Replacement thread for Head Coach: updated poll

[OrlandO]

I may be way out in left field by myself here, but I really don't want to be on our 5th coach since SVG. At least not yet. Didn't someone mention Frank has 2 years left on his deal? I'm willing to ride that out. A resigned AG, Isaac, 2018 pick and 2019 pick, add in some quality free agents, ship out Vuc and Fournier, Biz and DJ contracts off the books in 2 years.

We definitely won't be in the playoffs next season. With some roster changes, AG, Isaac '18 & '19 picks, I'd like to see if we make the playoffs in year 4 under Vogel. This roster has just been so terrible in his 2 years here and yes I know he hasn't show much as a coach in Orlando, but I really don't want to go thru coaches like the Cleveland Browns.


If we don't make the playoffs or even come close to them in year 4 with Vogel, then it's time to move on to Forcier or Stack if he is available.

Due to money owed and our standing as a bad team I'd be surprised if ownership signed off on firing him too early.. I imagine the soonest we'd see it is at some point next season if things still look sloppy. That being said my preference would be to fire him this summer if new management has a better guy in mind... they need to build the team how they see fit and that includes the coaching staff.

I get what you're saying about cycling through coaches, but Vogel is so bad it's probably more damaging to the team to keep him on than to bring in another coach. He is Jacque Vaughn level bad. The thing is, it's more than just about wins/losses and development... management has to make decisions based on their coach's style/system and the results they produce. Think Vogel didn't have a hand in bringing in Biyombo? What about the circumstances that led to us declining Mario? EP and Vogel were an awful fit for each other (to be determined if that will backfire on us). What's next... we let developing AG go because Vogel can't get him to play to his strengths in his crappy system? These next couple years might not be winning years, but they're still important years for our future... I really don't want decisions made based on Vogel's "system" or his inability to coach and manage the team.

[PennytoShaq]

We have a coach at present and I wouldn't dump him until we have a compelling replacement. The prospect of Stackhouse as our next HC doesn't really excite me. I'm not really one to defend Vogel, but landing the proper replacement is exponentially more important than getting rid of Vogel, which we can do any time we want. I would certainly be active in identifying options, but you only get to hire a coach once every few years. If you are a GM that is actually hiring them that often, then your own job is probably in jeopardy.

I'm not a big fan of hiring former players that don't have an abundance of experience. Familiarity and comfort wouldn't factor into my hiring decision at all.

Player and coach are vastly different professions. One doesn't provide the foundation for the career in the other. Stackhouse's resume is exceptionally short.

former players dont always do well, but they can succeed also. Bird, Mark Jackson (for a short time), Ainge, McHale, Phil Jackson, Doc Rivers (mixed results, no to GM), Jerry Sloan, Riley, Larry Brown.

I don't disagree. I'm not disputing that they can't, but let them cut their teeth and demonstrate their merit in a competitive environment.

Well Stackhouse has excelled in the Gleague, and has already won it. He made TOR's GLeague team into the best in the league rather fast. While it is not the NBA, it is still impressive.

I watched some of the behind the scenes shows about him and that's what impressed me. The way he runs the locker room and works hard on the X's and O's as well is a really nice balance that looks like it will translate to the NBA.

[OrlandO]

There should be an option for "other." I'm sure there are a lot of people who want Vogel gone, but aren't sold on Stackhouse either. I suppose we'll start seeing polls with more coaching options in a couple months though...

[GameOver25]

I may be way out in left field by myself here, but I really don't want to be on our 5th coach since SVG. At least not yet. Didn't someone mention Frank has 2 years left on his deal? I'm willing to ride that out. A resigned AG, Isaac, 2018 pick and 2019 pick, add in some quality free agents, ship out Vuc and Fournier, Biz and DJ contracts off the books in 2 years.

We definitely won't be in the playoffs next season. With some roster changes, AG, Isaac '18 & '19 picks, I'd like to see if we make the playoffs in year 4 under Vogel. This roster has just been so terrible in his 2 years here and yes I know he hasn't show much as a coach in Orlando, but I really don't want to go thru coaches like the Cleveland Browns.


If we don't make the playoffs or even come close to them in year 4 with Vogel, then it's time to move on to Forcier or Stack if he is available.

I hear you, but if we're looking at it from our new front office POV is the simple fact Vogel wasn't their hire to begin with, he was part of the old regime. Looks like Weltham, if Vogel does get canned, they are going the route to flush everything out before they got here. Seems like the only person we can't shake is Keon Weise, he's been here since 2002

[MagicMadness]

Just keep Vogel. We aren't winning any time soon, anyways.

It's a lack of talent, not so much the coach.

[drsd]

Anyone would be better at this moment. Vogel quickly worn his welcome here. Time to go, Frank.

It is critical to remember that current management is "evaluating" all hold-over assets. That includes Coach Vogel.

