Location, Location... RELOCATION!?

[Magic#1]

I always wondered had we drafted Emeka Okafor like most would have done, would we have stayed in Orlando?

That's a really good question.

[T-Rob]

I see everyone is quick to abandon the team if they leave Orlando and, at first, that is my reaction as well.

But I left Florida 8 years ago and still passionately support the Magic. People move around all the time and still support their teams. Is it really so different if the team moves? It will be the same players... I know, I know... it won't really be the same. But it is an interesting question.

I'm from Oregon and grew up a Sonics fan. Once they left I didn't just become an OKC fan, actually it was quite the opposite. I ended up switching to my favorite team in the East which was the Magic. OkC is one of my most hated franchises in all of sports now. Not only did that city take my favorite team but the way it went down and the ownership group at the time, just left a bad taste.

[npiper17]

Much ado about nothing in respect of the Magic. When the Magic were winning we managed to get a new arena built and shortly a new entertainment center will follow it. When you look at the progress the city has made in its downtown area with the football (soccer) club as well, there's no way the Magic will leave. The DeVos point is moot because ultimately it's his son, Dan, that runs the organisation anyway. Once the Magic get back to winning ways, all will be well.

[OrlandO]

How much did they lose? Would they be on the list if they paid Green and Biz what they were worth instead of what they fooled Hennigan into giving them?

I think a couple years ago they lost like 2 million... that seems acceptable for a really bad rebuilding team. Is it a similar situation or are they in deeper crap now? Then you got teams who have won more than us that lose tens of millions. We need numbers to put it into perspective.

[MagicFan101]

I see everyone is quick to abandon the team if they leave Orlando and, at first, that is my reaction as well.

But I left Florida 8 years ago and still passionately support the Magic. People move around all the time and still support their teams. Is it really so different if the team moves? It will be the same players... I know, I know... it won't really be the same. But it is an interesting question.

There are so many unknown variables. Half of the teams in the league lost money so using the "they lost money, so it automatically means they're moving" logic would apply to all of them.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

There is a lot more to it than just "they lost money." Other than Brooklyn, I don't think any team is facing the change of ownership Orlando is in the near future. Sure, our change will still be within the family but it does come with a change of mind set. With teams now selling for billions of dollars and the Magic struggling so much recently it is at least worth discussing the likelyhood that someone tries to overpay for the right to move them to Seattle or Vegas for example.

Money is like power. Those who have it only want more. If you are fighting to come up with hidden revenue to argue against their loss report, I think that is enough in itself to highlight the issue of "money is being left on the table" for the Magic organization.

[RickB-Orlando]

According to Zach Lowe and Brian Windhorst, the following 9 teams lost money last season:

Atlanta Hawks
Brooklyn Nets
Cleveland Cavaliers
Detroit Pistons
Memphis Grizzlies
Milwaukee Bucks
Orlando Magic
San Antonio Spurs
Washington Wizards

This is even after revenue sharing. I'm not sure how we could say "the Magic do well financially."

Read more at http://www.slamonline.com/nba/14-nba-teams-lost-money-2016-17/#H18lCIrJBICJ7iB2.99

Well, it depends entirely on how you define a loss.

Did they actually inject cash into the team in order to continue operations? Doubtful.

Did they *show* a loss while being cash-flow positive? Probably.

[RickB-Orlando]

I see everyone is quick to abandon the team if they leave Orlando and, at first, that is my reaction as well.

But I left Florida 8 years ago and still passionately support the Magic. People move around all the time and still support their teams. Is it really so different if the team moves? It will be the same players... I know, I know... it won't really be the same. But it is an interesting question.

There are so many unknown variables. Half of the teams in the league lost money so using the "they lost money, so it automatically means they're moving" logic would apply to all of them.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

There is a lot more to it than just "they lost money." Other than Brooklyn, I don't think any team is facing the change of ownership Orlando is in the near future. Sure, our change will still be within the family but it does come with a change of mind set. With teams now selling for billions of dollars and the Magic struggling so much recently it is at least worth discussing the likelyhood that someone tries to overpay for the right to move them to Seattle or Vegas for example.

Money is like power. Those who have it only want more. If you are fighting to come up with hidden revenue to argue against their loss report, I think that is enough in itself to highlight the issue of "money is being left on the table" for the Magic organization.

Dan DeVos already runs the team from an ownership perspective. With or without Rich, Dan is very unlikely to decide to sell the team.

[MagicFan101]

According to Zach Lowe and Brian Windhorst, the following 9 teams lost money last season:

Atlanta Hawks
Brooklyn Nets
Cleveland Cavaliers
Detroit Pistons
Memphis Grizzlies
Milwaukee Bucks
Orlando Magic
San Antonio Spurs
Washington Wizards

This is even after revenue sharing. I'm not sure how we could say "the Magic do well financially."

