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They still seem like a mess of mismatching pieces that individually are better than the sum of their parts.

Simmons is an effective player and should be starting but at what position? He isn't a good enough shooter to start with the horrific shooting Elfrid but should he be taking time away from Isaac at SF?

Elfrid has some really impressive games but most of the time he spends all game dribbling around the court ineffectively because nobody has to honor his shot and so he doesn't attract any attention and thus has trouble making his teammates better.

Fournier is probably their most polished offensive wing but he's just not good enough to be a 1st or 2nd option. At best he's a 3rd option on a playoff team.

Vucevic is a nice scoring center but is a liability on defense and that's a real problem in today's NBA. Guys like Vuc, Kanter and even Olynyk, who is a decent man2man defender, probably shouldn't be starters since they neither protect the bucket nor stay with perimeter players. Vuc as instant offense off the bench would be great but since they have such marginal scorers on the perimeter he may have to start.

I really like Biyombo for his defensive abilities and rebounding but with his and his teammates offensive limitations, he can't start.

Gordon is a nice talent that has never been used properly and it's stunted his development. He should be playing with a potent playmaker that would utilize his physical talents and allow him opportunity scoring but that sort of player is not on the team.

How about something radical like Fournier/Simmons/Isaac/Gordon/Vucevic?

Probably best suited to ask this on the Orlando board.

--Msgs

I'm not sold on Jonathon Simmons yet.

Payton/Fournier/Gordon/Biyombo/Vucevic. Let Jonathan Isaac develop a bit before taking the starting spot from Biyombo later this season.

magnumt wrote:Probably best suited to ask this on the Orlando board.

--Msgs

What are people suppose to post on the general board then?

magnumt wrote:Probably best suited to ask this on the Orlando board.

--Msgs

I thought many non-Orlando fans would be interested in weighing in on this question which is why I wanted it to have the widest circulation. Only Orlando fans go to the Orlando board. I know I would never have seen this thread if it was sitting on their board.

Tim Kempton wrote:I'm not sold on Jonathon Simmons yet.

Payton/Fournier/Gordon/Biyombo/Vucevic. Let Jonathan Isaac develop a bit before taking the starting spot from Biyombo later this season.

If Biyombo is quick enough to stay with everyone he gets switched onto I like this idea although it makes him the worst offensive PF in the league. Combined with the fact that Gordon is probably the worst offensive SF in the league and Payton is the worst offensive PG in the league I don't see how this can work.

I think longterm, the Magic go with 4 wings and no true C and play Isaac at '5", Gordon at 4, Fournier at SG. The FO's current goal is find a star SF and stud PG.

For now, I am starting to think that Isaac should start at SF. It may be too soon for him, but he's so effective on D already and he has a 3 point shot. That would be an Elf/Evan/Isaac/AG/Vuc lineup. If Isaac shows that he is a longterm SF, than that is a game changer, but he is expected to grow to 7 feet.

Reserves should be Iwundu/Ross/Simmons/Mario/Birch.

I would trade DJ Augustine and Biz.

I love Simmons a lot and coud see him starting over Ross if Isaac doesn't.

thinkingwarriors wrote:They still seem like a mess of mismatching pieces that individually are better than the sum of their parts.

Simmons is an effective player and should be starting but at what position? He isn't a good enough shooter to start with the horrific shooting Elfrid but should he be taking time away from Isaac at SF?

Elfrid has some really impressive games but most of the time he spends all game dribbling around the court ineffectively because nobody has to honor his shot and so he doesn't attract any attention and thus has trouble making his teammates better.

Fournier is probably their most polished offensive wing but he's just not good enough to be a 1st or 2nd option. At best he's a 3rd option on a playoff team.

Vucevic is a nice scoring center but is a liability on defense and that's a real problem in today's NBA. Guys like Vuc, Kanter and even Olynyk, who is a decent man2man defender, probably shouldn't be starters since they neither protect the bucket nor stay with perimeter players. Vuc as instant offense off the bench would be great but since they have such marginal scorers on the perimeter he may have to start.

I really like Biyombo for his defensive abilities and rebounding but with his and his teammates offensive limitations, he can't start.

Gordon is a nice talent that has never been used properly and it's stunted his development. He should be playing with a potent playmaker that would utilize his physical talents and allow him opportunity scoring but that sort of player is not on the team.

How about something radical like Fournier/Simmons/Isaac/Gordon/Vucevic?

Fournier at pg?

This will be an interesting Magic team to watch this season. I expect it to grow and evolve over the season, and roles to change whilst the team finds a way to compete every night.

Ultimately, I think Gordon and Fournier are the safest in their positions. Gordon's offense is growing, and he's becoming much more confident creating plays from the PF spot. Fournier is just a solid shooter.

I'm a huge Payton fan, and I think our offense has been running sweetly with him since we let him take over properly and keep the ball in his hands. I think the OP was way off in 2 regards. 1) Payton's dribbling is what creates a lot of the defensive breakdowns amongst the opposition as they collapse to contain him in the paint. 2) Payton and Gordon have a pretty fantastic connection and they play off each other really well.

The problem with the current starting 5 of Vuc/Gordon/Ross/Fournier/Payton is that the team can't handle half court sets. They haven't figured that part out. And amongst those players, some can be quite suspect on defense. So I fully expect Simmons, Isaac and possibly Afflalo to be challenging for starting spots throughout the season.

Simmons looks to have already become somewhat of the leader that this team has needed for a long time. He won't stay on the bench long. But bringing him into the starting 5 changes the balance of how that lineup would run an offense, since Simmons is much more of an on ball scorer. So whilst Ross seems like the most likely candidate to lose his spot, I think Payton and Vuc will feel the pinch of that too.

