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We've got some young talent with great potential in AG, Isaac, and some decent support in guys like Simmons, Ross, DJ, even Biz (in his role-because he ain't going anywhere )...We're going to draft another potential All-Star this year. My theory is that, until we find a veteran "Alpha" who can lead and demand accountability, shows these young, talented knuckleheads what it means to put a team on their back and fight to WIN (not just get numbers), we will continue to be a farm team for other organizations. Dipo, was crystal-clear about his development into an "Alpha" this year - would not have happened in ORL, where everyone was fighting to get theirs/dysfunctional situation without a leader. Until he shadowed Russ for a year in OKC, he had no idea what it took to be a star and a winner in the NBA. We can draft undeveloped prospects every year without getting better...I would propose trading our 2019 first, OKC first, Evan, Vuc, 2nds, and other pieces to get that elusive "Alpha". He would likely be a mid-20's veteran, either disenchanted with his team or about to be the victim of a rebuild...or, he could be 2nd banana on a team with another Alpha, who could be sacrificed for more parts that fit that team....Whose out there that MAY fit that role for us (and could, realistically, be obtainable-so don't say LBJ or Simmons)...I know some of these guys are not complete superstars, but they could be better in our role

Mine are:
CJ McCollum - if Portland decides the backcourt is redundant (after a playoff fail?), they could make him available. He'd be 25ppg from day one if given the keys in ORL. Fournier could replace his complimentary scoring to Dame, and a high pick and another piece, Simmons maybe makes Portland a more dangerous team if Dame continues his near-MVP tear. To Orl, he becomes like Harden to HOU.

Kemba Walker-lead guard, fiery, scorer, would be the best guy on the team from day 1. Chip on his shoulder, etc

2nd Tier:

Marcus Smart -NOT the same class as the others, but demanding, fierce competitor and defender, intangible guy. Would be great next to a young facilitator like Doncic or Trae. Could become available as Ainge will have Hayward back and an extra pick-may not want to pay.
Capable of occasional breakout scoring games when needed. No fear, possibly a breakthrough candidate.

Patrick Beverly - BIG chip on his shoulder, like Smart + a 3pt shot. Not sure why he'd be available, but...

Isaiah Thomas -BIGGEST chip on his shoulder in the league, lots of question marks but maybe with a limited contract, etc

Bledsoe - Wanted him when MIL got him, wouldn't be deeply in Giannis' shadow.

Brogdon - not sure of his mentality or availability but interesting, what could he do if given the keys to a young team?

Rozier - maybe Ainge has to make a choice between him and Smart? Is he a hidden gem behind Kyrie?

( now I'm really reaching )
Frank Mason - is he hidden behind Fox ready to be the next King escapee? Mature leader, big Chip on his shoulder

Dejounte Murray -is he a singular talent hidden in a system? Could he be what Fultz was supposed to be(or will be)?

Dante Exum-did he lose his spot before he was ever well enough to compete for it?

Any mature leaders with an Alpha sense coming out(maybe 2nd round surprises better suited to NBA?) Brunson, Shae...

San Antonio

What do you mean...Kawhi or Murray?

Kawhi

I think CJ is the only guy on that list I'd want or makes sense but it would be difficult to get for him for what we would prepared to give up. The only non tradable assets for CJ are Gordon, Isaac, 2018 1st round pick, they means that the best offer we could put on the table is, (in my opinion)

Orlando sends: Fournier, Vucevic, Simmons, Ross, 2018 2nd round pick, OKC 1st round pick

Portland sends: McCollum, Turner

Portland balances the backcourt with Fournier like you suggested, get another scorer in Vucevic, an alpha in Simmons, and wing defence in Simmons and Ross. The 2nd round picks are sweeteners and dumping Turners contact is also a bonus, we could also take on Harkless is needed

Portland

Lillard/Napier
Fournier/Simmons/Connaughton
Ross/Harkless/Layman
Aminu/Collins/Davis
Nurkic/Vucevic/Leonard


Orlando

Augustine/Mack
McCollum/Iwundu
Hezonja/Turner
*Gordon/Birch
*Isaac/Biyombo

*(Changable)

Portland's roster is massively ungraded and deep. We get an alpha scorer, add our 1st round pick which in this case Doncic or Young would work, give Hezonja a reason to return, and concentrate on developing a young team. Turner would also provide high level bench scorer.

