RealGM

Hadn't posted for a while, Cousins trade infuriated me. I was a big apologist for Henny, but this was the last straw.

It is either him screwing up OR Martin's pressure making things worse--in either case, Henny's got to go. I don't care if he is spineless or short-sighted, the conclusion is the same.

You don't think Vic, Tobias, and a protected 1st couldn't have gotten Cousins? Instead Henny chose to be screwed by his idols for a person who declined drastically in production and visibly from a physical perspective.

Nobody in their right mind can argue that Cousins trade would be ANY worse then Ibaka trade, which might be the worst trade in Magic history. Even that trade that brought in JRich and Hedo had a logic behind it.

Anyway, that is what I think. What would you rather have? Try not to consider that last Ibaka trade when responding, because that introduces a bit of a hindsight issue.

Reverse_Angle wrote:Hadn't posted for a while, Cousins trade infuriated me. I was a big apologist for Henny, but this was the last straw.

It is either him screwing up OR Martin's pressure making things worse--in either case, Henny's got to go. I don't care if he is spineless or short-sighted, the conclusion is the same.

You don't think Vic, Tobias, and a protected 1st couldn't have gotten Cousins? Instead Henny chose to be screwed by his idols for a person who declined drastically in production and visibly from a physical perspective.

Nobody in their right mind can argue that Cousins trade would be ANY worse then Ibaka trade, which might be the worst trade in Magic history. Even that trade that brought in JRich and Hedo had a logic behind it.

Anyway, that is what I think. What would you rather have? Try not to consider that last Ibaka trade when responding, because that introduces a bit of a hindsight issue.

Got a present for you bro. It helps with the pain.

If Henny woulda played his cards like a RealGM, then he coulda had both and probably traded Green/DJ for Reggie Jackson.

Reverse_Angle wrote:Hadn't posted for a while, Cousins trade infuriated me. I was a big apologist for Henny, but this was the last straw.

It is either him screwing up OR Martin's pressure making things worse--in either case, Henny's got to go. I don't care if he is spineless or short-sighted, the conclusion is the same.

You don't think Vic, Tobias, and a protected 1st couldn't have gotten Cousins? Instead Henny chose to be screwed by his idols for a person who declined drastically in production and visibly from a physical perspective.

Nobody in their right mind can argue that Cousins trade would be ANY worse then Ibaka trade, which might be the worst trade in Magic history. Even that trade that brought in JRich and Hedo had a logic behind it.

Anyway, that is what I think. What would you rather have? Try not to consider that last Ibaka trade when responding, because that introduces a bit of a hindsight issue.

Henni would have to be a prophet to know this would happen.

Two, they are clearly not what the Kings are looking for. Vic and Tobias are what 35 million combined? The Kings are looking to create cap space thats why Tyreke was in the deal.

As bad as this trade is, I think we have to be objective in criticizing Hennigan and understanding the situation that thisnorganization doesnt want another Dwightmare.

I guess every GM in the NBA not named Dell Demps should be fired.

There are a few things we can criticize Hennigan for, but this isn't one of them. 28 other teams didn't trade for Cousins either despite most having assets that seem at least as good as the package that landed Cousins. Should all of those teams' fans be calling for their GM's resignation as well?

Even if the Magic were interested in trading for Cousins, that doesn't mean that the Kings would be interested in a package that we perceive would have equal value to the New Orleans deal. Different GM's value different players differently. For whatever reason, it seems as though the Kings valued Buddy Hield a lot, perhaps more than anyone on the Magic's entire roster.

fendilim wrote:

Reverse_Angle wrote:Hadn't posted for a while, Cousins trade infuriated me. I was a big apologist for Henny, but this was the last straw.

It is either him screwing up OR Martin's pressure making things worse--in either case, Henny's got to go. I don't care if he is spineless or short-sighted, the conclusion is the same.

