RealGM

Well don’t ya?
Do I need to list why?

Sorry, just got over frustrated reading VO stats.

I mean Bismarck’s contract is more egregious to me.


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Not as much as I want to slap you for this lame thread. Not as much as I want to slap DeVos/Martins.

Nemesis21 wrote:Not as much as I want to slap you for this lame thread. Not as much as I want to slap DeVos/Martins.

Here we go.

I think Rob had his faults, but it was upper management that was really screwing us over.

I personally don't think upper management called all the shots. I think Henny called Most of the personnel shots. But, we can blame management from not stopping Henny from throwing money around on horrible free agents. And, if we do remember how ecstatic Henny was over drafting Mario. That was another Henny blunder. I think Henny had final say on all trades and acquisitions. Thus, that is why he is mainly the one to blame. Most of Upper Managements job pertains to day to day business operations, not signing or trading players which is a major fan misperception.

Why in the hell have six scouts and all these talent evaluators on the coaching staff if some business man is going to tell you what to do? See how stupid that sounds. Thus, Upper Management is not to blame for Scouting and GM's failures.

BadMofoPimp wrote:I personally don't think upper management called all the shots. I think Henny called Most of the personnel shots. But, we can blame management from not stopping Henny from throwing money around on horrible free agents. And, if we do remember how ecstatic Henny was over drafting Mario. That was another Henny blunder. I think Henny had final say on all trades and acquisitions. Thus, that is why he is mainly the one to blame. Most of Upper Managements job pertains to day to day business operations, not signing or trading players which is a major fan misperception.

Why in the hell have six scouts and all these talent evaluators on the coaching staff if some business man is going to tell you what to do? See how stupid that sounds. Thus, Upper Management is not to blame for Scouting and GM's failures.

Because that business man owns the team. Has final say on EVERYTHING. Can fire you if you don't do what they want.

BadMofoPimp wrote:I personally don't think upper management called all the shots. I think Henny called Most of the personnel shots. But, we can blame management from not stopping Henny from throwing money around on horrible free agents. And, if we do remember how ecstatic Henny was over drafting Mario. That was another Henny blunder. I think Henny had final say on all trades and acquisitions. Thus, that is why he is mainly the one to blame. Most of Upper Managements job pertains to day to day business operations, not signing or trading players which is a major fan misperception.

Why in the hell have six scouts and all these talent evaluators on the coaching staff if some business man is going to tell you what to do? See how stupid that sounds. Thus, Upper Management is not to blame for Scouting and GM's failures.

there is no way i believe that mgmt didnt force the Harris - Jennings/Ilyasova trade. that was totally a power play with Skiles vs Hennigan

I do believe he made the Ibaka trade on his own, thinking that AG wasnt developing fast enough and trying to put what on paper should have been a great fit next to Vuc. And projecting out Dipo vs Fournier and salary demands. though he turned right around and threw any saved money at Biyombo

Nemesis21 wrote:

BadMofoPimp wrote:I personally don't think upper management called all the shots. I think Henny called Most of the personnel shots. But, we can blame management from not stopping Henny from throwing money around on horrible free agents. And, if we do remember how ecstatic Henny was over drafting Mario. That was another Henny blunder. I think Henny had final say on all trades and acquisitions. Thus, that is why he is mainly the one to blame. Most of Upper Managements job pertains to day to day business operations, not signing or trading players which is a major fan misperception.

Why in the hell have six scouts and all these talent evaluators on the coaching staff if some business man is going to tell you what to do? See how stupid that sounds. Thus, Upper Management is not to blame for Scouting and GM's failures.

Because that business man owns the team. Has final say on EVERYTHING. Can fire you if you don't do what they want.

This is pure speculation. If a GM's job is to manage the team and he has his entire staff plus numerous scouts and advisors, why pay $5-10 million dollars on all these people if the guy running business operations is going to tell you, hey, I want you to only sign, draft and trade who I tell you to do. See how obtuse that is. Upper Management has its faults which were possibly allowing Henny too much freedom to run amok with Devos money making bad signings and draft picks, but personnel decisions were Henny's problem, not Martins or Devos.

Nemesis21 wrote:Not as much as I want to slap you for this lame thread. Not as much as I want to slap DeVos/Martins.

If this thread is so lame (which I don’t disagree)
Then what does it say about you and the time you wasted to respond to it?

