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Gamethread: Magic vs Raptors 03/20

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Re: Gamethread: Magic vs Raptors 03/20 

Post#181 » by pepe1991 » Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:02 pm

PrimeShaq wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
PrimeShaq wrote:Pepe, on a playoff team no Isaac is not a Sf today. But on a rebuilding bottom feeding team like ours, I think It could be worth it to develop him at the SF the next couple years. Though the numbers don't show it, his skill set offensively gives us more to work with and develop than AG's did coming out of college. He's not going to be a game changer offensively the first couple years at SF but as long as he can start to consistently hit the three ball as he's shown he can do in stretches this season and consistently in college I think he can work there for us with Evan, AG, and an offensive draft pick like Doncic being our main options.

The benefits of doing this I think would really show after a couple seasons of developing his game in the offseason and getting acclimated to the NBA game. I've stated from day 1 that he's raw but has a skill set that if developed could absolutely work at SF. I feel the same way about him developing at the 5 though. Either playing at the 3 or the 5 allows us to take advantage of the really intriguing defensive potential that and Isaac/AG pairing would bring. I want these two to develop next to each other and believe that they could with Isaac playing the 3 or the 5. I think in terms of the bigger immediate impact offensively it would come at the 5 but I think that either way the impact would come in the long term.


But you want to develop player into best version of himelf ,where he is still comfortable doing stuff he was doing all his life.
You can teach somebody how to shoot with their off hand, but that off hand will never feel as natural as his born shooting hand ( just stupid example in lack of words to explain what i'm trying to say) .

I actually like Isaac a lot, i just like him as big guy who at PF can switch on smaller guys and play elite defense. At PF he would not be asked to do much but catch&shoot and roll from pick&roll . Sounds like something much easier to learn than being ballhandler, passer ,slasher ,finisher ,all things that modern SF need to even be viewed as starting level SFs.

Just few years ago ( literally, 4 yeras ago ) we wanted to "slowly develop " Oladipo into PG than gave up on that year later, than we tried to develop Gordon into SF and failed at it, than we tried to develop Ibaka into 20 ppg scored -and failed at it. I'm just so damn tired of trying to "develop" players into something that they are not . Why can't we simply help them achive and live up to their full potential instad of trying to mold and develop them into something they are not?

Whole this PF debate only exists because Gordon. if Gordon doesn't exist on this roster , Isaac as PF would be no brainer and nobody would even talk about it.

This is why Isaac is a unique case. It's not as if he has been a big guy all his life and would now have to adjust to playing SF. He's is a guy that had a late growth spurt and actually spent most of his life pperimeter the perimiter as a guard. This is why he has been on record saying that he is much more comfortable playing on the perimeter and why his skillset offensively is what it is. Is he still raw? Yes. But one of the luxurys of having a 6-11 guy that spent most of his life at the guard spot is that we have the chance to mold him into what we want.

Its not a simple as saying If AG was here he would 100% be a PF longterm. In the shortterm that would probally be the case but Weltman has said many times that he is a guy we can mold into play positions 3-5 longterm and I belive that.



Isaac is not a good offensive prospect for a wing. His shot is a real question mark, and he’s not great at attacking off-the-dribble or reading the floor. Those weaknesses look completely different when you consider him as a true 4/5, but still should be evaluated.

Even as a 4/5 a bad shooting outcome would tank his value as a player. Predicting shooting is pretty much impossible, but there are reasons to believe in Isaac’s shot. Shooting 78% from the free throw line is a big deal.His comfort and frequency shooting off-the-dribble pull-ups is also a good sign. He’s probably going to be a solid 35–38% shooter from the NBA three.

He’s an unselfish ball-mover, he’s got a good first step, and as he adds strength he should be very capable of attacking off one or two-dribbles and finishing at the rim. The fact that he can also pull-up fluidly in the mid-range is a plus, and prevents defenses from playing him like a non-threat.

Isaac has also shown flashes of being able to run side pick-and-roll in a pinch. He can be a bit robotic with his reads at times, which caps his upside as a creator, but he is perfectly able to execute weak-side action for an NBA team.

It is crucial to evaluating Isaac’s offense to understand that he will (hopefully) be playing power forward or center. As a wing, Isaac would profile as a below-average, but not terrible, offensive prospect. As a big guy, if his shot doesn’t fail him he is a versatile floor spacer and finisher who can attack closeouts and keep the offense moving.


That's from article from last year how he is best big man prospect from 2017 draft, i don't think anything really changed in my view about him. This article just reminded me how i was not only one who said it, lot of experts did.
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Re: Gamethread: Magic vs Raptors 03/20 

Post#182 » by RookieStar » Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:03 pm

Shady Franchise wrote:
RookieStar wrote:
fendilim wrote:bamba and isaac may be boring to watch because our game plan will be based on defense primarily. but i think they are so freakishly athletic that it will be a potent combination.


Its not boring foe me. Bamba and Isaac will be a defensive nightmare for any teams we face. However, i would prefer Bagley cuz he is a unique scoring threat. Barring that, Ayton and Bamba ate next.


