Jeff Weltman: decisions are coming

Skin · Post #21 » by **Skin** » Fri Jan 5, 2018 6:05 pm

From what I got from that is that we are drafting Trae Young. :rocking:

PennytoShaq · Post #22 » by **PennytoShaq** » Fri Jan 5, 2018 6:10 pm

I'm down with that.

T-Cat · Post #23 » by **T-Cat** » Fri Jan 5, 2018 6:20 pm

Skin wrote:From what I got from that is that we are drafting Trae Young.

How did you get that assumption?

PennytoShaq · Post #24 » by **PennytoShaq** » Fri Jan 5, 2018 6:31 pm

Well the data (a little of which I posted in another thread) on Elf is pretty bad. I am quite sure Weltman sees it. It's killing the Magic on offense.

So you look at the statistical evidence, then read that he thinks Elf is a "neat guy" and it doesn't bode well. A GM will never say a guy sucks, but if you read how he talks about AG in comparison, it's miles different.

magicman112 · Post #25 » by **magicman112** » Fri Jan 5, 2018 6:33 pm

I think it's pretty much a lock we will be making some moves (or a move) in the next few weeks. Hopefully they take back picks/young talent/solid vets on good contracts. Then just see what you have the rest of the season and go from there.

TreasureCoast · Post #26 » by **TreasureCoast** » Fri Jan 5, 2018 6:33 pm

Do you want your girlfriend/wife or boss saying you are a "neat"guy? I sure don't, Elf is as good as gone!

magicman112 · Post #27 » by **magicman112** » Fri Jan 5, 2018 6:34 pm

PennytoShaq wrote:Well the data (a little of which I posted in another thread) on Elf is pretty bad. I am quite sure Weltman sees it. It's killing the Magic on offense.

So you look at the statistical evidence, then read that he thinks Elf is a "neat guy" and it doesn't bode well. A GM will never say a guy sucks, but if you read how he talks about AG in comparison, it's miles different.

I wouldn't mind Elf in a backup role where his weaknesses wouldn't be as glaring. He could just come right in and be aggressive and attack the basket and set people up based off of that.

PennytoShaq · Post #28 » by **PennytoShaq** » Fri Jan 5, 2018 6:36 pm

magicman112 wrote:
PennytoShaq wrote:Well the data (a little of which I posted in another thread) on Elf is pretty bad. I am quite sure Weltman sees it. It's killing the Magic on offense.

So you look at the statistical evidence, then read that he thinks Elf is a "neat guy" and it doesn't bode well. A GM will never say a guy sucks, but if you read how he talks about AG in comparison, it's miles different.

I wouldn't mind Elf in a backup role where his weaknesses wouldn't be as glaring. He could just come right in and be aggressive and attack the basket and set people up based off of that.

Yes. That's been my opinion for years now. I hope he stays on the team. But I want a guy like Young as the PG.

Nemesis21 · Post #29 » by **Nemesis21** » Fri Jan 5, 2018 6:36 pm

TreasureCoast wrote:Do you want your girlfriend/wife or boss saying you are a "neat"guy? I sure don't, Elf is as good as gone!

I'd like to keep him to backup Trae Young. :wink:

He's better than DJ and Mack.

TreasureCoast · Post #30 » by **TreasureCoast** » Fri Jan 5, 2018 6:46 pm

Nemesis21 wrote:
TreasureCoast wrote:Do you want your girlfriend/wife or boss saying you are a "neat"guy? I sure don't, Elf is as good as gone!

I'd like to keep him to backup Trae Young. He's better than DJ and Mack.

Trae Young is highly risky with his size in the NBA, definitely an elite shooter though. Elfrid as a backup would be great but at what cost? And isn't a player/organization relationship runied after being a starter for a few years and then get thrown to the bench? I would think he would rather be a benchie for another team.