You don't think Vic, Tobias, and a protected 1st couldn't have gotten Cousins? Instead Henny chose to be screwed by his idols for a person who declined drastically in production and visibly from a physical perspective.

Nobody in their right mind can argue that Cousins trade would be ANY worse then Ibaka trade, which might be the worst trade in Magic history. Even that trade that brought in JRich and Hedo had a logic behind it.

Anyway, that is what I think. What would you rather have? Try not to consider that last Ibaka trade when responding, because that introduces a bit of a hindsight issue.

Henni would have to be a prophet to know this would happen.

Two, they are clearly not what the Kings are looking for. Vic and Tobias are what 35 million combined? The Kings are looking to create cap space thats why Tyreke was in the deal.

As bad as this trade is, I think we have to be objective in criticizing Hennigan and understanding the situation that thisnorganization doesnt want another Dwightmare.

I guess every GM in the NBA not named Dell Demps should be fired.

Sacramento was willing to trade for Vuc and Fournier who both have long term contracts . and cousins being traded has been rumored for at least a year so it's not that big of a surprise . There was no reason for the magic to abandon the youth movement and cash in their assets for non stars . Look at Boston they have refused to trade there young assetts unless it's for a star and it is working out perfectly for them .

fendilim wrote:

Reverse_Angle wrote:Hadn't posted for a while, Cousins trade infuriated me. I was a big apologist for Henny, but this was the last straw.

It is either him screwing up OR Martin's pressure making things worse--in either case, Henny's got to go. I don't care if he is spineless or short-sighted, the conclusion is the same.

You don't think Vic, Tobias, and a protected 1st couldn't have gotten Cousins? Instead Henny chose to be screwed by his idols for a person who declined drastically in production and visibly from a physical perspective.

Nobody in their right mind can argue that Cousins trade would be ANY worse then Ibaka trade, which might be the worst trade in Magic history. Even that trade that brought in JRich and Hedo had a logic behind it.

Anyway, that is what I think. What would you rather have? Try not to consider that last Ibaka trade when responding, because that introduces a bit of a hindsight issue.

Henni would have to be a prophet to know this would happen.

Two, they are clearly not what the Kings are looking for. Vic and Tobias are what 35 million combined? The Kings are looking to create cap space thats why Tyreke was in the deal.

As bad as this trade is, I think we have to be objective in criticizing Hennigan and understanding the situation that thisnorganization doesnt want another Dwightmare.

I guess every GM in the NBA not named Dell Demps should be fired.

every other gms arent mentioned in this rumor
Henny created this roster with flexibility to do what?
Green deal was made for such situation we had it all.Cheap contracts picks expirings you name it we got it and he said no.
Like this team could get any worse after that deal lol
He can trade Harris and Ibaka for basicly nothing but he cant trade Evan and Vuc for nothing?(im talking about worse case scenario which propably woudnt be the case)
That trade would open many other options to go for.

fendilim wrote:

Reverse_Angle wrote:Hadn't posted for a while, Cousins trade infuriated me. I was a big apologist for Henny, but this was the last straw.

It is either him screwing up OR Martin's pressure making things worse--in either case, Henny's got to go. I don't care if he is spineless or short-sighted, the conclusion is the same.

You don't think Vic, Tobias, and a protected 1st couldn't have gotten Cousins? Instead Henny chose to be screwed by his idols for a person who declined drastically in production and visibly from a physical perspective.

Nobody in their right mind can argue that Cousins trade would be ANY worse then Ibaka trade, which might be the worst trade in Magic history. Even that trade that brought in JRich and Hedo had a logic behind it.

Anyway, that is what I think. What would you rather have? Try not to consider that last Ibaka trade when responding, because that introduces a bit of a hindsight issue.

Henni would have to be a prophet to know this would happen.

Two, they are clearly not what the Kings are looking for. Vic and Tobias are what 35 million combined? The Kings are looking to create cap space thats why Tyreke was in the deal.

