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50 minutes of Tmac scoring the ball in a variety of ways. I posted this on the Player comparison board along with a detailed writeup, but I assumed that some of the older fans on this board would enjoy it too. So what do you guys think of Tracy McGrady? Is he still revered by Magic fans, or is he thought of like Dwight Howard?

I wish we can have another player like him.

Love T-Mac, always will

second round baby, second round

axl_c_cool wrote:Love T-Mac, always will

Me too, I just wish he stayed. With us still picking Howard, would have loved to see what they could have done.

Nemesis21 wrote:

axl_c_cool wrote:Love T-Mac, always will

Me too, I just wish he stayed. With us still picking Howard, would have loved to see what they could have done.

PG - Nelson
SG - T-Mac
SF - Hill (finally healthy), Hedo
PF - Gooden/Juwan?
C - Dwight

JaxMagic wrote:

Nemesis21 wrote:

axl_c_cool wrote:Love T-Mac, always will

Me too, I just wish he stayed. With us still picking Howard, would have loved to see what they could have done.

PG - Nelson
SG - T-Mac
SF - Hill (finally healthy), Hedo
PF - Gooden/Juwan?
C - Dwight

Or if we had convinced Duncan to sign like he almost did. There supposedly was a plan to sign all three. Even with Hill going out that would have been so sick....

magicman112 wrote:

JaxMagic wrote:

Nemesis21 wrote:

Me too, I just wish he stayed. With us still picking Howard, would have loved to see what they could have done.

PG - Nelson
SG - T-Mac
SF - Hill (finally healthy), Hedo
PF - Gooden/Juwan?
C - Dwight

Or if we had convinced Duncan to sign like he almost did. There supposedly was a plan to sign all three. Even with Hill going out that would have been so sick....

Or if the Magic didn't break up the heart and hustle team by going after Hill/Duncan and instead just signed T-Mac and drafted Mike Miller lol

PG - Armstrong/Atkins/Billups (?)
SG - McGrady/Maggette
SF - Miller/Harpring
PF - Outlaw/Garrity
C - B.Wallace/M.Doleac

Plus a crap ton of draft picks to try and improve the PF spot (Amare, Z.Rudolph, etc)

JaxMagic wrote:

Nemesis21 wrote:

axl_c_cool wrote:Love T-Mac, always will

Me too, I just wish he stayed. With us still picking Howard, would have loved to see what they could have done.

PG - Nelson
SG - T-Mac
SF - Hill (finally healthy), Hedo
PF - Gooden/Juwan?
C - Dwight

This would have been amazing. I always wondered why T-Mac didn't wanna stay and see what he could do with the #1 pick.

dread321 wrote:

JaxMagic wrote:

Nemesis21 wrote:

Me too, I just wish he stayed. With us still picking Howard, would have loved to see what they could have done.

PG - Nelson
SG - T-Mac
SF - Hill (finally healthy), Hedo
PF - Gooden/Juwan?
C - Dwight

This would have been amazing. I always wondered why T-Mac didn't wanna stay and see what he could do with the #1 pick.

He checked out a year earlier. That's why we got the top pick.

Xatticus wrote:

dread321 wrote:

JaxMagic wrote:
PG - Nelson
SG - T-Mac
SF - Hill (finally healthy), Hedo
PF - Gooden/Juwan?
C - Dwight

This would have been amazing. I always wondered why T-Mac didn't wanna stay and see what he could do with the #1 pick.

He checked out a year earlier. That's why we got the top pick.

What? Before we traded T-Mac, we knew we were getting the #1 pick. IF he did stay he favored Oakfor over a less known high schooler.

Nemesis21 wrote:

Xatticus wrote:

dread321 wrote:
This would have been amazing. I always wondered why T-Mac didn't wanna stay and see what he could do with the #1 pick.

He checked out a year earlier. That's why we got the top pick.

What? Before we traded T-Mac, we knew we were getting the #1 pick. IF he did stay he favored Oakfor over a less known high schooler.

