan/Manu/Parker carrying the load during his early seasons. Kawhi was 23 when he made the jump from a 12.8ppg scorer to a 16.5ppg scorer. He was 24 when he became a 21.2ppg scorer. In the short term, Kawhi focused on becoming an elite defensive presence. This would require making moves like trading Ibaka for Millsap and Fournier for Wade. Gives us 2 guys who are older but still capable of playing at a reasonably elite level, and by the time their games really drop off a cliff (in a season or 2), AG and EP should be ready to take over.

3) Hand the keys over to AG and EP and deal with the W's or L's as they come. This would entail removing any other 'alpha' personalities (like Fournier/Vuc/Ibaka/etc) that the guys might defer to, or who might want to claim the role of leader, and allowing the young guys to find their way. Milwaukee did it with Giannis, Indiana did it with George.

One question: which of these scenarios results in GM Hennigan maintaining employment in Orlando?


..

I agree that Payton, Gordon, and to an extent Fournier are still developing, however, Ibaka is what he is at this point. He's far and away our best player, without question, but that's not nearly good enough to even sniff the playoffs currently (also, his age is debatable according to some reports). Biyombo is also allegedly only 24, and even if we do believe his age, I don't see him getting any better on offense because of a lack of the base offensive skills. His defense, though it can be attractive due to the blocks and rebounds, leaves a lot to be desired due to his size. That isn't something he can work on. He can work on positioning, but he will always get bullied by bigger centers.

The starting 5, much like the entire roster, is flawed and major change is needed (as many of us on hear have beaten to a pulp). This is year 5 of the rebuild and pretty much the entire fan base as well as the organization had playoff aspirations (management had them last year too). Due to 2 straight disappointing seasons, I can't see Hennigan getting a 6th year "to figure this thing out" (and deservedly so).

What is needed is a complete organizational overhaul, starting with martins, down to Hennigan, and most of the players (keep Vogel because he hasn't exactly been dealt a good hand with this squad). The top guys need to be basketball guys and Martins isn't one, and Hennigan has left me questioning whether he is one as well.

drsd wrote:

Bensational wrote:1) Be patient, but try to compete: Whilst we wait for AG and EP to be ready to take the reigns and lead us into competitive basketball, we surround them with the right supporting cast who are strong enough to carry the team in the short term, but who can step aside and be good secondary players when the time comes. This is what we're currently doing, but it's obviously not working out too well.

2) Keep AG and EP as the future, but upgrade our "ready now" guys for better players who can carry a team now. This is the equivalent of Kawhi having Duncan/Manu/Parker carrying the load during his early seasons. Kawhi was 23 when he made the jump from a 12.8ppg scorer to a 16.5ppg scorer. He was 24 when he became a 21.2ppg scorer. In the short term, Kawhi focused on becoming an elite defensive presence. This would require making moves like trading Ibaka for Millsap and Fournier for Wade. Gives us 2 guys who are older but still capable of playing at a reasonably elite level, and by the time their games really drop off a cliff (in a season or 2), AG and EP should be ready to take over.

3) Hand the keys over to AG and EP and deal with the W's or L's as they come. This would entail removing any other 'alpha' personalities (like Fournier/Vuc/Ibaka/etc) that the guys might defer to, or who might want to claim the role of leader, and allowing the young guys to find their way. Milwaukee did it with Giannis, Indiana did it with George.

One question: which of these scenarios results in GM Hennigan maintaining employment in Orlando?


..

None, which is why none of these scenarios will happen this year. I can see both guys being traded between now and the trade deadline so Hennigan can save his ass. Hopefully he doesn't get ripped off again (history says he will)

part of the problem is

1 - we are paying Biyombo like he is that beast you want Vogel to turn him into. But it is wasted money as he has maybe played 1 game where his lack of offense was countered by his impact on the game with defense and hustle.

2 - to keep that veteran hand with the team, we will be forced to pay Ibaka something in the neighborhood of 5 yrs, $30mil/yr, or so. We are not a good enough team to start locking in salary like that.

3 - the really only option imo is to turn the keys to AG and Elf, get Mario on the court (here or in the D League) to see exactly what you have with him, and trade Ibaka because we will lose a lot and Ibaka will not want to re-sign at his age with a team losing so much. We CANNOT afford to let him walk with zero return

Good job Ben! Good thought process, good write up. I disagree with all saying Henningan should get fired. Absolutely not.

tiderulz wrote:part of the problem is

1 - we are paying Biyombo like he is that beast you want Vogel to turn him into. But it is wasted money as he has maybe played 1 game where his lack of offense was countered by his impact on the game with defense and hustle.