Nemesis21 · Post #31 » by **Nemesis21** » Fri Jan 5, 2018 6:49 pm

TreasureCoast wrote:
Nemesis21 wrote:
TreasureCoast wrote:Do you want your girlfriend/wife or boss saying you are a "neat"guy? I sure don't, Elf is as good as gone!

I'd like to keep him to backup Trae Young. He's better than DJ and Mack.

Trae Young is highly risky with his size in the NBA, definitely an elite shooter though. Elfrid as a backup would be great but at what cost? And isn't a player/organization relationship runied after being a starter for a few years and then get thrown to the bench? I would think he would rather be a benchie for another team.

If we get a top 3, I don't think we can afford not to take that risk on Young. I'm starting to want him over Doncic(I see as SG/SF) which is who I've been very high on for months.
IDK about that with EP, he seems like a calm laid back guy. So who knows.

PennytoShaq · Post #32 » by **PennytoShaq** » Fri Jan 5, 2018 7:21 pm

Hopefully Young's risk keeps him in our range. Because this dude is so far killing it. I want to see him give us a full body of work, but what he is doing is more impressive than any PG in the draft last year. I don't care how tall he is. Isiah Thomas is like 5'7 and he's amazing.

T-Cat · Post #33 » by **T-Cat** » Fri Jan 5, 2018 7:22 pm

Nemesis21 wrote:
TreasureCoast wrote:
Nemesis21 wrote:

I'd like to keep him to backup Trae Young. He's better than DJ and Mack.

Trae Young is highly risky with his size in the NBA, definitely an elite shooter though. Elfrid as a backup would be great but at what cost? And isn't a player/organization relationship runied after being a starter for a few years and then get thrown to the bench? I would think he would rather be a benchie for another team.

If we get a top 3, I don't think we can afford not to take that risk on Young. I'm starting to want him over Doncic(I see as SG/SF) which is who I've been very high on for months.
IDK about that with EP, he seems like a calm laid back guy. So who knows.

Trae Young plays tomorrow against a tough defensive Virginia squad!

I know a lot of scouts would be watching!

BadMofoPimp · Post #34 » by **BadMofoPimp** » Fri Jan 5, 2018 7:27 pm

Nemesis21 wrote:
TreasureCoast wrote:
Nemesis21 wrote:

I'd like to keep him to backup Trae Young. He's better than DJ and Mack.

Trae Young is highly risky with his size in the NBA, definitely an elite shooter though. Elfrid as a backup would be great but at what cost? And isn't a player/organization relationship runied after being a starter for a few years and then get thrown to the bench? I would think he would rather be a benchie for another team.

If we get a top 3, I don't think we can afford not to take that risk on Young. I'm starting to want him over Doncic(I see as SG/SF) which is who I've been very high on for months.
IDK about that with EP, he seems like a calm laid back guy. So who knows.

To me Trae Young is a SG in a PG's body. Most of his assisting passes are heaves and lobs than by designed plays. He does have good handles but I reckon he will improve over time in the assist department. I wonder how Trae's defense would be against NBA guards. Magic would need a great defensive SG to play alongside him.

Optimus_Steel · Post #35 » by **Optimus_Steel** » Fri Jan 5, 2018 7:35 pm

TreasureCoast wrote:Do you want your girlfriend/wife or boss saying you are a "neat"guy? I sure don't, Elf is as good as gone!

Its the kiss of death.

Post #36 » by **UCFJayBird** » Fri Jan 5, 2018 7:37 pm

*insert any Magic player*

p0peye · Post #37 » by **p0peye** » Fri Jan 5, 2018 7:55 pm

Optimus_Steel wrote:
TreasureCoast wrote:Do you want your girlfriend/wife or boss saying you are a "neat"guy? I sure don't, Elf is as good as gone!

Its the kiss of death.

Skin · Post #38 » by **Skin** » Fri Jan 5, 2018 8:09 pm

Weltman: The goal coming into this season was to understand what we have: how our players play together, who we felt were more dominant personalities, dominant players, where people were on their different curves because every guy is at a different point in his career and understand the journey of each one of our players and understand how that all fits together.

