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Im still going to temper my expectations with this team, but I dont think that this start to the season (record wise atleast) should have come as such as a surprise to us as it did. I think there are a few things, in particular, that transpired last year that hinted to us that things would be much better for us this year.

Vogel

The first and most important one, in my opinion, is Frank Vogel. Now I was as much a critic last year of Vogel as anybody because let's be honest, he just wasn't a good coach last year. A portion of that can be chalked up to roster construction, but a large majority of that falls on him and his outdated coaching philosophies and rotations. But I think we all saw at the all-star break things didn't just change for our team because of the roster construction, we all saw a switch flip with Frank Vogel and saw him own up to his outdated style of play and state that in order to be successful in this league you have to be able to space the floor and get out on the break. When he implemented the new rotations and style of play the team immediately started to reap the benefits of it. The fact of the matter is Frank Vogel is a great head coach. He's proven that his entire career.

2011-2012 Pacers- First season as head coach. Coached the Pacers to a 42-24 record and a semifinals appearance against the Heat

2012-2013 Pacers- Coached them to 49-32 record and lost in game 7 of the eastern conference finals to the Heat

2013-2014 Pacers- Coached them to a 56-26 record and lost in game 7 of the eastern conference finals to the Heat

2014-2015 Pacers- coached a Paul George-less Pacers to a 38-44 record barely missing the playoffs

2015-2016 Pacers-Coached them to a 45-37 record and a game 7 loss against the Raptors in the Playoffs

He is a great coach that somewhere along the line got left behind by the new NBA and small ball movement. The fact that he has been able to reinvent himself changes absolutely everything for this team though. He has more talent with this team than he did for several of those playoff-bound Pacers team. He is one of the main reasons for the team's success this year and is going to continue to be.

Shooting percentages, AG's breakout, and Bench:

Augustins's career percentages: 40 fg% 37 3pt fg% Last year: 37 fg % 34 3pt fg %

Fournier career percentages: 44 fg% 38 3pt fg% Last year: 43 fg % 35 3pt fg%

Vuc's career percentages: 50 fg% Last year:46 fg%

Ross's career percentages:44 fg% 37 3pt fg% Last year: 43 fg % 34 3pt fg%

I know the popular thing for a lot of fan bases and media to say right now is that this isn't sustainable, and while that partly true due to the fact that we arent going to be shooting this absurdly good, the numbers that a lot of our guys shot last year weren't sustainable either. The majority were well below their career percentages. Now with these guys playing in Vogel's new system that suits all of their strengths, there is very little doubt in my mind that this cant be a top 12 offensive team this year. The talent on that end is there. With AG working with stephs trainer this year to revamp his shot, that only makes us that much better on that end as well. AG continuing to take the jump this year is what is going to determine whether or not this team can see that continued success or not, I believe that he will. When Payton comes back and gets us playing at that absurdly high pace that's when this offense will be at its best too.

Replacing Jeff green, Cj Watson, and Meeks with Simmons, Isaac, and Mack has also paid off big time. Isaac and Simmons bring a much-improved defense to that second unit with Simmons being the major component here as a leader and playmaker for them as well. Simmons is finally that vocal leader and playmaker off the bench that we have needed so badly to stop the second unit from coming in and crumbling and blowing leads. He's so important for this teams success.

What do you guys think? What is the ceiling for this team?

I think with all these things factored in this year we have potentially a 42-45 win team here and will finish somewhere in the 5-8 seed. While I could be wrong, I have much more confidence with this roster and new style of play that this is a team that Vogel can take places. Would love to hear what you guys think our ceiling is. Poll at the top.

I don't think it's unreasonable. You nailed how the Magic have changed so far this season, and why there is reason for hope. I was pretty mum on the Magic's chances this year, but both Vogel implementing a more faster pace on offense with improved shooting across the board (maybe Payton comes along) were two things I didn't really see evidence for based on years' past. However, if it holds, the Magic will certainly be in the mix for one of the last 3 playoff spots.

