Anti-Tankers: Those Sixers are just losers, huh?

[Nemesis21]

Hennigan really screwed us over. Probably worst GM in franchise history

Martins worst PBO in franchise history.

[Jameerthefear]

Hennigan really screwed us over. Probably worst GM in franchise history

Martins worst PBO in franchise history.

No doubt. They both suck

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[Nemesis21]

Hennigan really screwed us over. Probably worst GM in franchise history

Martins worst PBO in franchise history.

No doubt. They both suck

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Nah, just Martins.

[Jameerthefear]

Martins worst PBO in franchise history.

No doubt. They both suck

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Nah, just Martins.

Hennigan is just as bad. He **** over this team for a long time

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[Nemesis21]

No doubt. They both suck

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Nah, just Martins.

Hennigan is just as bad. He **** over this team for a long time

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No he didn't. At least he had a plan and vision, before upper management screwed it up.

[Optimus_Steel]

To be fair, Orlando is full of people from other birthplaces.

Indeed my first birth certificate read I was born in Winter Park, as that is how the Navy classified the trailer par of a hotel that was on the training center in the early 70s. But then when the land stopped being federal and went to Florida, the state reclassified my birth set as "Orlando" and reissued me a new birth place on a new birth certificate.


So: some of us weren't from Orlando, but are now!


..

Lol first time I heard someone's birthplace change. That's like a Back To The Future situation.

[Jameerthefear]

Nah, just Martins.

Hennigan is just as bad. He **** over this team for a long time

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No he didn't. At least he had a plan and vision, before upper management screwed it up.

I don't really care to argue it with you. You can ride his jock all you want but the results speak for themselves

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[npiper17]

Nah, just Martins.

Hennigan is just as bad. He **** over this team for a long time

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No he didn't. At least he had a plan and vision, before upper management screwed it up.

You can’t absolve Rob of all blame. Did Alex Martins tell him to allow an agent to take a photo in front of a whiteboard full of offseason targets and then post it on twitter?

[Driguez]

Why would they?

I can think back to the Dwight days and fans would routinely root for other teams. We have a horrible "fan base" once and if we get back to relevance things should equal out with those who are Magic fans. I agree with you, I just have a bone to pick with people cheering for other teams, maybe slightly OT.

To be fair, Orlando is full of people from other birthplaces. I grew up in NY and nobody would ask a new acquaintance "Where you from?" up there. People move here with a favorite team already. Years of success make it easy to adopt the local team. Understandably, we are gaining NO new fans over these last few years.

People cheering for whomever is a favorite has nothing to do where they're from. Just fairweather fans who jump ship as soon as a stacked team is formed. And I highly doubt we have a vast majority of implants from mostly every team that plays here besides NY. Its disheartening to me and I can't imagine how the players feel about it. Things need to change and have a winning culture Orlando can be proud of and go out and support!

[npiper17]

I can think back to the Dwight days and fans would routinely root for other teams. We have a horrible "fan base" once and if we get back to relevance things should equal out with those who are Magic fans. I agree with you, I just have a bone to pick with people cheering for other teams, maybe slightly OT.

To be fair, Orlando is full of people from other birthplaces. I grew up in NY and nobody would ask a new acquaintance "Where you from?" up there. People move here with a favorite team already. Years of success make it easy to adopt the local team. Understandably, we are gaining NO new fans over these last few years.

People cheering for whomever is a favorite has nothing to do where they're from. Just fairweather fans who jump ship as soon as a stacked team is formed. And I highly doubt we have a vast majority of implants from mostly every team that plays here besides NY. Its disheartening to me and I can't imagine how the players feel about it. Things need to change and have a winning culture Orlando can be proud of and go out and support!

Personally I think the Magic have a pretty strong fan base especially when compared to others around the league.

Take Houston for example: I don’t care what attendance figures they release; I watch a decent amount of Rockets games and there are an awful lot of empty seats / poor atmosphere for a team that is the number 1 seed in the West.

Miami is another one. Hordes of empty seats despite being a playoff team since the Big 3 disbanded. They also have to live with the embarrassment of begging to be let back into the arena during a Finals game.

I’m not saying all is perfect in Orlando but I think, considering where our team is, the attendances are pretty good. If we ever get good again those attendances will grow and there’ll be more Magic fans than opposition fans.