These are the words that mean the most to me.

I've been harping down on the bad chemistry issues on this team and this statement does 2 things for me.

1) It confirms it.

2) It gives me a big sigh of relief to know that we have a FO that understands the importance player dynamics means in terms of rebuilding.

We have good players. They just don't fit together and as painfully obvious as that is, sometimes you don't know if the FO gets it. This time they do! It's refreshing.

Scary thing is they could make decisions on it in a variety of ways. If they charge for the playoffs again, maybe they do what Henny did in trading Dipo for a vet like Ibaka and build around Vuc and Fournier. That could mean the end for Gordon here. Or that could mean the end of Vuc or Fournier here. Or it could mean any combination of things. But it's obvious "decisions are coming". The only safe player is Jonathan Isaac.

Nemesis21 · Post #39 » by **Nemesis21** » Fri Jan 5, 2018 8:40 pm

Skin wrote:
Weltman: The goal coming into this season was to understand what we have: how our players play together, who we felt were more dominant personalities, dominant players, where people were on their different curves because every guy is at a different point in his career and understand the journey of each one of our players and understand how that all fits together.

These are the words that mean the most to me.

I've been harping down on the bad chemistry issues on this team and this statement does 2 things for me.

1) It confirms it.

2) It gives me a big sigh of relief to know that we have a FO that understands the importance player dynamics means in terms of rebuilding.

We have good players. They just don't fit together and as painfully obvious as that is, sometimes you don't know if the FO gets it. This time they do! It's refreshing.

Scary thing is they could make decisions on it in a variety of ways. If they charge for the playoffs again, maybe they do what Henny did in trading Dipo for a vet like Ibaka and build around Vuc and Fournier. That could mean the end for Gordon here. Or that could mean the end of Vuc or Fournier here. Or it could mean any combination of things. But it's obvious "decisions are coming". The only safe player is Jonathan Isaac.

This please.

Skybox · Post #40 » by **Skybox** » Fri Jan 5, 2018 9:15 pm

Skin wrote:
Weltman: The goal coming into this season was to understand what we have: how our players play together, who we felt were more dominant personalities, dominant players, where people were on their different curves because every guy is at a different point in his career and understand the journey of each one of our players and understand how that all fits together.

These are the words that mean the most to me.

I've been harping down on the bad chemistry issues on this team and this statement does 2 things for me.

1) It confirms it.

2) It gives me a big sigh of relief to know that we have a FO that understands the importance player dynamics means in terms of rebuilding.

We have good players. They just don't fit together and as painfully obvious as that is, sometimes you don't know if the FO gets it. This time they do! It's refreshing.

Scary thing is they could make decisions on it in a variety of ways. If they charge for the playoffs again, maybe they do what Henny did in trading Dipo for a vet like Ibaka and build around Vuc and Fournier. That could mean the end for Gordon here. Or that could mean the end of Vuc or Fournier here. Or it could mean any combination of things. But it's obvious "decisions are coming". The only safe player is Jonathan Isaac.

Yep. Good analysis...The Magic are actually pretty good on paper, they just suck on hardwood...Easy to dump that on the coach but the new FO guys inspire a lot of confidence in their ability to analyze the team and make moves, even if they hurt to look at at first. Sometimes, addition by subtraction really works. In the workplace, one crappy attitude/presence can drag down a whole group or department. That's why guys look great in a new environment and everybody slams the guy that traded him when it wouldn't have happened if he stayed. Or how about Denver trading their all-star" to NY for a bunch of pieces and then they go on a tear. In my company, I've been pleasantly surprised to see someone who I thought was mediocre really blossom when a "cloud" was removed from her workday. In Bball it goes even farther, beyond personality to skill set, etc...complementary players who "click" are so pivotal and sometimes subtle. I'm excited to see the fireworks.