More importantly, the Magic have also been one of the best defenses in the NBA this year. They've done an excellent job of using their length and versatility to switch and recover and defend without fouling. The Magic are 2nd in opponent FG% and eFG% and 9th in defensive rating. The shooting may be variable throughout the season and I'm not sure simply a 5 game sample is reflective of how they'll average out over the 82 games. But if they can remain a top 10 defense, they'll set themselves up well for a playoff spot. I give Vogel credit for creating a more swarming defense so far this season.

Health will be a huge factor. The Magic aren't the deepest team in the league and can't afford to lose key starters. They've maintained so far without Payton, but they also haven't faced the best point guards in the NBA during this stretch (Rose, Russell, and Murray). At some point, we're going to face a stretch of star point guards that could give us more trouble.

Fluke start, you guys will fall apart lol. Honestly, winning so many games at the beginning of the season just hurts your chances of getting the top 3 in the lottery.

Rainwater wrote:Fluke start, you guys will fall apart lol. Honestly, winning so many games at the beginning of the season just hurts your chances of getting the top 3 in the lottery.

I mean I doubt we're as good as blowing out the Cavs and Spurs, but we were never going to be a bottom 3 team this year. New lottey rule also makes it more difficult then "lol just tank" so.. yeah.

Rainwater wrote:Fluke start, you guys will fall apart lol. Honestly, winning so many games at the beginning of the season just hurts your chances of getting the top 3 in the lottery.

Fair enough, based on the last five years I can see why an outsider would think that. Would be interested to see you elaborate on your statement more. This team doesn't have anything to gain from continuing to lose games and wind up in in the lottery, Its just hurting the development of our current young guys at this point.

Rainwater wrote:Fluke start, you guys will fall apart lol. Honestly, winning so many games at the beginning of the season just hurts your chances of getting the top 3 in the lottery.

You have no evidence for this terrible uninformed opinion.

You go now.

SOUL wrote:

Rainwater wrote:Fluke start, you guys will fall apart lol. Honestly, winning so many games at the beginning of the season just hurts your chances of getting the top 3 in the lottery.

I mean I doubt we're as good as blowing out the Cavs and Spurs, but we were never going to be a bottom 3 team this year. New lottey rule also makes it more difficult then "lol just tank" so.. yeah.

Correct me if I am wrong, if you fall to the bottom 3 don't you have an equal chance of winning the 1st pick? They made it more difficult but it is not impossible. I have followed you guys for years as previously as I lived in Orlando and your team was such in such disarray heading into the season I never thought you guys would be any good. Although your chances of getting in the top 3 weren't the best, I still thought there was still a chance nonetheless. But winning these early games are not helping but like you said your chances were slim to begin with.

SOUL wrote:

Rainwater wrote:Fluke start, you guys will fall apart lol. Honestly, winning so many games at the beginning of the season just hurts your chances of getting the top 3 in the lottery.

I mean I doubt we're as good as blowing out the Cavs and Spurs, but we were never going to be a bottom 3 team this year. New lottey rule also makes it more difficult then "lol just tank" so.. yeah.

It will, but it doesn't start until the 2019 draft.

Dubious Kitty wrote:

Rainwater wrote:Fluke start, you guys will fall apart lol. Honestly, winning so many games at the beginning of the season just hurts your chances of getting the top 3 in the lottery.

You have no evidence for this terrible uninformed opinion.

You go now.

Lol, New GM, No Franchise player as of yet, A Coach in his Second year, Some questionable trades made by your previous F/O, a uncertain future, Two guys in AG and Payton who not All-stars but want big time money, did you really think you would be in this current position? Seriously, lol.

Rainwater wrote:

SOUL wrote:

Rainwater wrote:Fluke start, you guys will fall apart lol. Honestly, winning so many games at the beginning of the season just hurts your chances of getting the top 3 in the lottery.

I mean I doubt we're as good as blowing out the Cavs and Spurs, but we were never going to be a bottom 3 team this year. New lottey rule also makes it more difficult then "lol just tank" so.. yeah.