BadMofoPimp wrote:

Nemesis21 wrote:

BadMofoPimp wrote:I personally don't think upper management called all the shots. I think Henny called Most of the personnel shots. But, we can blame management from not stopping Henny from throwing money around on horrible free agents. And, if we do remember how ecstatic Henny was over drafting Mario. That was another Henny blunder. I think Henny had final say on all trades and acquisitions. Thus, that is why he is mainly the one to blame. Most of Upper Managements job pertains to day to day business operations, not signing or trading players which is a major fan misperception.

Why in the hell have six scouts and all these talent evaluators on the coaching staff if some business man is going to tell you what to do? See how stupid that sounds. Thus, Upper Management is not to blame for Scouting and GM's failures.

Because that business man owns the team. Has final say on EVERYTHING. Can fire you if you don't do what they want.

This is pure speculation. If a GM's job is to manage the team and he has his entire staff plus numerous scouts and advisors, why pay $5-10 million dollars on all these people if the guy running business operations is going to tell you, hey, I want you to only sign, draft and trade who I tell you to do. See how obtuse that is. Upper Management has its faults which were possibly allowing Henny too much freedom to run amok with Devos money making bad signings and draft picks, but personnel decisions were Henny's problem, not Martins or Devos.

It is not pure speculation. If you truly believe that no business owner has never stuck there nose where it doesn't belong, in the history of business and businessmen, than you are insane.

The proof in the Magic situation is there. You know it is. You also know there a quite a lot of people saying the same as me. So no it's not speculation, it's not some half cocked conspiracy theory.

It's not obtuse at all, owners tell CEO's, President's, Vice President's, GMs of their company what to do all the time. They are the owner, they have the power and say so to do so.

magickingdom wrote:

Nemesis21 wrote:Not as much as I want to slap you for this lame thread. Not as much as I want to slap DeVos/Martins.

If this thread is so lame (which I don’t disagree)
Then what does it say about you and the time you wasted to respond to it?

It says exactly what my post says. Slap the chit out of you is what it says about me.

not again dont want to do this anymore How many times I need to prove Nemesis wrong?
[youtube][/youtube]

~Snoopy~ wrote:not again dont want to do this anymore How many times I need to prove Nemesis wrong?
[youtube]

Watch on YouTube

[/youtube]

So far you, NEM and Badmofo have not proven me wrong.

Nemesis21 wrote:

BadMofoPimp wrote:

Nemesis21 wrote:





Because that business man owns the team. Has final say on EVERYTHING. Can fire you if you don't do what they want.

This is pure speculation. If a GM's job is to manage the team and he has his entire staff plus numerous scouts and advisors, why pay $5-10 million dollars on all these people if the guy running business operations is going to tell you, hey, I want you to only sign, draft and trade who I tell you to do. See how obtuse that is. Upper Management has its faults which were possibly allowing Henny too much freedom to run amok with Devos money making bad signings and draft picks, but personnel decisions were Henny's problem, not Martins or Devos.

It is not pure speculation. If you truly believe that no business owner has never stuck there nose where it doesn't belong, in the history of business and businessmen, than you are insane.

The proof in the Magic situation is there. You know it is. You also know there a quite a lot of people saying the same as me. So no it's not speculation, it's not some half cocked conspiracy theory.

It's not obtuse at all, owners tell CEO's, President's, Vice President's, GMs of their company what to do all the time. They are the owner, they have the power and say so to do so.

and look at Jerry Jones in Dallas, Dan Snyder in Washington. Owners that push their ideas and agenda on GM's and coaches. Same with Sacramento, OKC (pushing the Harden trade because of money), Chicago. plenty of time owners and upper level management override lower level management and coaches.

tiderulz wrote:

Nemesis21 wrote:

BadMofoPimp wrote:
This is pure speculation. If a GM's job is to manage the team and he has his entire staff plus numerous scouts and advisors, why pay $5-10 million dollars on all these people if the guy running business operations is going to tell you, hey, I want you to only sign, draft and trade who I tell you to do. See how obtuse that is. Upper Management has its faults which were possibly allowing Henny too much freedom to run amok with Devos money making bad signings and draft picks, but personnel decisions were Henny's problem, not Martins or Devos.

It is not pure speculation. If you truly believe that no business owner has never stuck there nose where it doesn't belong, in the history of business and businessmen, than you are insane.

The proof in the Magic situation is there. You know it is. You also know there a quite a lot of people saying the same as me. So no it's not speculation, it's not some half cocked conspiracy theory.

