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Revisiting Rob Hennigan and the Hiring of Frank Vogel

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Revisiting Rob Hennigan and the Hiring of Frank Vogel 

Post#1 » by Def Swami » Fri Apr 27, 2018 5:57 pm

Here's more evidence for how Martins and the DeVos family undercut Hennigan. It really started with the hiring of Scott Skiles; it's well-chronicled that Hennigan never wanted to hire Skiles. I never knew the same thing happened again with Vogel . He couldn't pick his coach twice. :nonono: Why even have a GM then?

At one point in the recent past, however, Martins and the team’s owners, the DeVos family, disagreed with Weltman’s predecessor about a potential coaching hire — and the Magic ultimately hired the candidate whom Martins and the DeVoses favored.

Multiple sources told the Sentinel that then-Magic General Manager Rob Hennigan and his staff within the Magic’s basketball operations department first wanted Adrian Griffin to succeed Scott Skiles as head coach after Skiles abruptly quit on May 12, 2016.

Griffin had worked as the Magic’s lead assistant coach throughout the 2015-16 season, and Hennigan wanted to promote Griffin even though Vogel was available. The Indiana Pacers had dismissed Vogel earlier in the month.

Sources said Hennigan and basketball-operations department staffers thought Griffin was ready to become a head coach, would provide Magic players some badly needed continuity and already understood the players’ strengths and weaknesses.

At some point following Skiles’ resignation, Hennigan communicated with Martins and told Martins about the preference to hire Griffin.

When Martins was asked by the Sentinel about his dialogue with Hennigan — and specifically whether Hennigan was overruled — Martins said Hennigan had freedom to hire whomever Hennigan wanted.

At the same time, however, Martins acknowledged to the Sentinel that he and the DeVos family favored hiring Vogel, who had compiled a 250-181 regular-season record and twice reached the Eastern Conference finals during a six-year tenure as the Pacers’ head coach.

Griffin, on the other hand, had never been an NBA head coach.

The Magic ultimately hired Vogel.

“Rob was not overruled,” Martins told the Sentinel. “Rob was given our opinion and was told, ‘It’s his decision to make.’ And he made that decision. He was never overruled. He was never told that he had to hire Frank. He was never given an ultimatum. He asked for both my and ownership’s opinion, and we gave it to him. But the very last thing that we said to him in that instance was, ‘This is your decision to make.’ And he made the decision.”


The Magic fired Hennigan on April 13, 2017.

Martins set one condition during his search for Hennigan’s successor. Martins said he told all candidates that Vogel would remain the Magic’s coach for the 2017-18 season.

These are those basketball decisions that should be left to people who know the game.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/orlando-magic/os-sp-orlando-magic-coaching-search-jeff-weltman-0428-story.html
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Re: Revisiting Rob Hennigan and the Hiring of Frank Vogel 

Post#2 » by Nemesis21 » Fri Apr 27, 2018 6:14 pm

But let's continue to blame Hennigan and ignore the facts. :banghead:





More proof for Badmofo......
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Re: Revisiting Rob Hennigan and the Hiring of Frank Vogel 

Post#3 » by PennytoShaq » Fri Apr 27, 2018 6:14 pm

Makes total sense, and is why I love how Weltman basically exposed Vogel's flaws while subtly showing Martins he doesn't know s--t about NBA basketball.

It took Weltman a year since he agreed to Martin's terms on Vogel, but now because of this failed season he has carte blanche to run the show as he sees fit. That is why I am not down on this FO. Additionally, it also shows why they drafted how they did. They wanted to give Vogel a fair chance - give him some vets. They did it all and it still failed. Martins now has zero leverage.
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Re: Revisiting Rob Hennigan and the Hiring of Frank Vogel 

Post#4 » by OrlChamps2030 » Fri Apr 27, 2018 6:30 pm

I remember at the time, 90% of the board loved the Vogel hire
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Re: Revisiting Rob Hennigan and the Hiring of Frank Vogel 

Post#5 » by tiderulz » Fri Apr 27, 2018 6:46 pm

Def Swami wrote:Here's more evidence for how Martins and the DeVos family undercut Hennigan. It really started with the hiring of Scott Skiles; it's well-chronicled that Hennigan never wanted to hire Skiles. I never knew the same thing happened again with Vogel . He couldn't pick his coach twice. :nonono: Why even have a GM then?

At one point in the recent past, however, Martins and the team’s owners, the DeVos family, disagreed with Weltman’s predecessor about a potential coaching hire — and the Magic ultimately hired the candidate whom Martins and the DeVoses favored.

Multiple sources told the Sentinel that then-Magic General Manager Rob Hennigan and his staff within the Magic’s basketball operations department first wanted Adrian Griffin to succeed Scott Skiles as head coach after Skiles abruptly quit on May 12, 2016.

Griffin had worked as the Magic’s lead assistant coach throughout the 2015-16 season, and Hennigan wanted to promote Griffin even though Vogel was available. The Indiana Pacers had dismissed Vogel earlier in the month.