The draft.

Hezonja

Draft.

T-Mac showed us that isn’t the only option but it by far is the easiest (still hard) in a small market city.

... throw all the number some of you love to but no, in the world of basketball Orlando is not a big market.

axl_c_cool wrote:I think CJ is the only guy on that list I'd want or makes sense but it would be difficult to get for him for what we would prepared to give up. The only non tradable assets for CJ are Gordon, Isaac, 2018 1st round pick, they means that the best offer we could put on the table is, (in my opinion)

Orlando sends: Fournier, Vucevic, Simmons, Ross, 2018 2nd round pick, OKC 1st round pick

Portland sends: McCollum, Turner

Portland balances the backcourt with Fournier like you suggested, get another scorer in Vucevic, an alpha in Simmons, and wing defence in Simmons and Ross. The 2nd round picks are sweeteners and dumping Turners contact is also a bonus, we could also take on Harkless is needed

Portland

Lillard/Napier
Fournier/Simmons/Connaughton
Ross/Harkless/Layman
Aminu/Collins/Davis
Nurkic/Vucevic/Leonard


Orlando

Augustine/Mack
McCollum/Iwundu
Hezonja/Turner
*Gordon/Birch
*Isaac/Biyombo

*(Changable)

Portland's roster is massively ungraded and deep. We get an alpha scorer, add our 1st round pick which in this case Doncic or Young would work, give Hezonja a reason to return, and concentrate on developing a young team. Turner would also provide high level bench scorer.

This dream of people sending their all-star caliber players for Vuc and Fournier has to stop on here lol. Would love to have CJ though.

j-ragg wrote:

axl_c_cool wrote:I think CJ is the only guy on that list I'd want or makes sense but it would be difficult to get for him for what we would prepared to give up. The only non tradable assets for CJ are Gordon, Isaac, 2018 1st round pick, they means that the best offer we could put on the table is, (in my opinion)

Orlando sends: Fournier, Vucevic, Simmons, Ross, 2018 2nd round pick, OKC 1st round pick

Portland sends: McCollum, Turner

Portland balances the backcourt with Fournier like you suggested, get another scorer in Vucevic, an alpha in Simmons, and wing defence in Simmons and Ross. The 2nd round picks are sweeteners and dumping Turners contact is also a bonus, we could also take on Harkless is needed

Portland

Lillard/Napier
Fournier/Simmons/Connaughton
Ross/Harkless/Layman
Aminu/Collins/Davis
Nurkic/Vucevic/Leonard


Orlando

Augustine/Mack
McCollum/Iwundu
Hezonja/Turner
*Gordon/Birch
*Isaac/Biyombo

*(Changable)

Portland's roster is massively ungraded and deep. We get an alpha scorer, add our 1st round pick which in this case Doncic or Young would work, give Hezonja a reason to return, and concentrate on developing a young team. Turner would also provide high level bench scorer.

This dream of people sending their all-star caliber players for Vuc and Fournier has to stop on here lol. Would love to have CJ though.

Thats where the 1st comes in, imo...I think it MAY be possible on a team has one or more other All-Stars and the fit is hitting a ceiling. Especially if the star coming back has a glaring weakness (defense, contract, etc)...Why wouldn't Fournier average 20+ playing off of Dame? then add 2019 first and a solid piece like Simms, etc...not crazy

The draft.

MagicMatic wrote:The draft.