GM Hammond has not commitment here.


..

[drsd]

Just keep Vogel. We aren't winning any time soon, anyways.

It's a lack of talent, not so much the coach.

This is my view. But this current team is hopeless so firing the coach will not lead to any lost-sleep for me.


..

[Last Guardian]

Finally some good news. I have no idea about Stackhouse but Vogel is just plain terrible. But it would be a start.

[PrimeThyme]

Im all aboard the Forcier for head coach train. Developed Kawai, helped get AG a jumper, and turned Mario into a competent NBA player. We need a head coach that puts player development at the forefront and he has shown consistently that he can do that. Sign me up.

[ChosenSavior]

Im all aboard the Forcier for head coach train. Developed Kawai, helped get AG a jumper, and turned Mario into a competent NBA player. We need a head coach that puts player development at the forefront and he has shown consistently that he can do that. Sign me up.

I'm on that train as well and have been since we brought him here. I really think he can be a great coach in the NBA.

[Dennis Reynolds]

Found this on redditˇˇ

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/which-nba-team-is-wronged-by-the-refs-the-most/

Absolutely no excuses for Vogel and the awful job he has done here.

[Nemesis21]

Found this on redditˇˇ

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/which-nba-team-is-wronged-by-the-refs-the-most/

Absolutely no excuses for Vogel and the awful job he has done here.

That a team as awful as Orlando — in contention for the top overall draft pick — has the lowest blown-call rate in the league (3.6 percent) is a relatively strong counterexample to the notion that a team needs a star to get late-game calls to go its way.


How exactly is it Vogel's fault that we don't have star? Give him all the crap you want, but our roster is so terrible. How about blaming RDV/Martins for not letting us be bad enough for a chance at that top pick, to potentially draft said star, the past 5-6 years.

[Dennis Reynolds]

Found this on redditˇˇ

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/which-nba-team-is-wronged-by-the-refs-the-most/

Absolutely no excuses for Vogel and the awful job he has done here.

That a team as awful as Orlando — in contention for the top overall draft pick — has the lowest blown-call rate in the league (3.6 percent) is a relatively strong counterexample to the notion that a team needs a star to get late-game calls to go its way.


How exactly is it Vogel's fault that we don't have star? Give him all the crap you want, but our roster is so terrible. How about blaming RDV/Martins for not letting us be bad enough for a chance at that top pick, to potentially draft said star, the past 5-6 years.

You missed the point. Out of all the teams in the league we have gotten screwed the least by the refs. That is why the author of that piece said that you don't need to have a star to get fair officiating.

[UCFJayBird]

Just keep Vogel. We aren't winning any time soon, anyways.

It's a lack of talent, not so much the coach.

That's my take as well. There's a reason we all thought Vogel would be a great coach. And sure, he deserves some blame for our lack of success, but I think the pieces that he was given were just terrible and didn't fit together. We've gone through several HCs now with the same basic core, plus or minus a piece here, and most the players we've acquired haven't panned out like we thought they would.

I'd rather wait until we see this new FO actually blowup the roster a bit more before I throw Vogel to the wolves. Payton was a start, but I imagine we will see much bigger changes this offseason.

[Max Power]

I like Frank Vogel, he is a quality coach, but you can’t turn **** into gold, so having that expectation of Frank after the Oladipo trade was unrealistic. I personally would rather keep him, but Frank being a hold over from the previous GM doesn’t usually bode well when new bosses come in.

If we do replace him, Jerry Stackhouse doesn’t get me excited one single bit. He’s Jacque Vaughn 2.0 if you ask me. I’d much rather give a long time assistant a chance or get a superstar coach to come in. I still to this day endorse Bill Laimbeer as a guy I think would yield some good results here.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[npiper17]

Found this on redditˇˇ

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/which-nba-team-is-wronged-by-the-refs-the-most/

Absolutely no excuses for Vogel and the awful job he has done here.

Is this not just a case of the Magic not being within three points in the last two mins of a game too often?

[PrinceV]

I credit Stackhouse for developing the RAPS bench. All of the RAPs 2nd unit played under Stackhouse. Great choice if this is the case.

[FrenchMagic]

I'm not sure if it's a goof idea Stackhouse.

It's not possible to go with a excellent ncaa coach like Brad Stevens ?
For example Tony Bennett ?

[Furinkazan]

I want Vogel gone but I won’t vote,You should have add more options Like Fizzdale and throw I some other names or at least put OTHER option.

[RookieStar]

I vote to keep Vogel. I wann see him coach with better players. C'mon guys, even Pop couldn't coach our group of guys to the playoffs. We need to change some personnel first, see what the coach could do with better talent or fit and decide from there. Also, I'm with the poster that said something like " tired of seeing a new coach every 2 years " That's a bad rep our organization will get if we keep doing that.