[Skybox]

I can think back to the Dwight days and fans would routinely root for other teams. We have a horrible "fan base" once and if we get back to relevance things should equal out with those who are Magic fans. I agree with you, I just have a bone to pick with people cheering for other teams, maybe slightly OT.

To be fair, Orlando is full of people from other birthplaces. I grew up in NY and nobody would ask a new acquaintance "Where you from?" up there. People move here with a favorite team already. Years of success make it easy to adopt the local team. Understandably, we are gaining NO new fans over these last few years.

People cheering for whomever is a favorite has nothing to do where they're from. Just fairweather fans who jump ship as soon as a stacked team is formed.

That's a truly ridiculous comment. People in Orlando are from all over....When it comes to Lebron or GSW jerseys, you've got a point-otherwise ignoring the absurdly obvious.

[drsd]

I thing tanking and being a bad team overall get lumped into the same group. We? We're just bad, sure we rested Vu, but the other injuries are legit. I wish we would have gone full blown tank. Otherwise we will always be one one pick away from a potential franchise changing pick.

I agree.

Conceptually a team should tank 2 or perhaps 3 seasons. And then develop those assets for 2 seasons. Orlando should have been a winner in 2016/17 with a #2 and #4 pick playing. That is why former-GM Hennigan put his chips on the table for a playoff run last year. Yes he favoured Oladipo over Fournier, and that (might) have been a mistake.

But the Magic has 24 wins this year because they are simply bad. Blaming the losses on injuries only means the Magic has poor depth off of the bench. There are a lot of assets on this team; more than most 20 win teams. The pieces simply do not work together.

Perhaps it was because of inconsistent PG play (Payton). Perhaps it was because all the myths of "non-positional" players and the fact players need an actual slot to develop (Gordon, Hezonja, Fournier). Indeed the only player correctly developed is Orlando's best offensive and best defensive contributor: Vučević.

Moving forward the team needs a defensive identity, with or without Coach Vogel. How to get there is why GM Hammond and President Weltman make more money than we do.


Bluntly put: the Magic must win 35+ game next year and threaten for a #8 slot in the 2019 playoffs. Their will be no fan base otherwise.

..

[drsd]

I’m not saying all is perfect in Orlando but I think, considering where our team is, the attendances are pretty good. If we ever get good again those attendances will grow and there’ll be more Magic fans than opposition fans.

It is sad how the Magic has squandered their best new-shiny Arena years with a horrible product. By the time the Magic competes, the new arena will no longer be new.

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[MagicStarwipe]

I’m not saying all is perfect in Orlando but I think, considering where our team is, the attendances are pretty good. If we ever get good again those attendances will grow and there’ll be more Magic fans than opposition fans.

It is sad how the Magic has squandered their best new-shiny Arena years with a horrible product. By the time the Magic competes, the new arena will no longer be new.

..

Plus we hosted an All-Star game without having an All-Star to compete in it. Oops.

[npiper17]

I’m not saying all is perfect in Orlando but I think, considering where our team is, the attendances are pretty good. If we ever get good again those attendances will grow and there’ll be more Magic fans than opposition fans.

It is sad how the Magic has squandered their best new-shiny Arena years with a horrible product. By the time the Magic competes, the new arena will no longer be new.

..

Plus we hosted an All-Star game without having an All-Star to compete in it. Oops.

Dwight played in that game.

I always thought it was indicative of how little he was liked by his peers that the other players had no interest in helping Dwight win MVP in his ‘home’ arena which is something they had done in the past for other ‘host’ players.

[MagicStarwipe]

It is sad how the Magic has squandered their best new-shiny Arena years with a horrible product. By the time the Magic competes, the new arena will no longer be new.

..

Plus we hosted an All-Star game without having an All-Star to compete in it. Oops.

Dwight played in that game.

I always thought it was indicative of how little he was liked by his peers that the other players had no interest in helping Dwight win MVP in his ‘home’ arena which is something they had done in the past for other ‘host’ players.

Oh yeah, that's right. I remember there were some sort of crappy circumstances surrounding it. Our All-Star representative asking to be traded at the start of the season

[the_process]

I hate tanking. I totally understand why it makes sense to do. It's obvious- nobody needs to explain that having the first pick is more valuable than the 5th. I also don't need to keep pointing out the "misses" and the ping pong pitfalls.

