Moderators: Knightro, Howard Mass, UCFJayBird, Def Swami, ChosenSavior, SOUL, UCF
Ducklett wrote:EZ my boy Elf. I wish we extended him so I could buy his Jersey.
OrlDave wrote:Elf clearly was the engine tonight. Everyone in the SL played great offensively. Except Ross... always except Ross. Evan, AG and Nik all shot 50% or better from 3 combining to go 10 for 18. Evan turned the ball over a bit (4) but made up for it with 5 steals and a block. Nik had 4 steals and a block. Rebounding was weak across the board, except for Elf with 6. Our starting bigs combined for 9 so that's something to work on. All in all, great offensive game, glad to get the win, but our defense and rebounding still need a lot of work.
Magic_Johnny12 wrote:I don't understand why Ross is still starting? Can someone fill me in the mystery advanced stat that indicates he's a positive when starting?
We literally have a better defender in Isaac that can fill in quite nicely or a better versatile player in Simmons...is this a don't fix it if it ain't broken situation?
Knightro wrote:Magic_Johnny12 wrote:I don't understand why Ross is still starting? Can someone fill me in the mystery advanced stat that indicates he's a positive when starting?
We literally have a better defender in Isaac that can fill in quite nicely or a better versatile player in Simmons...is this a don't fix it if it ain't broken situation?
It’s like y’all are making my life’s mission defending Ross’ place in the starting lineup.
The short answer? Isaac isn’t a good enough floor spacer (yet) and Simmons is a ball stopping isolation player. And I say that loving both guys.
The longer answer(s)...
-The starting lineup is producing very well with Ross in it.
-Ross is defending at a high level.
-Teams still very much respect Ross’ ability to make threes. Even though he’s struggling with them right now, teams don’t sag off him as much as they would Isaac or Simmons.
-Moving Simmons into the SL would mean gross Mack-Ross-Hezonja-Isaac-Biyombo second units that would make us all crazy.
-The Magic have two players capable of breaking defenders down off the dribble - Payton and Simmons. To me, it makes the most sense to always have one of those two on the floor and the easiest way to do that is to keep bringing Simmons off the bench.
DiplomaticMagic wrote:Ducklett wrote:EZ my boy Elf. I wish we extended him so I could buy his Jersey.
I said same thing but I bought his jersey anyway. He really has been my favorite player past couple years, think he's very underrated, and gets a lot of undeserved criticism. I have to rep for my boy EP!
If we don't re-sign Elfrid, I really don't see where we going to find an upgrade unless thru trade. But I'm telling ya, EP is the PG for this team.
yoyojw17 wrote:Knightro wrote:Magic_Johnny12 wrote:I don't understand why Ross is still starting? Can someone fill me in the mystery advanced stat that indicates he's a positive when starting?
We literally have a better defender in Isaac that can fill in quite nicely or a better versatile player in Simmons...is this a don't fix it if it ain't broken situation?
It’s like y’all are making my life’s mission defending Ross’ place in the starting lineup.
The short answer? Isaac isn’t a good enough floor spacer (yet) and Simmons is a ball stopping isolation player. And I say that loving both guys.
The longer answer(s)...
-The starting lineup is producing very well with Ross in it.
-Ross is defending at a high level.
-Teams still very much respect Ross’ ability to make threes. Even though he’s struggling with them right now, teams don’t sag off him as much as they would Isaac or Simmons.
-Moving Simmons into the SL would mean gross Mack-Ross-Hezonja-Isaac-Biyombo second units that would make us all crazy.
-The Magic have two players capable of breaking defenders down off the dribble - Payton and Simmons. To me, it makes the most sense to always have one of those two on the floor and the easiest way to do that is to keep bringing Simmons off the bench.
for a bit i was thinking of ross off the bench and giving more time to someone else that is producing. but with his defense.... he is doing great!....and at some point i'm sure his shot will fall again. When he does... that starting unit will be that more potent. Having NEW DJ and Simmons off the bench would give us the leadership and aggression we need to lead the bench unit. I definitely agree with you'll. Simmons.... shoot for 6th man award buddy and our team will be looking as good as possible over the last 5 years.
