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Elfrid Payton just doesn't make players better

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Re: Elfrid Payton just doesn't make players better 

Post#181 » by Audi » Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:14 pm

Let's not get too carried away here - we don't really know what type of effort he puts in off the court.

On the court, I think part of the issue is he is either operating at high intensity/effort or not. We need him to find that middle ground. We don't need him at his 5th gear all the time. It would be nice of course, because if he did that, he'd be a top 5 PG, but we don't really need it. We need him at like, 3rd gear consistently with some 1st and 5th games thrown in there.
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Re: Elfrid Payton just doesn't make players better 

Post#182 » by asianguy » Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:15 pm

Audi wrote:Let's not get too carried away here - we don't really know what type of effort he puts in off the court.

On the court, I think part of the issue is he is either operating at high intensity/effort or not. We need him to find that middle ground. We don't need him at his 5th gear all the time. It would be nice of course, because if he did that, he'd be a top 5 PG, but we don't really need it. We need him at like, 3rd gear consistently with some 1st and 5th games thrown in there.

I don't care what gear he at, I don't see a world where he's a top 5 PG.
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Re: Elfrid Payton just doesn't make players better 

Post#183 » by pepe1991 » Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:30 pm

Audi wrote:Let's not get too carried away here - we don't really know what type of effort he puts in off the court.

On the court, I think part of the issue is he is either operating at high intensity/effort or not. We need him to find that middle ground. We don't need him at his 5th gear all the time. It would be nice of course, because if he did that, he'd be a top 5 PG, but we don't really need it. We need him at like, 3rd gear consistently with some 1st and 5th games thrown in there.


Top 5 ? :lol:
Let's count a top 10 pgs with broken jumpshot:-

nice list there guys. Honorable mention ,6'10, 41 inch, 250 pounds - Lebron told him that he has chance to be better than him- Ben Simmons.
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Re: Elfrid Payton just doesn't make players better 

Post#184 » by Audi » Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:43 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
Audi wrote:Let's not get too carried away here - we don't really know what type of effort he puts in off the court.

On the court, I think part of the issue is he is either operating at high intensity/effort or not. We need him to find that middle ground. We don't need him at his 5th gear all the time. It would be nice of course, because if he did that, he'd be a top 5 PG, but we don't really need it. We need him at like, 3rd gear consistently with some 1st and 5th games thrown in there.


Top 5 ? :lol:
Let's count a top 10 pgs with broken jumpshot:-

nice list there guys. Honorable mention ,6'10, 41 inch, 250 pounds - Lebron told him that he has chance to be better than him- Ben Simmons.


Man do you even read posts or just jump to whatever it is you feel like saying?

From what we've seen :
Elfrid Payton in 5th gear = plays at high lvl, posts triple double

What I said:
"We don't need him at his 5th gear all the time."

What logic suggests when you put two and two together:
Elfrid Payton in 5th gear all the time = consistently posting triple doubles

What basketball suggests:
PG consistently posting triple doubles = top 5 PG

Anyone who doesn't think he'd be a top 5 PG if he did that is just hating because it's him.
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Re: Elfrid Payton just doesn't make players better 

Post#185 » by fendilim » Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:57 pm

Audi wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
Audi wrote:Let's not get too carried away here - we don't really know what type of effort he puts in off the court.

On the court, I think part of the issue is he is either operating at high intensity/effort or not. We need him to find that middle ground. We don't need him at his 5th gear all the time. It would be nice of course, because if he did that, he'd be a top 5 PG, but we don't really need it. We need him at like, 3rd gear consistently with some 1st and 5th games thrown in there.


Top 5 ? :lol:
Let's count a top 10 pgs with broken jumpshot:-

nice list there guys. Honorable mention ,6'10, 41 inch, 250 pounds - Lebron told him that he has chance to be better than him- Ben Simmons.


Man do you even read posts or just jump to whatever it is you feel like saying?