Correct me if I am wrong, if you fall to the bottom 3 don't you have an equal chance of winning the 1st pick? They made it more difficult but it is not impossible. I have followed you guys years as previously lived in Orlando and your team was such in such disarray heading into the season I never thought you guys would be any good. Although your chances of getting in the top 3 weren't the best, I still thought there was still a chance nonetheless. But winning these early games are not helping but like you said your chances were slim to begin with.

We won 29 games last season with a less-experienced/less-talented roster, good for the 6th pick. We started off 0-3 after an underwhelming preseason, and only played well late when we traded Ibaka and moved Gordon to his natural position.

You expected us to be worse than that? We've got to be Suns-level to fight for the #1 pick.

While no one expected us to be 4-1 with blowout wins over two contenders and a +10.8 point differential, it wasn't unreasonable to expect a growing squad of Gordon/Vucevic/Fournier/Payton (hasn't played much yet) with Simmons and Issac off the bench to be capable of at least 35 wins (Vegas had us at 34.5).

MagicMadness wrote:

Rainwater wrote:

SOUL wrote:
I mean I doubt we're as good as blowing out the Cavs and Spurs, but we were never going to be a bottom 3 team this year. New lottey rule also makes it more difficult then "lol just tank" so.. yeah.

Correct me if I am wrong, if you fall to the bottom 3 don't you have an equal chance of winning the 1st pick? They made it more difficult but it is not impossible. I have followed you guys years as previously lived in Orlando and your team was such in such disarray heading into the season I never thought you guys would be any good. Although your chances of getting in the top 3 weren't the best, I still thought there was still a chance nonetheless. But winning these early games are not helping but like you said your chances were slim to begin with.

We won 29 games last season with a less-experienced/less-talented roster, good for the 6th pick. We started off 0-3 after an underwhelming preseason, and only played well late when we traded Ibaka and moved Gordon to his natural position.

You expect us to be worse than that? We've got to be Suns-level to fight for the #1 pick.

What can i say, from an outsiders perspective you guys really don't really have much talent. Its seems like you guys are rebuilding, I really thought you guys would be terrible, lol.

Not a fan of Gordon/Vucevic/Fournier/Payton/ as a core but do like Fournier as 6th man.

Rainwater wrote:

Dubious Kitty wrote:

Rainwater wrote:Fluke start, you guys will fall apart lol. Honestly, winning so many games at the beginning of the season just hurts your chances of getting the top 3 in the lottery.

You have no evidence for this terrible uninformed opinion.

You go now.

Lol, New GM, No Franchise player as of yet, A Coach in his Second year, Some questionable trades made by your previous F/O, a uncertain future, Two guys in AG and Payton who not All-stars but want big time money, did you really think you would be in this current position? Seriously, lol.

We're top of the East. Suck it up.

Rainwater wrote:

MagicMadness wrote:

Rainwater wrote:
Correct me if I am wrong, if you fall to the bottom 3 don't you have an equal chance of winning the 1st pick? They made it more difficult but it is not impossible. I have followed you guys years as previously lived in Orlando and your team was such in such disarray heading into the season I never thought you guys would be any good. Although your chances of getting in the top 3 weren't the best, I still thought there was still a chance nonetheless. But winning these early games are not helping but like you said your chances were slim to begin with.

We won 29 games last season with a less-experienced/less-talented roster, good for the 6th pick. We started off 0-3 after an underwhelming preseason, and only played well late when we traded Ibaka and moved Gordon to his natural position.

You expect us to be worse than that? We've got to be Suns-level to fight for the #1 pick.

What can i say, from an outsiders perspective you guys really don't really have much talent. Its seems like you guys are rebuilding, I really thought you guys would be terrible, lol.

Well, we expect these type of uninformed opinions from a lot of you outsiders, trust me we are used to it. We've been rebuilding for the last 5 years. We brought Vogel here to develop these young guys and to take us to the playoffs, not to be at the top of the lottery. Due to coaching style and roster construction that didn't happen last year. But while you outsiders werent watching last year post all-star break, a lot of us saw things start to come together with this starting lineup and with our young guys. Alot of the problems we had such as the bench had been fixed this offseason as well. I wouldnt expect someone that dosent follow the team to see that though.

p0peye wrote:

Rainwater wrote:

Dubious Kitty wrote:
You have no evidence for this terrible uninformed opinion.