It's bad for the business of the NBA. It's depressing for the fan base and, I'm sure, the young players with upside already on the team, the coaches who will lose their jobs (kudos to PHI/Brown for sticking to and honoring the plan for each other). We can go round and round on this forever...Spurs never tank(Robinson was hurt and SAS got lucky in lottery), Heat never tank, Celtics never tank, Jazz haven't, Toronto fought thru tough times, etc. You can give me examples of how it works, I can counter all day with what the truly GREAT franchises in the league do. Whatever, I'm as bored with the debate as you are.

If I'm the NBA, I've GOT to kill this phenomenon. I go back to something like "there are 14 non-playoff teams in the lottery, the worst 7 get 2 ping pong balls, the best of the worst get 1 ball. Make the lottery great again!". Stop rewarding teams for not competing and making stupid decisions on players. As long as there is an upside to tanking, teams will (and should) do it.

The people on this forum are sophisticated fans. Most people aren't. The seats in the arena are not filled with people like us-maybe one section. I'd guess that most of us here watch the games on our computer, so we can spit venom on this forum real-time. The owners of the team, the arena, and the sponsors have no reason to give a s**t about what you want-you don't spend money. Period. If a team is moderately competitive, even if not contending, the average fan/consumer is involved. Lunatics (like us here) see it differently-all or nothing. 9 out of 10 people on the street don't know who Luka Doncic is. 5 out of 10 people on the street think Shaq shouldn't make 10million/year. Etc...like it or not, those uninformed people buy tickets, shirts, foam fingers for their kids, froth at the mouth trying to get on the Jumbotron for 3 seconds of fame, buy $8 beers, etc...I'm caught in the middle, I spent $28,000 on premium tix this year. I entertain clients, hardly watch the game from the 4th row, invite people who don't know who "the kid with the hair" is. Then, I go home, pore over the stats and highlights, read the forums, review draft profiles of kids from Croatia, etc as a "real fan".

Here's the big picture...when we're tanking the arena is empty and the forums are full. That's bad for the economy and not sustainable in a small market. People want to watch a team that competes, even if it doesn't contend. Even as a "real fan" I want to watch that.

For the record, the Celtics have tanked multiple times, it just never worked for them

Oh, and once Robinson got hurt that year...
Pop tanked his brains out for Duncan.

[Def Swami]

It's a very simple concept. 25% (and soon, 14%) is far from 100%, but it's the best odds available. The top pick isn't guaranteed to produce the best player, but it's the best pick in the entire draft. Just because your management doesn't select the best player doesn't change the fact that it's the best pick in the draft. The worst record produces the BEST odds at providing the BEST pick. None of it it is 100%, but it's the BEST you can get. Just like anything else you do as a team. No free agent signing is 100% to turn your team around. You just make the BEST signing you feel you can make. Sometimes correct decisions don't yield results, and sometimes incorrect decisions do yield dumb luck results. Don't hang your head at the former and don't be delusional over the latter. You can't get too hung up on results. You always just have to make the highest percentage decision you can make based on the information you have. Over time, unless you're horribly unlucky, that's going to provide the most results for you. Cherry picking examples of later picks becoming superstars or top picks being busts and all those other tired arguments don't actually mean anything. People act like it means something in terms of what your strategy should be, but it doesn't. All it means is that scouting isn't an exact science and some players overachieve while others underachieve. That's it. Past examples of overachievers and underachievers should have no impact on strategy evaluation. All of this is very simple in concept, yet a bizarre amount of people either cannot or will not understand it. It's not even an opinionated thing. Opinions don't enter into it at all. It's just the way that it is.

Agreed. It's math and gives the best possible odds and chance for landing star players and making a team good. Daryl Morey acknowledged this in a recent podcast and Sam Hinkie followed through. But it takes thoughtful owners and fanbase to execute.

[BadMofoPimp]

Martins worst PBO in franchise history.

No doubt. They both suck

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Nah, just Martins.

Henny was the one trading Dipo and a 1st for Ross, and signing Bigmack not Martins . Can't blame every bad decision Henny made on someone else.

[Rainwater]

But, we did tank for 6 straight years and are no better now than when we started tanking.

This is were I was going. You can tank but there is no guarantee it will work out. Look at the current magic team, you guys have been doing it for 6 years now and nothing. Yes, tank however there is more to it than just losing; it takes a little luck and skill. You have to tank in a good draft year, you have to have good scouting and hit on that draft pick and surround that player with good role players. Tanking has always existed and more teams have failed at it than succeeded.