Sources said Hennigan and basketball-operations department staffers thought Griffin was ready to become a head coach, would provide Magic players some badly needed continuity and already understood the players’ strengths and weaknesses.

At some point following Skiles’ resignation, Hennigan communicated with Martins and told Martins about the preference to hire Griffin.

When Martins was asked by the Sentinel about his dialogue with Hennigan — and specifically whether Hennigan was overruled — Martins said Hennigan had freedom to hire whomever Hennigan wanted.

At the same time, however, Martins acknowledged to the Sentinel that he and the DeVos family favored hiring Vogel, who had compiled a 250-181 regular-season record and twice reached the Eastern Conference finals during a six-year tenure as the Pacers’ head coach.

Griffin, on the other hand, had never been an NBA head coach.

The Magic ultimately hired Vogel.

“Rob was not overruled,” Martins told the Sentinel. “Rob was given our opinion and was told, ‘It’s his decision to make.’ And he made that decision. He was never overruled. He was never told that he had to hire Frank. He was never given an ultimatum. He asked for both my and ownership’s opinion, and we gave it to him. But the very last thing that we said to him in that instance was, ‘This is your decision to make.’ And he made the decision.”


The Magic fired Hennigan on April 13, 2017.

Martins set one condition during his search for Hennigan’s successor. Martins said he told all candidates that Vogel would remain the Magic’s coach for the 2017-18 season.

These are those basketball decisions that should be left to people who know the game.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/orlando-magic/os-sp-orlando-magic-coaching-search-jeff-weltman-0428-story.html


i can see why they would require Vogel to be there for the season after Hennigan was fired. Unless Weltman was going to give up the $5.5mil for the pay, and not have the 3rd coach in 3 years, providing at least some continuity.
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Re: Revisiting Rob Hennigan and the Hiring of Frank Vogel 

Post#6 » by tiderulz » Fri Apr 27, 2018 6:47 pm

OrlChamps2030 wrote:I remember at the time, 90% of the board loved the Vogel hire

i was one. I thought it could work. He did wonders with Hibbert, thought he could improve Vuc just a little
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Re: Revisiting Rob Hennigan and the Hiring of Frank Vogel 

Post#7 » by PrimeThyme » Fri Apr 27, 2018 6:58 pm

The Vogel hire was never the issue. It was the Skiles hiring that clearly showed ownership overruled Hennigan and it led to his downfall. The Skiles hire single-handedly ruined this rebuild.
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Re: Revisiting Rob Hennigan and the Hiring of Frank Vogel 

Post#8 » by Skybox » Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:13 pm

PrimeShaq wrote:The Vogel hire was never the issue. It was the Skiles hiring that clearly showed ownership overruled Hennigan and it led to his downfall. The Skiles hire single handily ruined this rebuild.


Exactly...and I am NOT a Martins/Devos defender by any means but nobody talks about how ownership apparently backed Hennigan when Skiles wanted to dump Elfrid. (Whether Skiles was right is not the point)...Skiles supposedly bailed over Elf (?)
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Re: Revisiting Rob Hennigan and the Hiring of Frank Vogel 

Post#9 » by VFX » Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:21 pm

Def Swami wrote: Why even have a GM then?



So people can make huge decisions without having to own up to any of the consequences should it backfire.
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Re: Revisiting Rob Hennigan and the Hiring of Frank Vogel 

Post#10 » by Skybox » Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:23 pm

My take is Hennigan was given a chance to be wonder boy...he tried to build slowly but, allegedly, ran out of time and got a push...so he swung for the fences with moves that didn't work out. He tried and failed. On paper, they weren't that ridiculous at the time (except Biz-I still can't fathom what his OTHER offers were) but didn't work out. Howard forced his hand-tough position to start from. Vuc looked like an All-Star for a few years. Not sure why Ibaka was great, then absolutely sucked, and is pretty great again. Vic was a fail in Orl-2nd pick in a weak draft-great guy, was given a chance for a few years, didn't have anyone to emulate or learn from, developed later in Westbrook's shadow. Hennigan got Fournier for Afflalo (I believe)...sometimes things don't work out on hardwood like they do on paper...Having 12 coaches in a year certainly can't be ideal from a "player development" perspective.

Henny tried and failed and deserved to lose his spot but wasn't completely insane.
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Re: Revisiting Rob Hennigan and the Hiring of Frank Vogel 

Post#11 » by PennytoShaq » Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:30 pm

PrimeShaq wrote:The Vogel hire was never the issue. It was the Skiles hiring that clearly showed ownership overruled Hennigan and it led to his downfall. The Skiles hire single handily ruined this rebuild.


Exactly, I don't know why people want to bring up that the board was happy to have Vogel here. He was the best coaching candidate out there at the time.

The things that happened after are what killed us. Hennigan abandoned his small ball ideas and let Vogel get his guys. Ibaka as a PF and Gordon at SF. That's Frank Vogel 101 stuff.