Read more at http://www.slamonline.com/nba/14-nba-teams-lost-money-2016-17/#H18lCIrJBICJ7iB2.99

Well, it depends entirely on how you define a loss.

Did they actually inject cash into the team in order to continue operations? Doubtful.

Did they *show* a loss while being cash-flow positive? Probably.

Again, we're clearly getting caught up on details to favor a desired result.

Regardless of which side of the +/- curve the business landed on, the FACT remains that the Orlando Magic are not a money earning machine the way other franchises are. Obviously you can't compete with NY or LA in Orlando but you should be able to run your business well enough to not have to consistently earn good money in this business.

Now, there are many owners who are passionate about the sport, the fans and the town they represent and this is more meaningful to them then just money. We happen to have such an owner ... for now. And THAT is what I am really trying to get at.

I absolutely believe RDV's family loves Orlando and the Magic. But do they love both enough to say no during a dry spell when a big check comes their way?

That is the question.

[InFlames]

Magic ain't going anywhere because we got Amway. If we had drafted Emeka Okafor and never built the Amway The Magic would already be gone.

[MagicMadness]

Regardless of which side of the +/- curve the business landed on, the FACT remains that the Orlando Magic are not a money earning machine the way other franchises are. Obviously you can't compete with NY or LA in Orlando but you should be able to run your business well enough to not have to consistently earn good money in this business.

The article states that the Magic lost money last season. How much did they lose? What was their profit/loss the season before that? How about the year before the new arena opened? The 2008-09 Finals season? The mid-90s?

For all we know, the Magic have been consistently profitable up until the past 2-3 years. Or maybe they haven't been profitable since the T-Mac era?? We have no idea, unless someone can provide reliable data. This 'fact' is speculation based on the organization's operating numbers during the 2015-16 season - a season, mind you, that many here (including myself) consider to be the least exciting season in Orlando Magic history. I highly doubt the Magic and the city of Orlando would've negotiated on that new arena deal if the team was not consistently making money up to that point.

As for the question about relocation based on new ownership - well, that's one we'll just have to wait and see on. For all we know, DeVos lives another decade. Or, he simply hands the team over to a family member who immediately says they're staying in Orlando. Who knows. I wouldn't put much stock in the team losing money last season, unless reports come out that the Magic are concerned.

This is one to keep an eye on, though. Hopefully, the Magic get back in the black.

[SOUL]

Yeah, I can't imagine Orlando not having a team in any of the major sports (well, I guess MLS is big now but besides MLS).

[AdamTheGreek]

I always wondered had we drafted Emeka Okafor like most would have done, would we have stayed in Orlando?

Didn't really play a factor since the deal was put in place summer of 2006, and finalized winter of '06. So that would've been just as Dwight was starting his 3rd year. Which was before the Magic were again good (and pre-SVG). The 'hope' of Dwight and Jameer didn't hurt, but it really didn't play a factor on a local government voting level.

When the recession came, 3-4 years later, and a lot of that bond financing went bust, and the team, city, and county had to re-establish the financing, did it help having a great team at that time? Yeah.

The Magic are safe for these next round of expansion/relocation talks. We are no where near close to '04, '05, mid-'06 when we thought Kansas City, St. Louis, Oklahoma City, or Louisville could take the team.

Even when Rich passes, Dan is already in control. Now...could he and the family sell the franchise in the near future? Maybe. Depends on how much the kids, grandkids, and great-grandkids still are involved and interested in the team.

The Rockets are being sold for over $2 billion. If you're going to sell, you know what you can get for the team (minimum $1.5 billion).

But the DeVos family seem to be treating the Magic as a legacy franchise. Just look across the street at the hundreds of millions of dollars they're spending just for the office and entertainment complex they're putting together. You don't build all of that if you plan on selling any time soon.


**** is bad now with the team, I get that, but historically, we are still one of the best Eastern Conference franchises (probably top 5) when you look at the life of our franchise.

I'm not worried. Not when other candidates like New Orleans are prime to be moved.

[NEM]

Is this thread a joke? lol Orlando is one of the fastest growing markets in the COUNTRY and we still have 17 years left on the lease for the arena which would cost about as much as relocation itself would. There is 0 chance that the magic relocate. Even if RDV sells the team, the new ownership would be dumb to move from here. I could easily see the Grizzlies moving though.

[Ducklett]

Is this thread a joke? lol Orlando is one of the fastest growing markets in the COUNTRY and we still have 17 years left on the lease for the arena which would cost about as much as relocation itself would. There is 0 chance that the magic relocate. Even if RDV sells the team, the new ownership would be dumb to move from here. I could easily see the Grizzlies moving though.

I heard somewhere if you count Daytona Greater as Orlando, it is the fastest. It was on the radio a couple weeks back.