You go now.

Lol, New GM, No Franchise player as of yet, A Coach in his Second year, Some questionable trades made by your previous F/O, a uncertain future, Two guys in AG and Payton who not All-stars but want big time money, did you really think you would be in this current position? Seriously, lol.

We're top of the East. Suck it up.

It has been one week, the question is if you can maintain this for 82 games lol,

PrimeShaq wrote:

Rainwater wrote:

MagicMadness wrote:
We won 29 games last season with a less-experienced/less-talented roster, good for the 6th pick. We started off 0-3 after an underwhelming preseason, and only played well late when we traded Ibaka and moved Gordon to his natural position.

You expect us to be worse than that? We've got to be Suns-level to fight for the #1 pick.

What can i say, from an outsiders perspective you guys really don't really have much talent. Its seems like you guys are rebuilding, I really thought you guys would be terrible, lol.

Well, we expect these type of uninformed opinions from a lot of you outsiders, trust me we are used to it. We've been rebuilding for the last 5 years. We brought Vogel here to develop these young guys and to take us to the playoffs, not to be at the top of the lottery. Due to coaching style and roster construction that didn't happen last year. But while you outsiders werent watching last year post all-star break, a lot of us saw things start to come together with this starting lineup and with our young guys. Alot of the problems we had such as the bench had been fixed this offseason as well. I wouldnt expect someone that dosent follow the team to see that though.

No disrespect but magic fans have been calling playoffs since the days of Harris, Vuc and Victor Oladipo and that was the start of the rebuild. Sorry, if 5 games is not a good enough sample size to determine if this is a fluke or not.

Rainwater wrote:

PrimeShaq wrote:

Rainwater wrote:
What can i say, from an outsiders perspective you guys really don't really have much talent. Its seems like you guys are rebuilding, I really thought you guys would be terrible, lol.

Well, we expect these type of uninformed opinions from a lot of you outsiders, trust me we are used to it. We've been rebuilding for the last 5 years. We brought Vogel here to develop these young guys and to take us to the playoffs, not to be at the top of the lottery. Due to coaching style and roster construction that didn't happen last year. But while you outsiders werent watching last year post all-star break, a lot of us saw things start to come together with this starting lineup and with our young guys. Alot of the problems we had such as the bench had been fixed this offseason as well. I wouldnt expect someone that dosent follow the team to see that though.

No disrespect but magic fans have been calling playoffs since the days of Harris, Vuc and Victor Oladipo and that was the start of the rebuild. Sorry, if 5 games is not a good enough sample size to determine if this is a fluke or not.

You've made your point. Mod edit: Unnecessary.

It's understandable if you think this is just a fluke.

What I don't really understand is why anyone would've expected us to be worse than last season.

p0peye wrote:

Rainwater wrote:

PrimeShaq wrote:Well, we expect these type of uninformed opinions from a lot of you outsiders, trust me we are used to it. We've been rebuilding for the last 5 years. We brought Vogel here to develop these young guys and to take us to the playoffs, not to be at the top of the lottery. Due to coaching style and roster construction that didn't happen last year. But while you outsiders werent watching last year post all-star break, a lot of us saw things start to come together with this starting lineup and with our young guys. Alot of the problems we had such as the bench had been fixed this offseason as well. I wouldnt expect someone that dosent follow the team to see that though.

No disrespect but magic fans have been calling playoffs since the days of Harris, Vuc and Victor Oladipo and that was the start of the rebuild. Sorry, if 5 games is not a good enough sample size to determine if this is a fluke or not.

You've made your point and GTFO.

lol great informed response.

Rainwater wrote:

p0peye wrote:

Rainwater wrote:
No disrespect but magic fans have been calling playoffs since the days of Harris, Vuc and Victor Oladipo and that was the start of the rebuild. Sorry, if 5 games is not a good enough sample size to determine if this is a fluke or not.

You've made your point and GTFO.

lol great informed response.

We get to be excited about our team like once every 15 years. Will you please **** off.