OrlandoDream wrote:DiplomaticMagic wrote:Ducklett wrote:EZ my boy Elf. I wish we extended him so I could buy his Jersey.
I said same thing but I bought his jersey anyway. He really has been my favorite player past couple years, think he's very underrated, and gets a lot of undeserved criticism. I have to rep for my boy EP!
If we don't re-sign Elfrid, I really don't see where we going to find an upgrade unless thru trade. But I'm telling ya, EP is the PG for this team.
I've been supporting EP from day 1 and still do but its gonna depend on how much he asks. The best asset he has on why he is so important to the team is the experience and chemistry of playing with the core guys (AG, Vuc, Ross, etc). He knows their tendencies, spots, and how to get them the ball and just make it easy to score for them.
With that said, any NBA level starting PG will develop that with time and experience. EP is important to us because he controls the pace and is also a great rebounding PG which is needed since we have one of the weakest rebounding frontcourts in the NBA.
I hope we sign him long term to something like 5 year 60-65mil but more than that we have to look elsewhere imo. Good news for us is that EP isnt highly regarded around the league and I dont see any team with cap offering stupid money.
MagicStarwipe wrote:OrlandoDream wrote:DiplomaticMagic wrote:
I said same thing but I bought his jersey anyway. He really has been my favorite player past couple years, think he's very underrated, and gets a lot of undeserved criticism. I have to rep for my boy EP!
If we don't re-sign Elfrid, I really don't see where we going to find an upgrade unless thru trade. But I'm telling ya, EP is the PG for this team.
I've been supporting EP from day 1 and still do but its gonna depend on how much he asks. The best asset he has on why he is so important to the team is the experience and chemistry of playing with the core guys (AG, Vuc, Ross, etc). He knows their tendencies, spots, and how to get them the ball and just make it easy to score for them.
With that said, any NBA level starting PG will develop that with time and experience. EP is important to us because he controls the pace and is also a great rebounding PG which is needed since we have one of the weakest rebounding frontcourts in the NBA.
I hope we sign him long term to something like 5 year 60-65mil but more than that we have to look elsewhere imo. Good news for us is that EP isnt highly regarded around the league and I dont see any team with cap offering stupid money.
This might be true amongst people that don't really watch us that just assume he's like MCW, but NBA GM's may regard him a bit higher.
yoyojw17 wrote:Knightro wrote:Magic_Johnny12 wrote:I don't understand why Ross is still starting? Can someone fill me in the mystery advanced stat that indicates he's a positive when starting?
We literally have a better defender in Isaac that can fill in quite nicely or a better versatile player in Simmons...is this a don't fix it if it ain't broken situation?
It’s like y’all are making my life’s mission defending Ross’ place in the starting lineup.
The short answer? Isaac isn’t a good enough floor spacer (yet) and Simmons is a ball stopping isolation player. And I say that loving both guys.
The longer answer(s)...
-The starting lineup is producing very well with Ross in it.
-Ross is defending at a high level.
-Teams still very much respect Ross’ ability to make threes. Even though he’s struggling with them right now, teams don’t sag off him as much as they would Isaac or Simmons.
-Moving Simmons into the SL would mean gross Mack-Ross-Hezonja-Isaac-Biyombo second units that would make us all crazy.
-The Magic have two players capable of breaking defenders down off the dribble - Payton and Simmons. To me, it makes the most sense to always have one of those two on the floor and the easiest way to do that is to keep bringing Simmons off the bench.
for a bit i was thinking of ross off the bench and giving more time to someone else that is producing. but with his defense.... he is doing great!....and at some point i'm sure his shot will fall again. When he does... that starting unit will be that more potent. Having NEW DJ and Simmons off the bench would give us the leadership and aggression we need to lead the bench unit. I definitely agree with you'll. Simmons.... shoot for 6th man award buddy and our team will be looking as good as possible over the last 5 years.
Magic_Johnny12 wrote:The starters -ross + isaac went 128.6 ortg and 62.3 drtg.
Vooch - Isaac combo (9 minutes together) you ask lol?
You guys ready for this?
105.9 ORTG
48.8 DRTG
Knightro wrote:Magic_Johnny12 wrote:The starters -ross + isaac went 128.6 ortg and 62.3 drtg.