2 - to keep that veteran hand with the team, we will be forced to pay Ibaka something in the neighborhood of 5 yrs, $30mil/yr, or so. We are not a good enough team to start locking in salary like that.

3 - the really only option imo is to turn the keys to AG and Elf, get Mario on the court (here or in the D League) to see exactly what you have with him, and trade Ibaka because we will lose a lot and Ibaka will not want to re-sign at his age with a team losing so much. We CANNOT afford to let him walk with zero return

I like Ibaka but giving him the contract he wants leave a lot of money tied up with him, Fournier and Biz. That's a lot on three players where none of them are stars.

Bensational wrote:I'm anticipating an overwhelming response of how everybody on the team sucks, but I felt like taking the time to look over our guys.

Starting 5

Biyombo - 24
Ibaka - 27
Gordon - 21
Fournier - 24
Payton - 22

That is a young squad. Very young. It's easy to look at AG and Payton as our most obvious developing players because they're the youngest and our draft picks, but Biyombo and Fournier are most definitely still developing as players. That's essentially 4 out of 5 guys who are learning on the job.

Now, Ibaka and Fournier are our most capable and accomplished guys within those starters. I think the reason for our struggles is because those two aren't good enough to be top 2 contributors on a winning team. Ibaka couldn't get it done with Westbrook when Durant was out, so expecting him to be able to do so on his own here is probably just unfair. Fournier is learning how to be a primary option and playmaker, and he's still learning how to see the court better.

Biyombo is still learning, too. I won't lie, I wish Vogel had turned him into more of a defensive beast, but at 24 there's still plenty of time for him to take a big step. Looking at this comparison to other defensive C's, he seems to be right in the thick of things across the board.

For Gordon,I looked up this comparison of Gordon to the likes of Kawhi, Paul George, Giannis and Rodney Hood at age 21* (Giannis started getting major minutes much earlier, so I looked at him at age 20, and Hood was 22 as a rookie, so that's the season I went with). In terms of Per36 numbers, it's a pretty damn even race. However, when you look at advanced stats, Gordon is last or 2nd last in nearly all of them. Still, he seems to be on the right path in his development, we just need to be patient whilst he puts it all together.

For Payton, I looked up a comparison for Payton, too, to the likes of Lowry, Kemba, Conley, Reggie Jackson and Bledsoe, all at age 22. These are all starting quality PGs who aren't superstars, but are stars on winning teams (or have been, except for Bledsoe). Elf ranks amongst the top 3 in most categories (except 3pt shooting) in Per36 and Advanced stats. So he's clearly on the right track in his development and rate of progress.

Now, for some perspective, Kemba didn't lead Charlotte to a winning season until he was 25, in his 5th year. Conley until his 4th year. Lowry didn't get to start until he was 24, where he lead Houston to two .500+ seasons but failed to make the playoffs. He didn't make the playoffs until his 2nd season with Toronto, at age 27. Reggie Jackson was 25 before you could say he lead his own team to the playoffs.

Our team is currently built with two guys carrying the load (three including Vuc) who aren't quite up to the task, but because of that they're also best prepared to step aside once AG and EP are ready to take the reigns. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like either of those two will be ready to do that this season on a consistent basis.

I haven't even touched on Vuc, who's improved defensively and who's presence off the bench gives us a starting caliber scorer on the floor at all times. It's a shame it's a bad season for him offensively, but he's still doing great in his role, IMO.

I don't have any answers for our troubles. The one thing I would like to see Vogel do is to get the team playing defense again. This team needs to forge an identity of all-in defense, and anyone who's lagging behind or not pulling their weight needs to be pulled back into the fold or pushed out into the cold.

And VUC is 26

I love our team, it s not like we can be CLE or GW anytime soon, so be patient and develop winning attitude (NO tanking allowed)

The only real option is to give AG, EP and Mario the majority of playing time. The vets that require larger contracts need to go if we are sticking with the youth movement.

Yes, we are young. However, I think the skill sets don't match up together. The development,or lack thereof, from Mario was a setback Hennigan was relying heavily on. I think the younger players we have are good, but I don't think they are collectively in the best situation.

The development argument IMO is overplayed when looking at players within the same age range and number of years in the league. You are comparing players that have been in the league give or take +/- 2 years. There's only SO much growth that can possibly happen to a player averaging 30+ minutes a night.

