Would the magic trade hezonja?

[JAY DASH]

I think we all wanted him to be this 3 point shooting god who can drive and dunk and throw up points like crazy. Obviously, that's not what we got.

I'm hoping he turns out to be an off ball master like Kyle Korver...who can also cut to the basket for a lob and just double his value on the court. Now that I think about it, a player like that would be extremely valuable.

Don't know if this team is the right place though. We seem intent on playing defenders and that's it.

That's really my thing. I'm ok if Mario isn't what we wanted him to be, but there's a place on any team for a 6'8 somewhat athletic sharp shooter...the problem is Mario is a career 32% 3pt. shooter so far. Sure he would look better playing next to a LeBron type, (we saw that with Channing Frye) but we don't have that type of guy on the team to create the open looks. Bottom line is he has to start hitting shots if he wants to play.

[prizm]

I think we all wanted him to be this 3 point shooting god who can drive and dunk and throw up points like crazy. Obviously, that's not what we got.

I'm hoping he turns out to be an off ball master like Kyle Korver...who can also cut to the basket for a lob and just double his value on the court. Now that I think about it, a player like that would be extremely valuable.

Don't know if this team is the right place though. We seem intent on playing defenders and that's it.

That's really my thing. I'm ok if Mario isn't what we wanted him to be, but there's a place on any team for a 6'8 somewhat athletic sharp shooter...the problem is Mario is a career 32% 3pt. shooter so far. Sure he would look better playing next to a LeBron type, (we saw that with Channing Frye) but we don't have that type of guy on the team to create the open looks. Bottom line is he has to start hitting shots if he wants to play.

yea def...i can see other teams being really interested in him...with him deciding to stay on board and train here instead of playing games with his national team during the summer...i thought there was a chance for him to shine during this season coming up if he had gotten consistent minutes... but now with the roster make up he is now fully rejected by this team.

i liked the simmons signing but there was no need for the other signings if they were planning to keep him...its impossible for hezonja to progress on this team with no minutes to spare...

[T-Cat]

Vogel sees Hezonja as a 4!

[Optimus_Steel]

Mario regressed badly last year and was one of the worst players in the league. He was awful from the first preseason game and that continued throughout. You dont count on a guy that was so bad that's why I'm glad that they signed depth. If he wants to make himself useful then he will have to work extremely hard, otherwise he is done in Orlando.

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Agree. He got minutes and he looked BAD. We dont' see him in practice either, if he was lighting it up in practice they'd likely have already given him more leeway in game. The thing that annoyed me the most last season was that even though his shot had gone streaky he just looked lazy on defence. For a young guy who's offence is struggling to adapt with his length and speed he should be hustling and staying in front of guys but too often he barely even put his arms up and let people go by him.

...maybe you can argue in the beginning of the season his defense looked suspect...

to me in the beginning it looked like he was playing uptight and too hard on defense which makes you a stiff so the players he guarded passed him without so much trouble...i think even vogel mentioned something like that as well...

but later on during the season he def picked up his slack on defense until the season closed out...kind of weird how you couldnt tell the difference...unless you missed out on the later games...

Mario did play better defense later on but he was still not effective at it. He was drafted to be a scorer and shooter and he is not a good enough defender to keep around if he can't score.


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[Jstock12]

I honestly still think Hezonja can become an efficient 15-17 ppg scorer.

[prizm]

Agree. He got minutes and he looked BAD. We dont' see him in practice either, if he was lighting it up in practice they'd likely have already given him more leeway in game. The thing that annoyed me the most last season was that even though his shot had gone streaky he just looked lazy on defence. For a young guy who's offence is struggling to adapt with his length and speed he should be hustling and staying in front of guys but too often he barely even put his arms up and let people go by him.

...maybe you can argue in the beginning of the season his defense looked suspect...

to me in the beginning it looked like he was playing uptight and too hard on defense which makes you a stiff so the players he guarded passed him without so much trouble...i think even vogel mentioned something like that as well...

but later on during the season he def picked up his slack on defense until the season closed out...kind of weird how you couldnt tell the difference...unless you missed out on the later games...

Mario did play better defense later on but he was still not effective at it. He was drafted to be a scorer and shooter and he is not a good enough defender to keep around if he can't score.


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not effective?....
...wow, you must have some pure hate for this guy...which is fine...but at least give credit when its due...its like i can be just like you and nitpick gordon and paytons defense and say it wasnt effective...come on now...as the season was ending they all played pretty good defensively...but whatever...we both watched 2 completely different games.

the scoring part i agree but dont expect any player to play 10-15 min a game and expect to score 15 at all times...

for this team and hezonja's sake...i hope they dont keep him around...why keep any player thats 6'8 with the tools to succeed if you're just going let that player rot away on the bench...hopefully orlando gets rid of hezonja and he goes to a team that will give him the opportunity...