I thought Ibaka would be our Center and AG our PF. It made sense to me. But that's not what happened, and by that point Vogel had promised playoffs and the team started off the season looking absolutely awful.
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Re: Revisiting Rob Hennigan and the Hiring of Frank Vogel 

Post#12 » by MasterGMer » Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:47 pm

wow, first time knowing this
Hope same mistake won't happen again.
Magic is going to piss the community off if we keep losing.
NBA is trying to fix tanking. So what is next?
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Re: Revisiting Rob Hennigan and the Hiring of Frank Vogel 

Post#13 » by Audi » Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:21 pm

Ah - gotta love the ol’ management tells you what they think is best but also tells you “do what you think is best.”

Honestly makes me feel a little bad for Rob. Makes you wonder just how many moves were panic moves and how many where of his own “organic” design.
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Re: Revisiting Rob Hennigan and the Hiring of Frank Vogel 

Post#14 » by OrlandO » Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:26 pm

He asked for both my and ownership’s opinion, and we gave it to him. But the very last thing that we said to him in that instance was, ‘This is your decision to make.’ And he made the decision.”

Typical Hennigan if you ask me. If it wasn't scout related he wasn't confident enough to make his own decisions... valued the opinions of those around him way too much. Should have been fired even earlier if he couldn't handle GM duties.
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Re: Revisiting Rob Hennigan and the Hiring of Frank Vogel 

Post#15 » by npiper17 » Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:30 pm

Surely this article shows that Hennigan DID have authority to make the coaching hire of Vogel. He asked ownership for their opinion and he changed his mind from Griffin to Vogel. I don’t see what the issue is with that.
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Re: Revisiting Rob Hennigan and the Hiring of Frank Vogel 

Post#16 » by Furinkazan » Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:03 pm

proves nothing
as Martins said he was never overruled
Its not my fault he was shittng his pants in fear of Martins and ownership...as times proved he dig his grave doing as they wanted anyway
If he had any backbone he would stand behind his decisions
fcuk RH
and
fcuk Martins as well
thats all I want to say at this point
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Re: Revisiting Rob Hennigan and the Hiring of Frank Vogel 

Post#17 » by MagicFan4Lyfe » Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:10 pm

~Snoopy~ wrote:proves nothing
as Martins said he was never overruled
Its not my fault he was **** his pants in fear of Martins and ownership...as times proved he dig his grave doing as they wanted anyway
If he had any backbone he would stand behind his decisions
fcuk RH
and
fcuk Martins as well
thats all I want to say at this point


This is exactly my criticisms of Henny. Ok Martins and RDV wanted to stick their noses in everything. Then why did Henny cave in? And the rookie GM and age thing is no excuse! You’re the damn GM of a NBA franchise. If you lack confidence and get scared then you should NOT be running a team
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Re: Revisiting Rob Hennigan and the Hiring of Frank Vogel 

Post#18 » by j-ragg » Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:25 pm

GortatExpress wrote:
~Snoopy~ wrote:proves nothing
as Martins said he was never overruled
Its not my fault he was **** his pants in fear of Martins and ownership...as times proved he dig his grave doing as they wanted anyway
If he had any backbone he would stand behind his decisions
fcuk RH
and
fcuk Martins as well
thats all I want to say at this point


This is exactly my criticisms of Henny. Ok Martins and RDV wanted to stick their noses in everything. Then why did Henny cave in? And the rookie GM and age thing is no excuse! You’re the damn GM of a NBA franchise. If you lack confidence and get scared then you should NOT be running a team

Have you ever seen the video of Vivek running around sort of wondering or suggesting they should draft Stauskas in that Ringer video a few years ago?
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Re: Revisiting Rob Hennigan and the Hiring of Frank Vogel 

Post#19 » by MagicFan4Lyfe » Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:08 pm

j-ragg wrote:
GortatExpress wrote:
~Snoopy~ wrote:proves nothing
as Martins said he was never overruled
Its not my fault he was **** his pants in fear of Martins and ownership...as times proved he dig his grave doing as they wanted anyway
If he had any backbone he would stand behind his decisions
fcuk RH
and
fcuk Martins as well
thats all I want to say at this point


This is exactly my criticisms of Henny. Ok Martins and RDV wanted to stick their noses in everything. Then why did Henny cave in? And the rookie GM and age thing is no excuse! You’re the damn GM of a NBA franchise. If you lack confidence and get scared then you should NOT be running a team

Have you ever seen the video of Vivek running around sort of wondering or suggesting they should draft Stauskas in that Ringer video a few years ago?



LOL. I have. Ranadive is a clown. But I think he learned his lesson and has backed down from the running of a NBA team. Hopefully as many have said here Martins and RDV will back down. And with how confident and strong Weltman came across in the media conference, I am super excited he is going to clean up this garbage!
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Re: Revisiting Rob Hennigan and the Hiring of Frank Vogel 

Post#20 » by TheEnforcer » Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:16 pm

The real question is who's decision was the Oladipo/Sabonis - Ibaka trade and Biz signing.

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