I'll take AG for example, since y'know he was the 4th overall pick for us a few years ago. Ok he's 21, people were clamoring that he needed more minutes "free AG right?" (he now plays a lot of minutes). Ok so he's still young and there is a lot of potential there. But is he capable of carrying us through games? He's had what maybe a handful of game where you can truly point to that. Now, I could post a list of 21-23 year old players that ABSOLUTELY take over games and put teams on their back, but I'm not going to because most of you know that's the case. What are realistic expectations as far as a ceiling?

MagicMatic wrote:The only real option is to give AG, EP and Mario the majority of playing time. The vets that require larger contracts need to go if we are sticking with the youth movement.

Yes, we are young. However, I think the skill sets don't match up together. The development,or lack thereof, from Mario was a setback Hennigan was relying heavily on. I think the younger players we have are good, but I don't think they are collectively in the best situation.

The development argument IMO is overplayed when looking at players within the same age range and number of years in the league. You are comparing players that have been in the league give or take +/- 2 years. There's only SO much growth that can possibly happen to a player averaging 30+ minutes a night.

I'll take AG for example, since y'know he was the 4th overall pick for us a few years ago. Ok he's 21, people were clamoring that he needed more minutes "free AG right?" (he now plays a lot of minutes). Ok so he's still young and there is a lot of potential there. But is he capable of carrying us through games? He's had what maybe a handful of game where you can truly point to that. Now, I could post a list of 21-23 year old players that ABSOLUTELY take over games and put teams on their back, but I'm not going to because most of you know that's the case. What are realistic expectations as far as a ceiling?

I think us fans are more sold on AG then the magic organization. If they really believed in him they would be making moves to make him the focus. They dont because they dont believe he is a franchise carrying player. EP has shown more flashes of being able to be that player than AG imo. I just wish they would have let the young guys grow together with dipo and harris. They started last season really good and loss a bunch of close games but alot of that could have been growing pains. I would love to have seen what vogel could have done with them and still adding biz and dj.

I like that the thread started with showing our committed vets are young but I just don't like the fact that we only kept 3 of our 5 rebuilding picks(I'm content with the Ibaka trade but not the upside of the roster). I think management needs to commit to a vision for the team as it seems the view for the team has been unclear; developing AG at a new position while trying to contend for the playoffs for example.

I hope we build back our asset base in talent with or without Hennigan because teams like Boston, Toronto and Utah have too many players to pay in the coming years and teams like Minnesota and Philadelphia won't be able to keep all their top picks when they start becoming good.

Bensational wrote:I'm anticipating an overwhelming response of how everybody on the team sucks, but I felt like taking the time to look over our guys.

Starting 5

Biyombo - 24
Ibaka - 27
Gordon - 21
Fournier - 24
Payton - 22

That is a young squad. Very young. It's easy to look at AG and Payton as our most obvious developing players because they're the youngest and our draft picks, but Biyombo and Fournier are most definitely still developing as players. That's essentially 4 out of 5 guys who are learning on the job.

Now, Ibaka and Fournier are our most capable and accomplished guys within those starters. I think the reason for our struggles is because those two aren't good enough to be top 2 contributors on a winning team. Ibaka couldn't get it done with Westbrook when Durant was out, so expecting him to be able to do so on his own here is probably just unfair. Fournier is learning how to be a primary option and playmaker, and he's still learning how to see the court better.

Biyombo is still learning, too. I won't lie, I wish Vogel had turned him into more of a defensive beast, but at 24 there's still plenty of time for him to take a big step. Looking at this comparison to other defensive C's, he seems to be right in the thick of things across the board.

For Gordon,I looked up this comparison of Gordon to the likes of Kawhi, Paul George, Giannis and Rodney Hood at age 21* (Giannis started getting major minutes much earlier, so I looked at him at age 20, and Hood was 22 as a rookie, so that's the season I went with). In terms of Per36 numbers, it's a pretty damn even race. However, when you look at advanced stats, Gordon is last or 2nd last in nearly all of them. Still, he seems to be on the right path in his development, we just need to be patient whilst he puts it all together.

For Payton, I looked up a comparison for Payton, too, to the likes of Lowry, Kemba, Conley, Reggie Jackson and Bledsoe, all at age 22. These are all starting quality PGs who aren't superstars, but are stars on winning teams (or have been, except for Bledsoe). Elf ranks amongst the top 3 in most categories (except 3pt shooting) in Per36 and Advanced stats. So he's clearly on the right track in his development and rate of progress.