Vooch - Isaac combo (9 minutes together) you ask lol?
You guys ready for this?
105.9 ORTG
48.8 DRTG
Could just be small sample size noise going against a team missing their best player, but these numbers are absolutely eye popping. It's something to monitor on this upcoming road trip.
The normal Payton-Ross-Fournier-Gordon-Vucevic starting lineup has been one of the Magic's most productive with a 27.3 NETRTG, so I'm not rushing to stop using it, but being able to slide Isaac in off the bench to replace Ross and not miss a beat would be great moving forward.
Xatticus wrote:It is a small sample and we obviously aren't going to outscore our opposition 2-to-1 by simply moving Isaac into the starting lineup for Ross, but Isaac brings a lot of what this starting unit needs. He is a better defender than Ross and much better rebounder. The move would also open up opportunities for Ross offensively by playing off of Simmons. His usage is microscopic in this first unit.
I'm not really bothered by this at the moment though, as I'm almost certain that it will happen eventually. My only concern about the move would regard Isaac keeping his foul rate down. Isaac isn't hitting his open threes yet, but he is making the right decisions and I'm content to let him continue taking those shots.
Magic_Johnny12 wrote:yoyojw17 wrote:Knightro wrote:
It’s like y’all are making my life’s mission defending Ross’ place in the starting lineup.
The short answer? Isaac isn’t a good enough floor spacer (yet) and Simmons is a ball stopping isolation player. And I say that loving both guys.
The longer answer(s)...
-The starting lineup is producing very well with Ross in it.
-Ross is defending at a high level.
-Teams still very much respect Ross’ ability to make threes. Even though he’s struggling with them right now, teams don’t sag off him as much as they would Isaac or Simmons.
-Moving Simmons into the SL would mean gross Mack-Ross-Hezonja-Isaac-Biyombo second units that would make us all crazy.
-The Magic have two players capable of breaking defenders down off the dribble - Payton and Simmons. To me, it makes the most sense to always have one of those two on the floor and the easiest way to do that is to keep bringing Simmons off the bench.
for a bit i was thinking of ross off the bench and giving more time to someone else that is producing. but with his defense.... he is doing great!....and at some point i'm sure his shot will fall again. When he does... that starting unit will be that more potent. Having NEW DJ and Simmons off the bench would give us the leadership and aggression we need to lead the bench unit. I definitely agree with you'll. Simmons.... shoot for 6th man award buddy and our team will be looking as good as possible over the last 5 years.
The starters -ross + isaac went 128.6 ortg and 62.3 drtg.
Vooch - Isaac combo (9 minutes together) you ask lol?
You guys ready for this?
105.9 ORTG
48.8 DRTG
PrimeShaq wrote:
I had posted about this in the game thread but if you go back and watch the stretch from about 6 minutes till the end of the half, it was one of the best stretches of the game. The defense was incredibly stifling. This highlight dosent do it its full justice as a lot of the great defensive plays are left out but you can see (3:40 in the video) the starters check back in with Isaac around the 6-minute mark down by 6 and frank runs that lieneup the rest of the half and we end up being up 4 at the half.
Obviously, I think Frank has been experimenting with this lineup intentionally because that is the lineup of the future. Now how close that future is remains to be seen. I don't think he can put it off for too long though because the potential that we have defensively with it is too much to pass up on.
Nemesis21 wrote:PrimeShaq wrote:
I had posted about this in the game thread but if you go back and watch the stretch from about 6 minutes till the end of the half, it was one of the best stretches of the game. The defense was incredibly stifling. This highlight dosent do it its full justice as a lot of the great defensive plays are left out but you can see (3:40 in the video) the starters check back in with Isaac around the 6-minute mark down by 6 and frank runs that lieneup the rest of the half and we end up being up 4 at the half.
Obviously, I think Frank has been experimenting with this lineup intentionally because that is the lineup of the future. Now how close that future is remains to be seen. I don't think he can put it off for too long though because the potential that we have defensively with it is too much to pass up on.
Love that extra pass from Groot, in the corner to Vuc or Gordon(can't tell who it is, Davis Steele says Gordon, but it looks like Vuc) or the open 3, at the 4:30 mark in the video.