I think tonight's preseason game was a nice indicator for the season. Vogel seems to love how inspired the defensive effort was from our bench guys, and I reckon he's gonna reward players for that.

STARTERS
Isaac?
Gordon
Simmons
Fournier
Payton

BENCH
Birch/Speights
?
Ross
Aflalo
Mack

And I think Vucevic, Hezonja, Biyombo and Augustin could find themselves on the shopping block at some point this season.

Tim Kempton wrote:I'm not sold on Jonathon Simmons yet.

this is a surprising take. he is a 2 way player with a big motor, what's missing?

irrespective i could see him comfortably starting or first man off the bench depending on opposing lineups.

Sent from my SM-G930F using RealGM mobile app

Right now I would project the opening-night rotation as:


Payton/Mack/Augustin
Ross/Afflalo/Hezonja
Fournier/Simmons/Iwundu
Gordon/Isaac/Speights
Vučević/Biyombo/Birch

(Blue is the normal rotation, Pink is game-dependent playing time, and red is DNPCD/not-suited for).

If Ross struggles, Fournier would be shifted to starting SG and Simmons to starting SF. With Ross still getting major minutes.


..

tribulations wrote:irrespective i could see him comfortably starting or first man off the bench depending on opposing lineups.

I agree that Simmons is the first off of the bench, as he can equally come in for either Ross or Fournier.


..

I'm still sticking with Payton-Ross-Fournier-Gordon-Vucevic for the time being.

Second half of the Miami game aside, it appears this group has really found a comfortable groove playing a fast tempo.

Simmons has outperformed Ross, but I prefer Simmons' hustle and isolation ability on the 2nd unit right now, especially if Vogel is going to drive us all nuts by continuing to play five-man bench units for extended stretches.

Way too early to talk about lineups yet, IMO. It is hard to make good starting squad when pieces still largely don't fit together.

Vučević seems to fit into Vogel defensive sets, but can't switch. Bigger problem lies on offense. Simmons can't be paired with Payton and Gordon, they all demand driving lanes and space, while providing none.

Bensational wrote:This will be an interesting Magic team to watch this season. I expect it to grow and evolve over the season, and roles to change whilst the team finds a way to compete every night.

Ultimately, I think Gordon and Fournier are the safest in their positions. Gordon's offense is growing, and he's becoming much more confident creating plays from the PF spot. Fournier is just a solid shooter.

I'm a huge Payton fan, and I think our offense has been running sweetly with him since we let him take over properly and keep the ball in his hands. I think the OP was way off in 2 regards. 1) Payton's dribbling is what creates a lot of the defensive breakdowns amongst the opposition as they collapse to contain him in the paint. 2) Payton and Gordon have a pretty fantastic connection and they play off each other really well.

The problem with the current starting 5 of Vuc/Gordon/Ross/Fournier/Payton is that the team can't handle half court sets. They haven't figured that part out. And amongst those players, some can be quite suspect on defense. So I fully expect Simmons, Isaac and possibly Afflalo to be challenging for starting spots throughout the season.

Simmons looks to have already become somewhat of the leader that this team has needed for a long time. He won't stay on the bench long. But bringing him into the starting 5 changes the balance of how that lineup would run an offense, since Simmons is much more of an on ball scorer. So whilst Ross seems like the most likely candidate to lose his spot, I think Payton and Vuc will feel the pinch of that too.

I think tonight's preseason game was a nice indicator for the season. Vogel seems to love how inspired the defensive effort was from our bench guys, and I reckon he's gonna reward players for that.

STARTERS
Isaac?
Gordon
Simmons
Fournier
Payton

BENCH
Birch/Speights
?
Ross
Aflalo
Mack

And I think Vucevic, Hezonja, Biyombo and Augustin could find themselves on the shopping block at some point this season.

If Afflalo truly challenges for a starting spot, then the season will be over

Payton
Simmons
Isaac
Gordon
Birch

Vogel's wet dream. All defense.

Forgot we had Afflalo

We've got some depth at SG/SF

They will start out with Payton, Fournier, Ross, AG, and Vuc. As the season goes and vogel sees that the starting unit now still plays bad defense, Jonathan Simmons will come into the SL for one of Fournier or Ross. I prefer Fournier to the bench. That will give us a more balanced offense/defense SL with a bench of Fournier, Isaac, Mo, Afflalo and Mack. Biz, DJ, and Mario are all gone after this year imo.

thinkingwarriors wrote:

Tim Kempton wrote:I'm not sold on Jonathon Simmons yet.

Payton/Fournier/Gordon/Biyombo/Vucevic. Let Jonathan Isaac develop a bit before taking the starting spot from Biyombo later this season.

If Biyombo is quick enough to stay with everyone he gets switched onto I like this idea although it makes him the worst offensive PF in the league. Combined with the fact that Gordon is probably the worst offensive SF in the league and Payton is the worst offensive PG in the league I don't see how this can work.

Valid points about the offense, but the Magic don't really have the ability to hang with high scoring teams either way. With Biyombo in the frontcourt, their defense improves and maybe Fournier becomes a 20+ scorer due to lack of other options besides Vucevic.

tribulations wrote:

Tim Kempton wrote:I'm not sold on Jonathon Simmons yet.

this is a surprising take. he is a 2 way player with a big motor, what's missing?

irrespective i could see him comfortably starting or first man off the bench depending on opposing lineups.

Sent from my SM-G930F using RealGM mobile app

It's more about sample size than his potential. He played well against the Rockets and the Warriors in the playoffs, but besides that, he's been largely unimpressive in his first two seasons. Outside of those two series, his shooting was poor. He's a good defender, though. Can't take that away from him. I hope that he does break out, but I'm taking a wait-and-see approach with him for the moment.