[Optimus_Steel]

...maybe you can argue in the beginning of the season his defense looked suspect...

to me in the beginning it looked like he was playing uptight and too hard on defense which makes you a stiff so the players he guarded passed him without so much trouble...i think even vogel mentioned something like that as well...

but later on during the season he def picked up his slack on defense until the season closed out...kind of weird how you couldnt tell the difference...unless you missed out on the later games...

Mario did play better defense later on but he was still not effective at it. He was drafted to be a scorer and shooter and he is not a good enough defender to keep around if he can't score.


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not effective?....
...wow, you must have some pure hate for this guy...which is fine...but at least give credit when its due...its like i can be just like you and nitpick gordon and paytons defense and say it wasnt effective...come on now...as the season was ending they all played pretty good defensively...but whatever...we both watched 2 completely different games.

the scoring part i agree but dont expect any player to play 10-15 min a game and expect to score 15 at all times...

for this team and hezonja's sake...i hope they dont keep him around...why keep any player thats 6'8 with the tools to succeed if you're just going let that player rot away on the bench...hopefully orlando gets rid of hezonja and he goes to a team that will give him the opportunity...

He was among the worst players in the league last year. Ranked in the worst 5 or 10 on numerous offensive and advanced statistical categories, efficiency, plus/minus categories, etc. Its not hyperbole, he was one of the worst players in the league last year. This is why management has added depth.

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[bargnanimvp]

Mario did play better defense later on but he was still not effective at it. He was drafted to be a scorer and shooter and he is not a good enough defender to keep around if he can't score.


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not effective?....
...wow, you must have some pure hate for this guy...which is fine...but at least give credit when its due...its like i can be just like you and nitpick gordon and paytons defense and say it wasnt effective...come on now...as the season was ending they all played pretty good defensively...but whatever...we both watched 2 completely different games.

the scoring part i agree but dont expect any player to play 10-15 min a game and expect to score 15 at all times...

for this team and hezonja's sake...i hope they dont keep him around...why keep any player thats 6'8 with the tools to succeed if you're just going let that player rot away on the bench...hopefully orlando gets rid of hezonja and he goes to a team that will give him the opportunity...

He was among the worst players in the league last year. Ranked in the worst 5 or 10 on numerous offensive and advanced statistical categories, efficiency, plus/minus categories, etc. Its not hyperbole, he was one of the worst players in the league last year. This is why management has added depth.

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Not sure why people keep arguing with this and thinking he deserved more minutes

[prizm]

dont worry guys...he'll be out of this team sooner or later...they finished him so you'll get your wish.

not like most of the people in here that support a player then just **** on them when things dont go smoothly...so once another nba team picks him up and when he succeeds i will for sure point this out. oh...and ill def be pointing out the consistent minutes he finally got to develop and progress...which for some reason so many people in here seem to not understand...

but at the same time orlando magic 4 life...

[Ducklett]

Can't wait to see this thread for Isaac in 2 years when he doesn't become an instant all-star.

[Xatticus]

Mario going to prove yall wrong!!!*



*on another team

No. Mario has proven to be a bust. Gotta come to terms with that now.

I really disagree with this statement. He was far better during his rookie season in a larger role (when many around here were clamoring to see him given even more minutes).

What we learned last year is that Vogel has no idea what to do with him. His rookie season still serves as his baseline. Vogel has grossly mismanaged his development. Second year players should be showing signs of improvement, but I worry that Vogel's methods might wreck Hezonja's career.

We collectively place the onus for a player's failings on the player himself, but for any around here that were aspiring athletes with genuine talent, you should know very well that the circumstances of opportunity and instruction are more significant factors in outcome than is the talent.

Soccer is the most popular youth sport in this country, but we produce relatively few good players because the quality of instruction is poor.

I have serious questions about Vogel's ability to develop players at present (and certainly when the argument is specifically about Hezonja). Based largely on his post-games pressers last year, I believe Vogel's understanding of offense is rudimentary for the NBA level.

At this point, I would trade Hezonja for his own sake, even though I still believe in his potential.

[cedric76]

Can't wait to see this thread for Isaac in 2 years when he doesn't become an instant all-star.

Yeap

2years ago Mario was the white mamba and untouchable.

[tillyoubleed]

Why not just give him some G-league burn? 30+ mpg would help him more than 8-15 and dnp.

[ChosenSavior]

Mario going to prove yall wrong!!!*



*on another team

No. Mario has proven to be a bust. Gotta come to terms with that now.

I really disagree with this statement. He was far better during his rookie season in a larger role (when many around here were clamoring to see him given even more minutes).

What we learned last year is that Vogel has no idea what to do with him. His rookie season still serves as his baseline. Vogel has grossly mismanaged his development. Second year players should be showing signs of improvement, but I worry that Vogel's methods might wreck Hezonja's career.

We collectively place the onus for a player's failings on the player himself, but for any around here that were aspiring athletes with genuine talent, you should know very well that the circumstances of opportunity and instruction are more significant factors in outcome than is the talent.

Soccer is the most popular youth sport in this country, but we produce relatively few good players because the quality of instruction is poor.