It's not obtuse at all, owners tell CEO's, President's, Vice President's, GMs of their company what to do all the time. They are the owner, they have the power and say so to do so.

and look at Jerry Jones in Dallas, Dan Snyder in Washington. Owners that push their ideas and agenda on GM's and coaches. Same with Sacramento, OKC (pushing the Harden trade because of money), Chicago. plenty of time owners and upper level management override lower level management and coaches.

Has Devos in his 30+ years of ownership been one to throw his weight around? He is nothing like Jone or Snyder. That is absurd. Do we think all of a sudden after all these years, management is all of a sudden override Coaches, Training staff AND Scouts because they think that businessmen know more than professional scouts? Henny had final say in all decisions. Henny has said that as well as others within the organization. Anything beyond that is a conspiracy just because the team blows. I bet every single organization that goes through years of heartache blames everything and everyone. That is what is happening here. People panic and blame ideas off their head. If a player looks even slightly angry, they are mad at coach, management, teammates and the world. But, they are most likely angry at themselves for not doing better.

Nemesis21 wrote:

~Snoopy~ wrote:not again dont want to do this anymore How many times I need to prove Nemesis wrong?
[youtube]

Watch on YouTube

[/youtube]

So far you, NEM and Badmofo have not proven me wrong.

In this argument, you have proven not a single person wrong yet.

BadMofoPimp wrote:

tiderulz wrote:

Nemesis21 wrote:

It is not pure speculation. If you truly believe that no business owner has never stuck there nose where it doesn't belong, in the history of business and businessmen, than you are insane.

The proof in the Magic situation is there. You know it is. You also know there a quite a lot of people saying the same as me. So no it's not speculation, it's not some half cocked conspiracy theory.

It's not obtuse at all, owners tell CEO's, President's, Vice President's, GMs of their company what to do all the time. They are the owner, they have the power and say so to do so.

and look at Jerry Jones in Dallas, Dan Snyder in Washington. Owners that push their ideas and agenda on GM's and coaches. Same with Sacramento, OKC (pushing the Harden trade because of money), Chicago. plenty of time owners and upper level management override lower level management and coaches.

Has Devos in his 30+ years of ownership been one to throw his weight around? He is nothing like Jone or Snyder. That is absurd. Do we think all of a sudden after all these years, management is all of a sudden override Coaches, Training staff AND Scouts because they think that businessmen know more than professional scouts? Henny had final say in all decisions. Henny has said that as well as others within the organization. Anything beyond that is a conspiracy just because the team blows. I bet every single organization that goes through years of heartache blames everything and everyone. That is what is happening here. People panic and blame ideas off their head. If a player looks even slightly angry, they are mad at coach, management, teammates and the world. But, they are most likely angry at themselves for not doing better.

Maybe Devos isnt, but i could see Alex Martins doing that. Wasnt he already ripped by the Van Gundy brothers about things like this?

tiderulz wrote:

BadMofoPimp wrote:

tiderulz wrote:
and look at Jerry Jones in Dallas, Dan Snyder in Washington. Owners that push their ideas and agenda on GM's and coaches. Same with Sacramento, OKC (pushing the Harden trade because of money), Chicago. plenty of time owners and upper level management override lower level management and coaches.

Has Devos in his 30+ years of ownership been one to throw his weight around? He is nothing like Jone or Snyder. That is absurd. Do we think all of a sudden after all these years, management is all of a sudden override Coaches, Training staff AND Scouts because they think that businessmen know more than professional scouts? Henny had final say in all decisions. Henny has said that as well as others within the organization. Anything beyond that is a conspiracy just because the team blows. I bet every single organization that goes through years of heartache blames everything and everyone. That is what is happening here. People panic and blame ideas off their head. If a player looks even slightly angry, they are mad at coach, management, teammates and the world. But, they are most likely angry at themselves for not doing better.

Maybe Devos isnt, but i could see Alex Martins doing that. Wasnt he already ripped by the Van Gundy brothers about things like this?

The JVG brothers ripped Martins for (read my signature) and

Van Gundy added that he felt the "culture and values" of the organization changed after former CEO Bob Vander Weide retired and Martins was promoted to his position.

“When Bob left, it really became Alex over everything,” Van Gundy said. “The Dwight thing was so big….in an effort, I guess, to make Dwight happy and everything else, we compromised a lot of the culture and values we had before that. It’s always a mistake when you compromise those things…everything goes South. It was no longer a team-first thing ... It was inevitable things would not go as well.”

Martins pushed a win-now mantra too early and Hennigan failed to deliver. Simple as that. Both parties are at fault.