Now, for some perspective, Kemba didn't lead Charlotte to a winning season until he was 25, in his 5th year. Conley until his 4th year. Lowry didn't get to start until he was 24, where he lead Houston to two .500+ seasons but failed to make the playoffs. He didn't make the playoffs until his 2nd season with Toronto, at age 27. Reggie Jackson was 25 before you could say he lead his own team to the playoffs.

Our team is currently built with two guys carrying the load (three including Vuc) who aren't quite up to the task, but because of that they're also best prepared to step aside once AG and EP are ready to take the reigns. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like either of those two will be ready to do that this season on a consistent basis.

I haven't even touched on Vuc, who's improved defensively and who's presence off the bench gives us a starting caliber scorer on the floor at all times. It's a shame it's a bad season for him offensively, but he's still doing great in his role, IMO.

I don't have any answers for our troubles. The one thing I would like to see Vogel do is to get the team playing defense again. This team needs to forge an identity of all-in defense, and anyone who's lagging behind or not pulling their weight needs to be pulled back into the fold or pushed out into the cold.

What an pile of cherry picked stats to trow positive twist on awful situation.

First you use Biyombo example and trow names like Mark Gasol and Mutombo just because they fit your narrative. Mark Gasol at age of 24 WAS A FREAKING ROOKIE. Mutombo DIDN'T EVEN PLAY IN NBA . Why not use Drummond and Gobert? I know why, because they look Biyombo look like scrub . Tyson Chandler at age of 24 averaged 12 rpg, 1,8 bpg on 62% TS? How is any of that anywhere close to Biyombo ?
Biyombo can't even catch a damn ball, let alone come close to 60% TS.

I agree on Ibaka and Evan thing. It was clear from gates. They can't carry a team . They are complimentary players.

Elfrid Payton. Yes he is 22. In vacuum. He is 44 days away from 23. Players you compared him with at age of 23:
Kemba Walker 17,7ppg, 6 apg , horrific team tho.
Eric Bledsoe on start of his career played behind that guy, don't know did you ever hear about him, you know, Chris Paul guy? First season as starter : 17,7ppg ,5,5 apg ,4,7 rpg 57,8% TS . Payton can only dream about that stats.
Mike Conley 23, 13,7 ppg, 6,5 apg, 1,8 steal. Not great TS ( 52% ) but in general Memphis was always team that struggled with offense, but not big deal since they were playoff team ( lost in 7 games in second round vs OKC )
Reggie Jackson, again ,you simply charry pick players that fit your narrative. Another Eric Bledose situation. Dude played on team where RUSSELL WESTBROOK PLAYED HIS POSITION. As soon as he left- boom 17,6 ppg - 9,2 apg.

SO it only leaves us with Lowry. Player that was overweight half of his career and who was never given fair shot at starting job because he was late first round pick. He didn't have "honor" to start because he was high pick like Payton had. But in 2010-11 when he got chance to showcase his talent,at age of 24 he had over 13 ppg ,6 apg, on 55% TS.
Let me remind you what Payton is. He is soon to be 23 years old player on 11 ppg ,5,8 apg , 50% TS. So as you can see, he is worst than any of players you picked.

Last but not least, Gordon and his player comparison

First you picked two players ( George and Leonard ) who were drafted year after Gordon, at age of 20, not 19 like Gordon. Their stats at year 3 were much better overall and by advanced stats than Gordon stats are,despite them playing on actually competitive, playoff teams ( one was even strong contender for ring ). Paul George had to play behind former allstar Danny Granger for first two years. Leonard, at year 3 had one of highest TS% among all players in the league ,who are not centers. George by year 3 had 17 ppg , 7rpg, 4,4 apg, on 53% TS. So again how is that anywhere near to 11 ppg ,4,6 rpg, 1,9 apg player on 50% TS?

Trowing Giannis there is laughable. Giannis is 10 months older than Gordon. TEN MONTHS. Giannis is ALLSTAR THIS YEAR. . Giannis last year WAS YOUNGER than Aaron is THIS year. And still had 17 ppg, 7,7 rpg and 4,3 rpg. So younger Giannis had 6 ppg, 3 rpg and 2,4 apg MORE than Gordon has now.
PER 36 is usless stat 99% of time. Last year BOban Marjanović had PER 36 of prime Hakeem.