I mean that he was basically tanking for his last year in Orlando, which is why we lost 61 games and nabbed the top pick. He wanted out and there was no convincing him to change his mind.

Xatticus wrote:

Nemesis21 wrote:

Xatticus wrote:
He checked out a year earlier. That's why we got the top pick.

What? Before we traded T-Mac, we knew we were getting the #1 pick. IF he did stay he favored Oakfor over a less known high schooler.

I mean that he was basically tanking for his last year in Orlando, which is why we lost 61 games and nabbed the top pick. He wanted out and there was no convincing him to change his mind.

Umm... if you classify 28ppg 6rpg 6apg while shooting 42 FG % 34 3pt % and leading the league in scoring as tanking, then damn every player should tank and put up those numbers. We lost 61 games because there was no talent around him. His best friend, Mike Miller and two draft picks were traded the year before he left for Gooden and Giricek. His coach and GM wasted two #15 picks on Steven Hunter and Reese Gaines in 2001 and 2003. Could have taken Tony Parker(28) in 2001 and Boris Diaw(21) in 2003.

Parker
D Stevenson
T Mac
Diaw
Zaza

Maybe he would have stayed, if his coach and GM put talent around him.

Nemesis21 wrote:

Xatticus wrote:

Nemesis21 wrote:

What? Before we traded T-Mac, we knew we were getting the #1 pick. IF he did stay he favored Oakfor over a less known high schooler.

I mean that he was basically tanking for his last year in Orlando, which is why we lost 61 games and nabbed the top pick. He wanted out and there was no convincing him to change his mind.

Umm... if you classify 28ppg 6rpg 6apg while shooting 42 FG % 34 3pt % and leading the league in scoring as tanking, then damn every player should tank and put up those numbers. We lost 61 games because there was no talent around him. His best friend, Mike Miller and two draft picks were traded the year before he left for Gooden and Giricek. His coach and GM wasted two #15 picks on Steven Hunter and Reese Gaines in 2001 and 2003. Could have taken Tony Parker(28) in 2001 and Boris Diaw(21) in 2003.

Parker
D Stevenson
T Mac
Diaw
Zaza

Maybe he would have stayed, if his coach and GM put talent around him.

I'm not disputing that the rest of the team was bad. It was very bad. But I watched pretty much every Magic game at that point in my life and his play was dreadful that year. His efficiency plummeted because he was settling for pull ups. He put in zero effort when the ball wasn't in his hands. He wanted out and made no secret of it. Nobody was going to get him to buy back into the team.

Xatticus wrote:

Nemesis21 wrote:

Xatticus wrote:
I mean that he was basically tanking for his last year in Orlando, which is why we lost 61 games and nabbed the top pick. He wanted out and there was no convincing him to change his mind.

Umm... if you classify 28ppg 6rpg 6apg while shooting 42 FG % 34 3pt % and leading the league in scoring as tanking, then damn every player should tank and put up those numbers. We lost 61 games because there was no talent around him. His best friend, Mike Miller and two draft picks were traded the year before he left for Gooden and Giricek. His coach and GM wasted two #15 picks on Steven Hunter and Reese Gaines in 2001 and 2003. Could have taken Tony Parker(28) in 2001 and Boris Diaw(21) in 2003.

Parker
D Stevenson
T Mac
Diaw
Zaza

Maybe he would have stayed, if his coach and GM put talent around him.

I'm not disputing that the rest of the team was bad. It was very bad. But I watched pretty much every Magic game at that point in my life and his play was dreadful that year. His efficiency plummeted because he was settling for pull ups. He put in zero effort when the ball wasn't in his hands. He wanted out and made no secret of it. Nobody was going to get him to buy back into the team.

I watched every game too. Poor choice in words with tanking. He led the league in scoring. Hmm why did he want out? I explained most of it in my previous post.