My point is, that's unlikely these days...great talent, but children as of late. Doncic and Trae Young may be exceptions. Fingers crossed but it's hard for an 18 yr old to lead other, slightly older child stars unless said 18 year old is a very very exceptional kid (Like LBJ, Simmons, not many others in recent history). Last 15 years (back to LBJ) maybe 5 of the top overall picks have that, and not always right out of the gate. No clear Alphas in this draft, imo...to be clear, I don't just mean great players, but leaders.

Anyway, my wishful point of this thread was...WHO MIGHT BE OUT THERE VIA TRADE? COULD THE MAGIC TURN THEIR RECENT FO HISTORY AROUND BY FINDING A GUY WHO IS BETTER HERE THAN HE WAS "THERE" (instead of the opposite)?

Skybox wrote:

j-ragg wrote:

axl_c_cool wrote:I think CJ is the only guy on that list I'd want or makes sense but it would be difficult to get for him for what we would prepared to give up. The only non tradable assets for CJ are Gordon, Isaac, 2018 1st round pick, they means that the best offer we could put on the table is, (in my opinion)

Orlando sends: Fournier, Vucevic, Simmons, Ross, 2018 2nd round pick, OKC 1st round pick

Portland sends: McCollum, Turner

Portland balances the backcourt with Fournier like you suggested, get another scorer in Vucevic, an alpha in Simmons, and wing defence in Simmons and Ross. The 2nd round picks are sweeteners and dumping Turners contact is also a bonus, we could also take on Harkless is needed

Portland

Lillard/Napier
Fournier/Simmons/Connaughton
Ross/Harkless/Layman
Aminu/Collins/Davis
Nurkic/Vucevic/Leonard


Orlando

Augustine/Mack
McCollum/Iwundu
Hezonja/Turner
*Gordon/Birch
*Isaac/Biyombo

*(Changable)

Portland's roster is massively ungraded and deep. We get an alpha scorer, add our 1st round pick which in this case Doncic or Young would work, give Hezonja a reason to return, and concentrate on developing a young team. Turner would also provide high level bench scorer.

This dream of people sending their all-star caliber players for Vuc and Fournier has to stop on here lol. Would love to have CJ though.

Thats where the 1st comes in, imo...I think it MAY be possible on a team has one or more other All-Stars and the fit is hitting a ceiling. Especially if the star coming back has a glaring weakness (defense, contract, etc)...Why wouldn't Fournier average 20+ playing off of Dame? then add 2019 first and a solid piece like Simms, etc...not crazy

I don't doubt Fournier could average 20 ppg off of Lillard, but he doesn't right now. GMs don't evaluate trades based on guys future value, Fournier just isn't all that valuable right now. Vuc has probably neutral value and Fournier is slightly positive. I don't think they'd do it unless there was a 2019 unprotected pick, in which case I don't think we would. Everyone wants (potential) stars in this league, they're tough to get.

Skybox wrote:

MagicMatic wrote:The draft.

My point is, that's unlikely these days...great talent, but children as of late. Doncic and Trae Young may be exceptions. Fingers crossed but it's hard for an 18 yr old to lead other, slightly older child stars unless said 18 year old is a very very exceptional kid (Like LBJ, Simmons, not many others in recent history). Last 15 years (back to LBJ) maybe 5 of the top overall picks have that, and not always right out of the gate. No clear Alphas in this draft, imo...to be clear, I don't just mean great players, but leaders.

Anyway, my wishful point of this thread was...WHO MIGHT BE OUT THERE VIA TRADE? COULD THE MAGIC TURN THEIR RECENT FO HISTORY AROUND BY FINDING A GUY WHO IS BETTER HERE THAN HE WAS "THERE" (instead of the opposite)?

There are many more issues with trading for a potential star/ alpha, rather than just drafted and retaining one.

First, there has to be a somewhat equal trade to even land said player. Other than our pick and other youth, Orlando doesn’t have enough talent for that to leave them with a great roster after the fact. Long story short, the asking price is too high for what Orlando can afford currently.

Secondly, you have to retain the player after the fact. OKC will experience this all summer when they have to convince PG13 to stay despite coming up short again.