From what we've seen :
Elfrid Payton in 5th gear = plays at high lvl, posts triple double

What I said:
"We don't need him at his 5th gear all the time."

What logic suggests when you put two and two together:
Elfrid Payton in 5th gear all the time = consistently posting triple doubles

What basketball suggests:
PG consistently posting triple doubles = top 5 PG

Anyone who doesn't think he'd be a top 5 PG if he did that is just hating because it's him.

To be fair, at this point, we need him to be playing at 5th gear all the time until the other players come back. Hopefully last game was just an adjustment.
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Re: Elfrid Payton just doesn't make players better 

Post#186 » by GameOver25 » Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:39 pm

The thing is we've seen enough of Payton's demeanor to know when he's engaged and when he's just out there being a warm body. When he's a warm body he just looks disinterested in the game completely and that's what frustrates me the most about him. Maybe it's because I've seen him when he's interested and know what he's capable of doing. Personally I'm just tired of his Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde play. Sometimes he's plays "pissed" and puts up numbers (triple doubles), and then on the flip side when he looks "pissed" he sulks and we get those 7pts 4asts 2reb games from him and that's just not going to cut it.
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Re: Elfrid Payton just doesn't make players better 

Post#187 » by tiderulz » Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:14 pm

Audi wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
Audi wrote:Let's not get too carried away here - we don't really know what type of effort he puts in off the court.

On the court, I think part of the issue is he is either operating at high intensity/effort or not. We need him to find that middle ground. We don't need him at his 5th gear all the time. It would be nice of course, because if he did that, he'd be a top 5 PG, but we don't really need it. We need him at like, 3rd gear consistently with some 1st and 5th games thrown in there.


Top 5 ? :lol:
Let's count a top 10 pgs with broken jumpshot:-

nice list there guys. Honorable mention ,6'10, 41 inch, 250 pounds - Lebron told him that he has chance to be better than him- Ben Simmons.


Man do you even read posts or just jump to whatever it is you feel like saying?

From what we've seen :
Elfrid Payton in 5th gear = plays at high lvl, posts triple double

What I said:
"We don't need him at his 5th gear all the time."

What logic suggests when you put two and two together:
Elfrid Payton in 5th gear all the time = consistently posting triple doubles

What basketball suggests:
PG consistently posting triple doubles = top 5 PG

Anyone who doesn't think he'd be a top 5 PG if he did that is just hating because it's him.


we are not a good enough team, and his game is not good enough, that he can play in "3rd gear". He needs to have high intensity every time he is on the court
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Re: Elfrid Payton just doesn't make players better 

Post#188 » by Blue_and_Whte » Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:24 pm

Audi wrote:Let's not get too carried away here - we don't really know what type of effort he puts in off the court.

On the court, I think part of the issue is he is either operating at high intensity/effort or not. We need him to find that middle ground. We don't need him at his 5th gear all the time. It would be nice of course, because if he did that, he'd be a top 5 PG, but we don't really need it. We need him at like, 3rd gear consistently with some 1st and 5th games thrown in there.
What?! If playing at 5th gear makes him a top 5 PG in the NBA then he better damn well play at 5th gear most of the game. This team absolutely, unequivocally, need a top 5 PG on this team.
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Re: Elfrid Payton just doesn't make players better 

Post#189 » by Audi » Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:12 pm

Blue_and_Whte wrote:
Audi wrote:Let's not get too carried away here - we don't really know what type of effort he puts in off the court.

On the court, I think part of the issue is he is either operating at high intensity/effort or not. We need him to find that middle ground. We don't need him at his 5th gear all the time. It would be nice of course, because if he did that, he'd be a top 5 PG, but we don't really need it. We need him at like, 3rd gear consistently with some 1st and 5th games thrown in there.


What?! If playing at 5th gear makes him a top 5 PG in the NBA then he better damn well play at 5th gear most of the game. This team absolutely, unequivocally, need a top 5 PG on this team.