Nemesis21 wrote:

Xatticus wrote:

Nemesis21 wrote:

Umm... if you classify 28ppg 6rpg 6apg while shooting 42 FG % 34 3pt % and leading the league in scoring as tanking, then damn every player should tank and put up those numbers. We lost 61 games because there was no talent around him. His best friend, Mike Miller and two draft picks were traded the year before he left for Gooden and Giricek. His coach and GM wasted two #15 picks on Steven Hunter and Reese Gaines in 2001 and 2003. Could have taken Tony Parker(28) in 2001 and Boris Diaw(21) in 2003.

Parker
D Stevenson
T Mac
Diaw
Zaza

Maybe he would have stayed, if his coach and GM put talent around him.

I'm not disputing that the rest of the team was bad. It was very bad. But I watched pretty much every Magic game at that point in my life and his play was dreadful that year. His efficiency plummeted because he was settling for pull ups. He put in zero effort when the ball wasn't in his hands. He wanted out and made no secret of it. Nobody was going to get him to buy back into the team.

I watched every game too. Poor choice in words with tanking. He led the league in scoring. Hmm why did he want out? I explained most of it in my previous post.

It's frustrating to look back on this and wonder what could have been.

Nemesis21 wrote:

Xatticus wrote:

Nemesis21 wrote:

Umm... if you classify 28ppg 6rpg 6apg while shooting 42 FG % 34 3pt % and leading the league in scoring as tanking, then damn every player should tank and put up those numbers. We lost 61 games because there was no talent around him. His best friend, Mike Miller and two draft picks were traded the year before he left for Gooden and Giricek. His coach and GM wasted two #15 picks on Steven Hunter and Reese Gaines in 2001 and 2003. Could have taken Tony Parker(28) in 2001 and Boris Diaw(21) in 2003.

Parker
D Stevenson
T Mac
Diaw
Zaza

Maybe he would have stayed, if his coach and GM put talent around him.

I'm not disputing that the rest of the team was bad. It was very bad. But I watched pretty much every Magic game at that point in my life and his play was dreadful that year. His efficiency plummeted because he was settling for pull ups. He put in zero effort when the ball wasn't in his hands. He wanted out and made no secret of it. Nobody was going to get him to buy back into the team.

I watched every game too. Poor choice in words with tanking. He led the league in scoring. Hmm why did he want out? I explained most of it in my previous post.

It really isn't a poor choice of words. If McGrady even resembles the player he was the year before, Orlando loses nowhere near 61 games. Does the team lose more games if McGrady wasn't on it in that final year? Probably not. His 3PAr spiked while his attempts at the rim and FTr plummeted along with his defensive and hustle metrics. Jeff Green would've been embarrassed by that level of languidity.

The blame for the dramatic decline lies on the shoulders of Rivers, as far as I'm concerned. He exercised too much control over the draft process and chose poorly. Beyond that, he forced Armstrong out because he believed the best player on the team had to be the leader. McGrady wasn't a leader. The team collapsed under him and he trashed his teammates repeatedly during that final season.

McGrady was always overrated due to his one big season, even though he wasn't really a high efficiency scorer for his career. His career eFG% and TS% were average for the era. He just took a ton of shots.

This is all an aside to the initial question though, which was: What might've happened if we didn't trade McGrady? My argument is that it's irrelevant because the trade was at McGrady's behest. McGrady knew Orlando had the top pick in the draft and didn't care. The situation wasn't reconcilable. So we got "robbed" in the McGrady trade and won 15 more games the following season.

Damn, T-Mac's hater in Orlando forum, wow)
I say you, who was really overrated - it's Kobe and Jordan))

I can imagine in some alternate universe, my two all-time favorite players actually teamed up...

JaxMagic wrote:I can imagine in some alternate universe, my two all-time favorite players actually teamed up...

T-Mac '03 - 9.79 OBPM, Big Ben '03 - 6.98 DBPM.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/obpm_season.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/dbpm_season.html
These '03 playoffs was epic.