I'm with you Star. Looks like we are in the minority though. If we miss out on Doncic, I want Bagley in the 2-4 range. I do like Bamba, but we need an offensive threat more than ever. Why can't we play Isaac-Gordon-Bagley position-less ball? Bagley can guard the 4/5, Gordon can guard anywhere from the 3-5, and Isaac can pretty much guard all 5 positions.

DJ/Mack/SRP
Fournier/Ross
Isaac/Simmons
Gordon/Birch
Bagley/Vuc/Biz


Yeah.. well we all have our opinions on whats best for this team. Unfortunately for us, the one who can do something about it isn't posting on message boards but instead is in the front office lol.

Yup, position-less ball is the trend nowadays. Elite shot-blocking is nice but look at GS and Cavs when they were in the Finals. No one would ever suspect Zaza or Draymond to be shot-blocking, jump-out-of-the-gym type of Centers but they rolled with it. In fact, their shot-blocking is apparently KD, a 6'11 slim PF than can jump ( ring a bell? we got our own version of a Forwards that can jump ). As long as our bigs are quick enough to rotate and stay with their man in switching PLUS a good rebounding big then our defense is good.

So for me, the scoring Big Man is a priority for us. Hence, Bagley is the pick that I want.
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Re: Gamethread: Magic vs Raptors 03/20 

Post#183 » by PennytoShaq » Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:04 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
PennytoShaq wrote:Wow, how do you take that I trashed Kuzma because I said I would prefer drafting Isaac in a redraft? I mean, that is the lamest example I have ever seen. Is that your big finish here?

You are just embarrassing yourself at this point. I mean this is flat out awful. I spoke about DRAFTING a guy at age 22 in the lottery versus developing a young guy TO the age of 22 and you still can't t wrap your head around that simple concept.

The issue here is clear. You don't really understand what you are reading, yet you are such a blowhard that you want to argue about it anyway. I get it now, and I feel sorry for you.

And no, I don't want to PM. The last thing I need is more of your nonsense in my inbox.


Issuse here is clear, you say one thing, back it off ,change argument , ignore parts where you are wrong, and change narrative of parts you can manipulate to argue about it.

You are litrally guy who debated and questioned basketball reference data because " you saw he was SF at college " :banghead:



Issue is indeed clear - As I illustrated above, you can't understand half the stuff you are arguing.

No wonder you are always banging your head against the wall in frustration. It must suck, seriously.

Maybe things will get better, but based on your ridiculously flawed last sentence and seemingly unhealthy obsession with arguing what position a player is listed as- you have a long road ahead. Godspeed.
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Re: Gamethread: Magic vs Raptors 03/20 

Post#184 » by pepe1991 » Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:16 pm

PennytoShaq wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
PennytoShaq wrote:Wow, how do you take that I trashed Kuzma because I said I would prefer drafting Isaac in a redraft? I mean, that is the lamest example I have ever seen. Is that your big finish here?

You are just embarrassing yourself at this point. I mean this is flat out awful. I spoke about DRAFTING a guy at age 22 in the lottery versus developing a young guy TO the age of 22 and you still can't t wrap your head around that simple concept.

The issue here is clear. You don't really understand what you are reading, yet you are such a blowhard that you want to argue about it anyway. I get it now, and I feel sorry for you.

And no, I don't want to PM. The last thing I need is more of your nonsense in my inbox.


Issuse here is clear, you say one thing, back it off ,change argument , ignore parts where you are wrong, and change narrative of parts you can manipulate to argue about it.

You are litrally guy who debated and questioned basketball reference data because " you saw he was SF at college " :banghead:



Issue is indeed clear - As I illustrated above, you can't understand half the stuff you are arguing.

No wonder you are always banging your head against the wall in frustration. It must suck, seriously.

Maybe things will get better, but based on your ridiculously flawed last sentence and seemingly unhealthy obsession with arguing what position a player is listed as- you have a long road ahead. Godspeed.


You asked is that my grand finale, nah, this is, epic scouting of PennyToShaq


o is overrated as a defender. He was bad for us last year. In fact our defense was pretty terrible. Teams penetrated our guards at will with simple screens that he never fought over.

This year our defense is terrible too and everyone is quick to call out Fournier for the same stuff.

Oladipo is a better defender than Ross, but not by so much that it balances out that Ross does what we need - which is shoot. He is a historically better 3 point shooter than Oladipo is. It's not slight either. It's a large difference. This is why I believe many people think Ross can be a better SG than Oladipo for us. The question is will he become consistent with starters minutes.

Let's just be honest - does anyone think OKC would even be relevant without Westbrook? That guy is an absolute machine. If you don't believe me, just look at Oladipo's shooting stats with him on the floor and then with him off.



Snoopy ingaged into debate calling you crazy and you reply with

Not sure where that "proof" is since I have never been a fan of Oladipos and wanted him traded long before he actually was. I think the burden falls on you insinuating that Ross is a scrub. Just shows how poor you are at evaluating talent, or just communicating in general.


Snoopy makes semi- joke how he is better at evaluating talent than Magic last two Gms telling how Oladipo is clearly better talent and you come with :
Well it makes you delusional. I can't speak for them though.


