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Given that the Magic are likely to be picking in the 5-7 range (assuming they don't get Top 3), our options for a wing may be gone, unless it's Isaac. My prediction is that Fultz, Ball, Jackson, and Tatum all go Top 4 (in some order). Which leaves Fox, Smith Jr., Isaac, and Monk the likely players in our range. My question though is if we were to go for a PG, would either Fox or Smith Jr. really be upgrades over Payton, or more like lateral moves? To me personally I think it may be more lateral, but do either have better shooting ability/potential, and or are better playmakers/defenders?

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I think Fox is a slight upgrade as a shooter, downgrade as a passer, bigger upgrade as a defender. I believe he has a killer instinct that i havent seen in Payton and looks to bring it every night.

tiderulz wrote:I think Fox is a slight upgrade as a shooter, downgrade as a passer, bigger upgrade as a defender. I believe he has a killer instinct that i havent seen in Payton and looks to bring it every night.

I heard Bill Simmons saying stuff like that on his podcast and likened Fox to Westbrook as freak athletes who really give a sh*t 100% of the time.

OrlandoNed wrote:

tiderulz wrote:I think Fox is a slight upgrade as a shooter, downgrade as a passer, bigger upgrade as a defender. I believe he has a killer instinct that i havent seen in Payton and looks to bring it every night.

I heard Bill Simmons saying stuff like that on his podcast and likened Fox to Westbrook as freak athletes who really give a sh*t 100% of the time.

Thats what I've been saying for a few weeks to people. Fox has some deficiencies, but with that level of athlete you can throw him out there and use him like Russ (not saying thats how good he is).

I don't get why so many people compare Fox to Payton other than subpar shooting. By the end of the year Fox was drilling shots anyway. But Fox is a superior athlete with elite quickness. I don't have much of a doubt he will be better than Payton. Dude is a really good athlete with an already improving shot from what I have seen.

TodGre wrote:Given that the Magic are likely to be picking in the 5-7 range (assuming they don't get Top 3), our options for a wing may be gone, unless it's Isaac. My prediction is that Fultz, Ball, Jackson, and Tatum all go Top 4 (in some order). Which leaves Fox, Smith Jr., Isaac, and Monk the likely players in our range. My question though is if we were to go for a PG, would either Fox or Smith Jr. really be upgrades over Payton, or more like lateral moves? To me personally I think it may be more lateral, but do either have better shooting ability/potential, and or are better playmakers/defenders?

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Yes. I think DSJ is gonna be Lillard 2.0

I never saw Payton show this much emotion. But then again, Adam Morrison also cried after a tourney loss.

Of course it's not whether Payton is better than DSJ or Fox it's whether Payton + whatever wing the Magic draft is better than DSJ/Fox + replacement wing. I think it's the former even if the Magic roll with Isaac.

I think both have the potential to be better than Payton, I think Fox is a sure bet to be the better player.

I'll take Fultz or Ball over Elf but I'm not really in love with Fox or Smith.

If we do fall to #5-7 with those 4 top names off the board then my hope would be to see Isaac paired with Gordon.

MagicFan101 wrote:I'll take Fultz or Ball over Elf but I'm not really in love with Fox or Smith.

If we do fall to #5-7 with those 4 top names off the board then my hope would be to see Isaac paired with Gordon.

This has been exactly what I've been thinking as well. Though I'm not against looking at Monk to pair next to Elf, or possibly replace Elf at PG down the road.

Fox is a worse shooter than Payton. But DJS is an improvement over Payton for sure. Not even a question mark.

The issue is we need a star 2 way SF.

I could see DSJ ceiling being higher, huge question marks whether he can get there. Looks so much like Steve Francis out there, before the crack binge.

The1llness wrote:

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I never saw Payton show this much emotion. But then again, Adam Morrison also cried after a tourney loss.

Of course it's not whether Payton is better than DSJ or Fox it's whether Payton + whatever wing the Magic draft is better than DSJ/Fox + replacement wing. I think it's the former even if the Magic roll with Isaac.

or emotions in general. lol

well crap.... this was a +1 in my book. If we get him.... i can smile now.
And yes.... this kind of stuff factors in a lot for me... when mingled with talent.

Ok ok ok.... Isaac or Fox. But i would like a strong bid at sf.... and i think isaac's abilities will look great on our team!

DSJ has a much higher offensive ceiling

He has everything you want in a modern PG

I reckon DSJr is gonna be a massive flop. I've been wrong before, but that's my what my gut tells me. I'm sure one of Fox/DSJr/Monk will surprise, but which one it is, I've got no idea.

If we're out of the top 4, hopefully we can either package our pick + Vuc/Fournier to move up into a top 4 guy, or we can package them for someone who can actually already play basketball at a good level.

He is rare example of such a young player where you see clear case of ambidexterity. His finishing around rim is so damn nice. His shooting... oh well, work in progress i guess, but i'm more willing to bet that 19 years old player will improve his shooting than somebody who spent 3 years in nba and already is 23, with still horrific shooting percentages from outside.


I like him more than Isaac.

Do Magic need SF? Yes, but Magic have nothing close to a star so drafting position of need is pointless when you need litreally everything and most important- star. And IMO guys like Jackson and Fox have some star potential. I'm not sold on Ball or Isaac. Tatum to me looks like copy past Porter. They even look similar.

I will take the triple double threat over a rookie replacement who may or may not be successful in the NBA. There are more glaring needs on this team as Elf is a solid PG to me.

BadMofoPimp wrote:I will take the triple double threat over a rookie replacement who may or may not be successful in the NBA. There are more glaring needs on this team as Elf is a solid PG to me.

Would you ,by same logic, take Westbrook over Durant or Curry or Jordan?
Triple doubles are collection of 10 + stats because of human weird fascination with round numbers. Nothing more.

Drafting position of need is luxury that teams with clear cut star have, Magic are not one of them. Magic have to land star in this years draft, and if that happens to be PG , so be it.

We need to draft BPA for this roster.

If we move from EP we need to draft a pg and I would sooner go with Fultz or DSJr. We have no go-to players offensively for us to have a Fox type of pg run the show in this era of guards.

If we keep EP (likely) we need a wing in the worst way. We haven't had a true SF since Turk in my opinion. One of Jackson, Tatum, or Isaac will drop to us. I pray it's between Tatum and Jackson. If not, we are overpaying a SF in free agency.

I don't understand the fascination with Fox unless he is surrounded by talent in other positions. We don't have enough to surround him with.

DJS would give this team a hard nosed - we won't take crap from you - kind of identity... something this team sorely lacks...

A leader with a backbone.

If we don't win the lottery and he's there at 5, we should take him and not look back. I like Payton, but I start tapping the lines to drum up a trade for a SF. Payton, Fournier and Vuc for Paul George? Would Indy take that?

bpa....does fox and dsj have more star potential? imo no question they do but at this point it's all conjecture. I think we dont really need a point guard because elf played well enough to keep his spot 1 more season. On the flipside if we're at 5 and tatum is gone all bets are off, it then becomes a question of what our scouts and talent evaluators are telling us. what makes my skin crawl is that these upcoming decisions should NOT be taken lightly and yet that press conference did NOT give the feeling they had a sense of urgency