Haha - like I said - "it would be nice, of course". What I meant was - we really only need to him to play consistently somewhere in between low effort and max effort to be successful. Didn't mean we can't use a top 5 PG - sorry for the poor wording. :lol:
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Re: Elfrid Payton just doesn't make players better 

Post#190 » by pepe1991 » Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:36 pm

Audi wrote:
Blue_and_Whte wrote:
Audi wrote:Let's not get too carried away here - we don't really know what type of effort he puts in off the court.

On the court, I think part of the issue is he is either operating at high intensity/effort or not. We need him to find that middle ground. We don't need him at his 5th gear all the time. It would be nice of course, because if he did that, he'd be a top 5 PG, but we don't really need it. We need him at like, 3rd gear consistently with some 1st and 5th games thrown in there.


What?! If playing at 5th gear makes him a top 5 PG in the NBA then he better damn well play at 5th gear most of the game. This team absolutely, unequivocally, need a top 5 PG on this team.


Haha - like I said - "it would be nice, of course". What I meant was - we really only need to him to play consistently somewhere in between low effort and max effort to be successful. Didn't mean we can't use a top 5 PG - sorry for the poor wording. :lol:


Even fact that we question his effort, being in contract year, at age of 23 is bad enough.
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Re: Elfrid Payton just doesn't make players better 

Post#191 » by Orlando_kingdom » Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:35 am

PAYTON'S PLAY MARKING SKILLS IS AS WORST MILLS
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Re: Elfrid Payton just doesn't make players better 

Post#192 » by MartinsIzAfraud » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:11 pm

EP
- opponents are shooting 5.3 percentage points better from 3-point range when “guarded” by Payton
- contributes a scanty 10.8 points, good for 33rd among point guards per ESPN.com
- averaging the fewest field goal attempts per game (9.4) since his rookie season

https://www.fanragsports.com/elfrid-payton-remains-an-unconventional-unknown/
A scoring guard.. never heard of one. :roll:
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Re: Elfrid Payton just doesn't make players better 

Post#193 » by pepe1991 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:06 am

I swear, more i watch him play, less i understand why people see in him. Even if i turn off my previous opinions and focus on one game at time, he still comes off as somebody who happends to start because starting PG is hurt . He doesn't even look like somebody who has 4 years of experience as starter.
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Re: Elfrid Payton just doesn't make players better 

Post#194 » by ChosenSavior » Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:21 am

I really want to like Elfrid but he just does not come across as a starting NBA PG at this point in his career. Now I do feel he isn't being utilized at his best since the ball has been taken from his hands a bit to allow Simms to run the offense, however he plays with erratic effort especially on the defensive end where he was supposed to be an impact player from day one when he was drafted. For a guy that is up for a new contract, that is very alarming to me that this is still happening.

I actually think he would be more beneficial off the bench where he can be allowed to have the ball in his hands and create for others but making that move may further destroy the little chemistry that is available on this team.

It was depressing to watch Jawun Evans basically pick up Elfrid full court and completely bother him as he struggled to get by him over and over again.
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Re: Elfrid Payton just doesn't make players better 

Post#195 » by tiderulz » Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:59 pm

ChosenSavior wrote:I really want to like Elfrid but he just does not come across as a starting NBA PG at this point in his career. Now I do feel he isn't being utilized at his best since the ball has been taken from his hands a bit to allow Simms to run the offense, however he plays with erratic effort especially on the defensive end where he was supposed to be an impact player from day one when he was drafted. For a guy that is up for a new contract, that is very alarming to me that this is still happening.

I actually think he would be more beneficial off the bench where he can be allowed to have the ball in his hands and create for others but making that move may further destroy the little chemistry that is available on this team.