304 » by PennytoShaq » Tue Mar 7, 2017 1:30 am

Watching Ross tonight, there is just no way I can see how Oladipo is significantly better than him. It's actually funny that anyone would think that. He has already had 2 steals in one quarter. His defense is actually a little better than I expected, although he does get torched now and then on backdoors.




Preach on man, for more unitential comedy segments rest of the "Ross is better than Oladipo" by our scouting genious PtS click down below

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1527394&hilit=oladipo+ross+terrence+ross&start=320

And last gem from history of your epic scouting
Yes, this is more due to Elf breaking out than anything. Ross had the ball in his hands when he first got here and was doing work, but now Elf has the ball a lot more often. A lot of this is the team is still figuring out how to play together. It takes more time than many people realize.


Rememer, you are guy who gave me ***t about Payton for 3 months, than in middle of this season you turned heel on him and acted like you were not a guy who was busting my a** about him during whole summer. Is he still breaking up or he is waiting "better than Oladipo" to come back from injury?
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Re: Gamethread: Magic vs Raptors 03/20 

Post#185 » by PennytoShaq » Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:31 pm

Hang on. We were talking about Isaac and then you moved the argument to Kuzma then Payton and now it's Ross? It is hard to keep with you spinning everything around while grasping for straws here.

LOL - how much time you spent digging up these posts is amazing. It's tragic really. And yes Oladipo DID become better than Ross. I have acknowledged that many times.

But what did I actually say again, over a year ago?

"It's not slight either. It's a large difference. This is why I believe many people think Ross can be a better SG than Oladipo for us. The question is will he become consistent with starters minutes."

We had just acquired Ross. He had been doing well. And then my last sentence was rather accurate. He simply can not play consistently.Again, I like to give guys a chance before trashing them like you enjoy doing. I liked Ross's chances to get a consistent 3ball but he never could do it.

So again, you had to dig back over a year to find something because you are so desperate to keep this going. You need to "win" so badly on the internet that you go from topic to topic and hope to find something that you can actually attack. and the best part is that you can not see how you have essentially proved everything I have been saying about you to be right.

You are basically spending all this time and effort only to cement my opinion of you as a guy who has to change arguments multiple times, HAS to find something to be right about for his own validation and self-worth, and will waste tons of time searching someone elses posts from over a year ago to try and salavage some form of "win". On top of that you attempt to recruit an ally in Snoopy now, since I guess this got too overwhelming for you on your own.

Thanks for basically proving everything I said about you, and for doing it on cue. That's seriously fine work. You would make a good assistant at...I don't know..something? It's definitely not assessment of players. You just compared Bagley to Okafor because... Duke. My god, you have no clue about college hoops at all, do you? Oh and please tell us your thoughts on Josh Jackson again. I don't care about you enough to weed through all your babble, but I am sure that would be a fun read now for us.
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Re: Gamethread: Magic vs Raptors 03/20 

Post#186 » by fendilim » Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:09 am

RookieStar wrote:
Shady Franchise wrote:
RookieStar wrote:
Its not boring foe me. Bamba and Isaac will be a defensive nightmare for any teams we face. However, i would prefer Bagley cuz he is a unique scoring threat. Barring that, Ayton and Bamba ate next.


I'm with you Star. Looks like we are in the minority though. If we miss out on Doncic, I want Bagley in the 2-4 range. I do like Bamba, but we need an offensive threat more than ever. Why can't we play Isaac-Gordon-Bagley position-less ball? Bagley can guard the 4/5, Gordon can guard anywhere from the 3-5, and Isaac can pretty much guard all 5 positions.

DJ/Mack/SRP
Fournier/Ross
Isaac/Simmons
Gordon/Birch
Bagley/Vuc/Biz


Yeah.. well we all have our opinions on whats best for this team. Unfortunately for us, the one who can do something about it isn't posting on message boards but instead is in the front office lol.

Yup, position-less ball is the trend nowadays. Elite shot-blocking is nice but look at GS and Cavs when they were in the Finals. No one would ever suspect Zaza or Draymond to be shot-blocking, jump-out-of-the-gym type of Centers but they rolled with it. In fact, their shot-blocking is apparently KD, a 6'11 slim PF than can jump ( ring a bell? we got our own version of a Forwards that can jump ). As long as our bigs are quick enough to rotate and stay with their man in switching PLUS a good rebounding big then our defense is good.

So for me, the scoring Big Man is a priority for us. Hence, Bagley is the pick that I want.

To me, its not about positionless or what. But who is the bpa. Because the trend will move to another direction if a nonpositionless team wins the championship. Its a copycat league.
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Re: Gamethread: Magic vs Raptors 03/20 

Post#187 » by RookieStar » Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:25 am

Yeah i get that. But you know, we were the first team to have only 1 big man (DH) surrounded by all star shooters and defensive wings.. we beat LBJ, prime BIG 3 celts and etc.. yet we got defeated by a team that had 2 big men.. weird huh?

But i agree.. its BPA cor me as well.
Thing is people have different versions of BPA. For me, after Doncic.. its a slew of big men before Porter then JJJ then Young.

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