As bad as this trade is, I think we have to be objective in criticizing Hennigan and understanding the situation that thisnorganization doesnt want another Dwightmare.

I guess every GM in the NBA not named Dell Demps should be fired.

Let's just forget the actual pieces of the trade to get Cousins in Orlando, because it is not an argument most would agree on and it is hypothetical. But if they wanted cap space, vuc and green could have done it, too. Still a better offer than what they got for Cousins--they can at least sell Vuc to their base.

As for your main point: Henny didn't have to be a prophet. He just needed to be patient and savvy with our assets--like he did with Dwight trade. Ibaka trade never made sense. That actually makes me think this is on Martins, but as I said, the reason is not relevant in this context.

Here's the problem. If you're right and Henny is being ordered around by Martins then what's the use of firing Henny? If you don't get rid of Martins then we're just going to see the same crap with the next GM. Cut off the head of the snake.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Blue_and_Whte wrote:Here's the problem. If you're right and Henny is being ordered around by Martins then what's the use of firing Henny? If you don't get rid of Martins then we're just going to see the same crap with the next GM. Cut off the head of the snake.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Where are the "Fire Martins" sigs when you need them...

It's true, the Magic have mismanaged assets over the last 2 years and played themselves out of being able to bid highly for players like Cousins.

OrlandO wrote:

Blue_and_Whte wrote:Here's the problem. If you're right and Henny is being ordered around by Martins then what's the use of firing Henny? If you don't get rid of Martins then we're just going to see the same crap with the next GM. Cut off the head of the snake.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Where are the "Fire Martins" sigs when you need them...

That is the real sig that needs to be created.

Don't blame the Magic for the Kings incompetence. It's like blaming the Magic for Billy King destroying the Nets for a decade.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Optimus_Steel wrote:Don't blame the Magic for the Kings incompetence. It's like blaming the Magic for Billy King destroying the Nets for a decade.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

So, is it ok to blame Henny for destroying the Magic for a decade?

I don't really get the Cousins thing. We have nothing to put around him, and he would've demanded a mega-max contract - or put us in a Serge Ibaka situation - a year from now. And instead of having a top-4 pick in a few months, we'd have like the 11th pick. Actually no, Sac probably would've wanted our first rounder. Even worse.

Become 'Kings East' and then trade the guy at next year's deadline for pennies on the dollar? No thanks. Because it's the Magic and deep down you KNOW that's what would've happened...

MagicMadness wrote:I don't really get the Cousins thing. We have nothing to put around him, and he would demand a mega-max contract - or put us in a Serge Ibaka situation - a year from now. And instead of having a top-4 pick in a few months, we'd have like the 11th pick. Actually no, Sac probably would've wanted our first rounder. Even worse.

Become 'Kings East' and then trade the guy at next year's deadline for pennies on the dollar? No thanks. Because it's the Magic and deep down you KNOW that's what would've happened...

No disrespect, but if that's the logic we might as well sell the franchise and move the team. We could have had Boogie AND Ibaka. Coming into the season the goal was to make the playoffs. Saying "he'd just leave after a year and a half" is like saying you wouldn't talk to a hot chick because deep down she deserves better than you. You have a year and a half to be the man you think she deserves.

We didn't trade for Ibaka with the thought that we would be drafting in the Top 5 after the season. By not making a play for Cousins early in the season, it automatically made the Ibaka trade worthless, because as I said in October, the team wasn't good enough as constructed. Players are more prone to stay when there's other talent on the team.

I'm pretty sure we could have thrown Hezonja into the trade mix if they like Buddy Hield. Crazy thing is the Pelicans got Omri Casspi too. That makes Terrence Jones expendable....I can assure you New Orleans isn't done.

BadMofoPimp wrote:

Optimus_Steel wrote:Don't blame the Magic for the Kings incompetence. It's like blaming the Magic for Billy King destroying the Nets for a decade.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

So, is it ok to blame Henny for destroying the Magic for a decade?