[Audi]

Is this thread a joke? lol Orlando is one of the fastest growing markets in the COUNTRY and we still have 17 years left on the lease for the arena which would cost about as much as relocation itself would. There is 0 chance that the magic relocate. Even if RDV sells the team, the new ownership would be dumb to move from here.

Bingobangobongo. Couldn't have said it better myself. If the DeVos family ever did sell, investors would likely be drooling over the prospect of keeping it exactly where it is when you project a growing future in both the city and the sport in general.

[purpleswordfish]

Magic aren't going anywhere. If they didn't get the new arena and weren't in the middle of redeveloping the surrounding area downtown, maybe. I can't think of a precedent for a team leaving a city with a building as new and nice as the Amway.

As for profitability, the answer is simple - put a competitive product on the floor. People are frontrunners, in general. Get those casual fans back and it makes it a lot easier to turn a profit.

[AddiFB]

Orlando as a market is money for investors and owners. Like it or not, tourists bring a lot of money to Orlando and even though they aren't as active or loud during games, they put their asses in the seats. Money. I'm one of these tourists. I've spent A LOT of money there, both in Amway Center and just in Orlando in general. Hope my money had some impact The city, state in general and theme parks in Orlando bring a lot of greens and the NBA knows it.

Please don't relocate. Ever. EVERRRR

[darthcheech2000]

Prime relocation target? I could not disagree more.

You can relocate a bad team, but that is a short-term fix. That excitement will wear-off eventually, no matter the town. A good product is what brings people in.

Right now, one the problems is parity.

I live in New England and travel into Boston regularly, there was literally zero buzz in the city about the Celtics getting the #1 seed. They knew, like the rest of the world.

This coming season feels the same. That is BORING and people do not spend their money on that.

[drsd]

I think a couple years ago they lost like 2 million... that seems acceptable for a really bad rebuilding team.

Given that the sellable value of the Magic is going up by a lot more than 2M a year, this is an "investment."

Right now I would guess that the sales-value increase of most NBA teams is going up between 50-150M a year. There simply are an overabundance of Billionaires wanting to own a sports team and not enough NBA teams: supply and demand.


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Orlando as a market is money for investors and owners. Like it or not, tourists bring a lot of money to Orlando and even though they aren't as active or loud during games, they put their asses in the seats. Money. I'm one of these tourists. I've spent A LOT of money there, both in Amway Center and just in Orlando in general. Hope my money had some impact The city, state in general and theme parks in Orlando bring a lot of greens and the NBA knows it.

Tourist bring in "new money" meaning that money is not recycled (if one Orlandoan gives money to another Orlandoan, there is no net movement of money in or out of Orlando). Outside money flowing in creates overall growth - and wealth - in Central Florida. Your ideas about money and arena seats helps the Amway Center as its own corporate entity, but is minuscule in profit margins for the Magic as a whole. The national TV deal dwarfs anything the Amway Center could ever provide the team. That said, ownership does profit. The luxury seats are a major personal gain for the DeVos family. To your, "... and just in Orlando in general ...", this is the reason the city subsidises the team. From Orlando's perspective, the Magic is an advert for the city to bring in tourists.

Please don't relocate. Ever. EVERRRR

That post is worthy of more reflection!



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[Xatticus]

According to Zach Lowe and Brian Windhorst, the following 9 teams lost money last season:

Atlanta Hawks
Brooklyn Nets
Cleveland Cavaliers
Detroit Pistons
Memphis Grizzlies
Milwaukee Bucks
Orlando Magic
San Antonio Spurs
Washington Wizards

This is even after revenue sharing. I'm not sure how we could say "the Magic do well financially."

Read more at http://www.slamonline.com/nba/14-nba-teams-lost-money-2016-17/#H18lCIrJBICJ7iB2.99

Well, it depends entirely on how you define a loss.

Did they actually inject cash into the team in order to continue operations? Doubtful.

Did they *show* a loss while being cash-flow positive? Probably.

Again, we're clearly getting caught up on details to favor a desired result.

Regardless of which side of the +/- curve the business landed on, the FACT remains that the Orlando Magic are not a money earning machine the way other franchises are. Obviously you can't compete with NY or LA in Orlando but you should be able to run your business well enough to not have to consistently earn good money in this business.

Now, there are many owners who are passionate about the sport, the fans and the town they represent and this is more meaningful to them then just money. We happen to have such an owner ... for now. And THAT is what I am really trying to get at.

I absolutely believe RDV's family loves Orlando and the Magic. But do they love both enough to say no during a dry spell when a big check comes their way?

That is the question.

I'm not an accountant, but I tend to be highly skeptical of reports such as the one just released about 14 teams losing money. There are advantages to reporting losses.

I support an English football club that pleads poverty (Ipswich Town), even though the debt accrued by the club is actually owed to the club's owner.