I have serious questions about Vogel's ability to develop players at present (and certainly when the argument is specifically about Hezonja). Based largely on his post-games pressers last year, I believe Vogel's understanding of offense is rudimentary for the NBA level.

At this point, I would trade Hezonja for his own sake, even though I still believe in his potential.

Great post. I agree with this and withhold judgement just from the fact of the promise he was showing under Skiles his rookie year. I hope that spending his summer in Orlando and working with Vogel's staff will give him an inside track to crack the rotation and make a legitimate difference this season.

[tiderulz]

Mario going to prove yall wrong!!!*



*on another team

No. Mario has proven to be a bust. Gotta come to terms with that now.

I really disagree with this statement. He was far better during his rookie season in a larger role (when many around here were clamoring to see him given even more minutes).

What we learned last year is that Vogel has no idea what to do with him. His rookie season still serves as his baseline. Vogel has grossly mismanaged his development. Second year players should be showing signs of improvement, but I worry that Vogel's methods might wreck Hezonja's career.

We collectively place the onus for a player's failings on the player himself, but for any around here that were aspiring athletes with genuine talent, you should know very well that the circumstances of opportunity and instruction are more significant factors in outcome than is the talent.

Soccer is the most popular youth sport in this country, but we produce relatively few good players because the quality of instruction is poor.

I have serious questions about Vogel's ability to develop players at present (and certainly when the argument is specifically about Hezonja). Based largely on his post-games pressers last year, I believe Vogel's understanding of offense is rudimentary for the NBA level.

At this point, I would trade Hezonja for his own sake, even though I still believe in his potential.

i will say, i was underwhelmed with the development of Elf, Gordon and Hezonja after what Vogel did in Indiana with Solomon, PG, Turner. Maybe he didnt bring over his development asst coach or something, but those guys didnt make any real leap that i expected of them under Vogel and Vogel seemed lost as to how to bring them along.

[DiplomaticMagic]

The thought of Frank Vogel developing Jonathon Issac makes me sick.

[Skybox]

Sadly agree, no one was more excited about the Vogel "get" than me but his commitment to playing Green, Watson, and Augustin despite their awful play and limited upside last season scares me. It's almost like if the FO wants to see development, they have to handcuff Vogel and "bench" those that are supposed to be supporting cast, not starters...

This is a Mario thread...I'm still unwilling to give up on him. WAY too much turmoil in the coaching,FO, and goals of this franchise during his brief stay. He hasn't shot well at all, but he's a shooter without dispute. All mental because his tools are perfect for today's NBA...His upside is way beyond Simmons, Afflalo, Speights, Mack...possibly even Evan and T.Ross because of his size, but so far...he sucks. WHY?

[drsd]

This is a Mario thread...I'm still unwilling to give up on him. WAY too much turmoil in the coaching,FO, and goals of this franchise during his brief stay. He hasn't shot well at all, but he's a shooter without dispute. All mental because his tools are perfect for today's NBA...His upside is way beyond Simmons, Afflalo, Speights, Mack...possibly even Evan and T.Ross because of his size, but so far...he sucks. WHY?

If Hezonja want to further his NBA career he better be using the summer to work on key aspects of his game, rather than sulking. At this point he needs one definable NBA skill. The one he is more sooted for is a catch-and-shoot 3-ball specialist. If he adds that to his game, this coming season, Coach Vogel will have to find minutes for Hezonja. Anything less, well ......


..

[OrlChamps2030]

Sadly agree, no one was more excited about the Vogel "get" than me but his commitment to playing Green, Watson, and Augustin despite their awful play and limited upside last season scares me. It's almost like if the FO wants to see development, they have to handcuff Vogel and "bench" those that are supposed to be supporting cast, not starters...

This is a Mario thread...I'm still unwilling to give up on him. WAY too much turmoil in the coaching,FO, and goals of this franchise during his brief stay. He hasn't shot well at all, but he's a shooter without dispute. All mental because his tools are perfect for today's NBA...His upside is way beyond Simmons, Afflalo, Speights, Mack...possibly even Evan and T.Ross because of his size, but so far...he sucks. WHY?

You can't only blame the coaching staff. Four different coaches in the last four years haven't seen Hezonja as anything more than a fringe role player, at best.

I like the idea of trying to salvage Hezonja as a Steve Novak stretch 4. Take the ball out of his hands and let him be a decoy and spot up out there.

Hezonja was so miserable last year there is nowhere to go but up. Part of me wonders if he had off the court issues. Trouble adjusting to America, girl trouble, coaching issues, who knows. Because he looked like a lost little boy without an alpha bone in his body out there.

We need Speights to put the sauce on Hezonja in training camp, maybe crack him in the jaw or send a bow to his nose. Let him know you have to be a man to find a place in this league. Or else back to Europe for Mario

[JAY DASH]

The thought of Frank Vogel developing Jonathon Issac makes me sick.

The thought of Forcier developing him should give you the opposite feeling.