Yes but that's all self inflicted wounds and only half a a decade so far.

JAY DASH wrote:

MagicMadness wrote:I don't really get the Cousins thing. We have nothing to put around him, and he would demand a mega-max contract - or put us in a Serge Ibaka situation - a year from now. And instead of having a top-4 pick in a few months, we'd have like the 11th pick. Actually no, Sac probably would've wanted our first rounder. Even worse.

Become 'Kings East' and then trade the guy at next year's deadline for pennies on the dollar? No thanks. Because it's the Magic and deep down you KNOW that's what would've happened...

No disrespect, but if that's the logic we might as well sell the franchise and move the team. We could have had Boogie AND Ibaka. Coming into the season the goal was to make the playoffs. Saying "he'd just leave after a year and a half" is like saying you wouldn't talk to a hot chick because deep down she deserves better than you. You have a year and a half to be the man you think she deserves.

We didn't trade for Ibaka with the thought that we would be drafting in the Top 5 after the season. By not making a play for Cousins early in the season, it automatically made the Ibaka trade worthless, because as I said in October, the team wasn't good enough as constructed. Players are more prone to stay when there's other talent on the team.

I'm pretty sure we could have thrown Hezonja into the trade mix if they like Buddy Hield. Crazy thing is the Pelicans got Omri Casspi too. That makes Terrence Jones expendable....I can assure you New Orleans isn't done.

I meant if we had made the trade right now, sans Ibaka.

The topic title asked if we would rather have had Ibaka, or had Cousins. Yes, I'd rather have had Cousins at the BEGINNING of the season, instead of Ibaka. Both together would have been even better! But as of today, no, I don't think making a trade over the weekend for Cousins would have worked out well for us. It would have been a desperate move by Hennigan to save his job, and likely would've amounted to nothing but a Kings-like dump sale a year from now.

MagicMadness wrote:

JAY DASH wrote:

MagicMadness wrote:I don't really get the Cousins thing. We have nothing to put around him, and he would demand a mega-max contract - or put us in a Serge Ibaka situation - a year from now. And instead of having a top-4 pick in a few months, we'd have like the 11th pick. Actually no, Sac probably would've wanted our first rounder. Even worse.

Become 'Kings East' and then trade the guy at next year's deadline for pennies on the dollar? No thanks. Because it's the Magic and deep down you KNOW that's what would've happened...

No disrespect, but if that's the logic we might as well sell the franchise and move the team. We could have had Boogie AND Ibaka. Coming into the season the goal was to make the playoffs. Saying "he'd just leave after a year and a half" is like saying you wouldn't talk to a hot chick because deep down she deserves better than you. You have a year and a half to be the man you think she deserves.

We didn't trade for Ibaka with the thought that we would be drafting in the Top 5 after the season. By not making a play for Cousins early in the season, it automatically made the Ibaka trade worthless, because as I said in October, the team wasn't good enough as constructed. Players are more prone to stay when there's other talent on the team.

I'm pretty sure we could have thrown Hezonja into the trade mix if they like Buddy Hield. Crazy thing is the Pelicans got Omri Casspi too. That makes Terrence Jones expendable....I can assure you New Orleans isn't done.

I meant if we had made the trade right now, sans Ibaka.

The topic title asked if we would rather have had Ibaka, or had Cousins. Yes, I'd rather have had Cousins at the BEGINNING of the season, instead of Ibaka. Both together would have been even better! But as of today, no, I don't think making a trade over the weekend for Cousins would have worked out well for us. It would have been a desperate move by Hennigan to save his job, and likely would've amounted to nothing but a Kings-like dump sale a year from now.

I can understand that. I guess I'm going more on the talks that we could have traded for Boogie earlier in the season. Right now is pretty much too late because we're 25 games away from a Top 5 pick... I can agree with that.