It was depressing to watch Jawun Evans basically pick up Elfrid full court and completely bother him as he struggled to get by him over and over again.


this is what i dont understand. he was the 2014 college defensive player of the year, but i have yet to really see great defense or even consistently good defense from him. even if his shot wasn't falling, if that defensive intensity was there it would be something. Patrick Beverly has never been known as an offensive PG, but he had that defensive intensity. At 6'4 with 6'7 range, he should be able to play much better defense than he does.
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Re: Elfrid Payton just doesn't make players better 

Post#196 » by MartinsIzAfraud » Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:17 pm

tiderulz wrote:
ChosenSavior wrote:I really want to like Elfrid but he just does not come across as a starting NBA PG at this point in his career. Now I do feel he isn't being utilized at his best since the ball has been taken from his hands a bit to allow Simms to run the offense, however he plays with erratic effort especially on the defensive end where he was supposed to be an impact player from day one when he was drafted. For a guy that is up for a new contract, that is very alarming to me that this is still happening.

I actually think he would be more beneficial off the bench where he can be allowed to have the ball in his hands and create for others but making that move may further destroy the little chemistry that is available on this team.

It was depressing to watch Jawun Evans basically pick up Elfrid full court and completely bother him as he struggled to get by him over and over again.


this is what i dont understand. he was the 2014 college defensive player of the year, but i have yet to really see great defense or even consistently good defense from him. even if his shot wasn't falling, if that defensive intensity was there it would be something. Patrick Beverly has never been known as an offensive PG, but he had that defensive intensity. At 6'4 with 6'7 range, he should be able to play much better defense than he does.



its an effort type thing.. some players have the dawg in them and some dont. EP is way to passive to feast in this dawg like nba. Listen to an interview with EP and you'd think his mother just died. SOOOO quiet, uncomfortable and awkward, dude just looks down and mumbles. How you expect this man to lead the team when he can't even look you in the eye ?

http://www.nba.com/magic/videos/elfrid-payton/exit-interviews-20170413
A scoring guard.. never heard of one. :roll:
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Re: Elfrid Payton just doesn't make players better 

Post#197 » by Instincts » Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:08 pm

Elfrid is playing very well. As dysfunctional as the team is as a unit, Elfrid is still just 23 and showing growth and improvement. His shooting has improved drastically, his drive /floater game is really impressive, and I definitely think he makes players better with his passing skills.

Surprisingly enough, what I question now is his defense. It seems like his defense is questionable, though it is hard to tell if it is his effort, or just a dysfunctional team defense, or just poor individual defensive skills. Thoughts on his defense?

Defense aside, the more I watch him lately, the more I am seeing a player that I do not want to see flourish on another team. Of course he needs his role better defined by coaching staff, sure he needs to be more aggressive, sure if the goal is "win now" then we could use an upgrade at the point. But I don't want to let him go easily and possibly repeat a mistake of impatience in the development process, his prime years are still four years away.
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Re: Elfrid Payton just doesn't make players better 

Post#198 » by Skin » Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:53 pm

ChosenSavior wrote:I really want to like Elfrid but he just does not come across as a starting NBA PG at this point in his career. Now I do feel he isn't being utilized at his best since the ball has been taken from his hands a bit to allow Simms to run the offense, however he plays with erratic effort especially on the defensive end where he was supposed to be an impact player from day one when he was drafted. For a guy that is up for a new contract, that is very alarming to me that this is still happening.

I actually think he would be more beneficial off the bench where he can be allowed to have the ball in his hands and create for others but making that move may further destroy the little chemistry that is available on this team.

It was depressing to watch Jawun Evans basically pick up Elfrid full court and completely bother him as he struggled to get by him over and over again.

:banghead:

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Re: Elfrid Payton just doesn't make players better 

Post#199 » by DjPuffnStuff » Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:12 pm

Orlando_kingdom wrote:PAYTON'S PLAY MARKING SKILLS IS AS WORST MILLS

THIS
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Re: Elfrid Payton just doesn't make players better 

Post#200 » by shinoff2183 » Tue Jan 2, 2018 4:20 am

I never really cared to much for elf(because his shot) and to this day I still believe we traded the wrong person and pick back a few years ago.
On another note elf can get triple doubles until he is blue in the face, but without a respectable shot he is hurting us more then helping I said that back then and I believe it still rings true

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