This team is dumpster fire of players that can't fit next to each other with litreally no offensive or defensive scheme , where , for some reason Green still isn't regular member of DNP club and team is happy that 30 years old vet follow one good game by 5 stinkers ( Meeks). This team happens to be THIRD MOST EXPENSIVE TEAM on East, on 4th worst record in same conference.
Average age on Magic team is 26,0 years. For example , Raptors and Celtics are contenders with average age LOWER than Magic. Blazers are full year younger ( 25,0) . But , as you can see if you look at average age, most of teams are are between 25 and 27 years, and that's where Magic are, not too young and not too old team. Bound for nowhere.

Someone need to get laid

What I got from pepe's post is that we should get Boban. This team could really use prime Hakeem.

Bensational wrote:

drsd wrote:If the real solution is "be patient," well, GM Hennigan loses his job. He created this young roster and he only needs to live with the consequences of his actions.

The thing is, there's only 3 options out there (that I can see):


1) Be patient, but try to compete: Whilst we wait for AG and EP to be ready to take the reigns and lead us into competitive basketball, we surround them with the right supporting cast who are strong enough to carry the team in the short term, but who can step aside and be good secondary players when the time comes. This is what we're currently doing, but it's obviously not working out too well.

2) Keep AG and EP as the future, but upgrade our "ready now" guys for better players who can carry a team now. This is the equivalent of Kawhi having Duncan/Manu/Parker carrying the load during his early seasons. Kawhi was 23 when he made the jump from a 12.8ppg scorer to a 16.5ppg scorer. He was 24 when he became a 21.2ppg scorer. In the short term, Kawhi focused on becoming an elite defensive presence. This would require making moves like trading Ibaka for Millsap and Fournier for Wade. Gives us 2 guys who are older but still capable of playing at a reasonably elite level, and by the time their games really drop off a cliff (in a season or 2), AG and EP should be ready to take over.

3) Hand the keys over to AG and EP and deal with the W's or L's as they come. This would entail removing any other 'alpha' personalities (like Fournier/Vuc/Ibaka/etc) that the guys might defer to, or who might want to claim the role of leader, and allowing the young guys to find their way. Milwaukee did it with Giannis, Indiana did it with George.

If EP had a Jump Shot and AG's play at the 3 mirrored a Shawn Marion type player we wouldn't be in this mess.

Are we really that far off from expectations? Let's be real. Generally speaking, most NBA experts and other team's fans pegged as a lottery team this year when the season began. WE were the ones being hopeful of more, but that was NOT the universal feeling.

Face it. Those fans that are upset right now, need to readjust their expectations to reality. Maybe it's deflating because it takes a knock at your ego and where you thought we'd be, but take a bit of that humble pie, and stop with the nonsense whining.

I keep saying this over and over, but it's true. This season was/is all about developing Payton and Gordon and helping them to take a big step forward. We have seen flashes of it, and the inconsistency is maddening, but it has been happening... just a bit slower than most Magic fans were optimistically hoping for.

People don't like to be patient, but that's actually the reality of sports. For some reason, some fans think 5 years is the standard for turning a team around, and that just isn't true.

Problem is you can't be patient when the roster clearly does not fit together.

Payton isn't going to suddenly learn to be a lights out shooter, neither is Gordon. They are both improving but are they really going to become a legit threat from outside? Neither of them look like they will ever be go to offensive weapons and neither look like they will be true stars compared to how the majority of other stars looked after the same amount of time in the league.

We have a team full of 3rd/4th option guys on offence and that just isn't going to work in the NBA, we aren't good enough to lure a big name star and we aren't bad enough to tank for a legit star in the draft.

At this point i'd rather we blow it up and properly tank with our young guys again but management won't allow that, either that or pray that a star requests a trade and we can swing a big deal for them (unlikely).

As i see it now we are just in a position where management is likely to force hennigan to trade pieces for another mediocre vet (like Rudy Gay level) and we will be competing for the 8th seed for 2-3 years before we can full rebuild again.

Trading Oladipo and Harris was fine imo but they had no plan to it, they panic traded Harris for no real value and the Dipo trade was heavily one sided (ibaka for dipo straight up was fairer imo).

Hell if the team had been better thought out (it was obvious a deal was needed way back with how this team was constructed) they should have put together a real trade package of dipo, harris, pick that ended up sabonis and maybe dedmon. You'd think with the guys we let walk/traded for barely anything in the last couple of seasons they could have made an attractive package of young guys and picks.