The best way of finding talent as a bottom feeder is to either -

A) Acquire lesser known talent hidden on teams that aren’t showcasing them. (I like Dejounte Murray and Tyus Jones actually as examples. Jamal Murray might be off the table now after this season.) Try to trade for them in hopes they can make the jump IT did before he went to Boston. It’s mostly those fringe players that have potential, are still accessible, and not completely off the table in trade talks because of their exposure to the game.

B) The draft. The best way of acquiring talent (an alpha, etc) for a basement dweller like the Magic. It might take longer, but it’s the best way to retain players and build around their game individually. When you have a talent devoid roster and aren’t remotely appealing to free agents it’s the best way to cultivate talent.

Skybox wrote:

MagicMatic wrote:The draft.

My point is, that's unlikely these days...great talent, but children as of late. Doncic and Trae Young may be exceptions. Fingers crossed but it's hard for an 18 yr old to lead other, slightly older child stars unless said 18 year old is a very very exceptional kid (Like LBJ, Simmons, not many others in recent history). Last 15 years (back to LBJ) maybe 5 of the top overall picks have that, and not always right out of the gate. No clear Alphas in this draft, imo...to be clear, I don't just mean great players, but leaders.

Anyway, my wishful point of this thread was...WHO MIGHT BE OUT THERE VIA TRADE? COULD THE MAGIC TURN THEIR RECENT FO HISTORY AROUND BY FINDING A GUY WHO IS BETTER HERE THAN HE WAS "THERE" (instead of the opposite)?

A couple of players that might fit the bill that are young and possibly available are Jabari Parker (If he can stay healthy), Nerlens Noel, Tyus Jones, Dejounte Murray, and Dante exum(If he can stay healthy). Now as far as stars or alphas being available I’d say possibly Paul George, CJ McCollum, Kemba walker, Kevin Love (If lebron leaves), and Marc Gasol. A lot of these depend on how their current teams do in the post season. Which I don’t feel should be to big of a problem seeing Golden state and Houston will be the most likely champ out of the west and Cleveland or Boston out of the east.


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j-ragg wrote:

axl_c_cool wrote:I think CJ is the only guy on that list I'd want or makes sense but it would be difficult to get for him for what we would prepared to give up. The only non tradable assets for CJ are Gordon, Isaac, 2018 1st round pick, they means that the best offer we could put on the table is, (in my opinion)

Orlando sends: Fournier, Vucevic, Simmons, Ross, 2018 2nd round pick, OKC 1st round pick

Portland sends: McCollum, Turner

Portland balances the backcourt with Fournier like you suggested, get another scorer in Vucevic, an alpha in Simmons, and wing defence in Simmons and Ross. The 2nd round picks are sweeteners and dumping Turners contact is also a bonus, we could also take on Harkless is needed

Portland

Lillard/Napier
Fournier/Simmons/Connaughton
Ross/Harkless/Layman
Aminu/Collins/Davis
Nurkic/Vucevic/Leonard


Orlando

Augustine/Mack
McCollum/Iwundu
Hezonja/Turner
*Gordon/Birch
*Isaac/Biyombo

*(Changable)

Portland's roster is massively ungraded and deep. We get an alpha scorer, add our 1st round pick which in this case Doncic or Young would work, give Hezonja a reason to return, and concentrate on developing a young team. Turner would also provide high level bench scorer.

This dream of people sending their all-star caliber players for Vuc and Fournier has to stop on here lol. Would love to have CJ though.

It’s crazy lol posters have been posting these type of trades for a couple of years now

we're not losing because we don't have an alpha. we're losing because we're bad.

It’s not 2k where you can just bundle mediocre players on a bad team with filler for stars, the Magic have to trust the process, get lucky and draft their next superstar. After that it’s a matter of hoping they stay and don’t become LA’s next superstar.

Rockstar

For the record, the trade proposals for CJ and/or Kemba that I made INCLUDED the 2019 first. I understand that Evan and/or Vuc don't get you much on their own.