new season 2019: Is Magic done with tanking?

Skybox · Post #81 » by **Skybox** » Sat May 12, 2018 2:42 pm

I'd be fine with the NBA imposing some "tough love" on tanking. Can't pick in the top 3 two years in a row or similar or even opening up to a "real" unweighted" lottery for the worst 14 teams or 8 or 4 or something. If we're going to work hard on something, let it be player development, good coaching, shrewd second-tier FA team assembly, etc...If it makes sense to tank, teams will do it. I don't like rewarding crappy organizations and I hate rewarding fighting to appear the crappiest...It just needs to go away. Bad organizations stay bad. We've been good and will be again. Hire good FO and coach and we'll climb.

drsd · Post #82 » by **drsd** » Thu May 17, 2018 9:34 am

The Effect wrote:How the hell does that fix tanking?

The worst team in the league is most probable to draft 5th at almost a 1 in 2 chance. Outright trying to lose the last 10 games of the season will have less point next year. So "player development" is scrapped.

The problem here is that the top of the draft became heavy because the Magic won the lottery with the lowest chance. So what happens next year when the 5th, 9th, 11th, and 12th worst teams in the league draft as the top-4? Fans of crap teams will scream for the lottery to be reverted to being top heavy.

..

drsd · Post #83 » by **drsd** » Thu May 17, 2018 10:22 am

BadMofoPimp wrote:Don't let the door hit you on the way out!

Maybe, if we tank for another 10 years straight, we may get lucky one draft and be relevant again. [/quote]

The point of the new lottery system is that being awful is less helpful to be lucky.

The Magic is intrinsically a 35 win club last year. Injuries took that to about 30. And the outright tank late season clinched another 5 losses. With the coming system, the Magic might not have tried so hard to lose at the end, ending up with something like 28 wins.

Having all teams trying to win every game must be the deposed system for the NBA to achieve.

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BadMofoPimp · Post #84 » by **BadMofoPimp** » Thu May 17, 2018 11:46 am

Skybox wrote:I'd be fine with the NBA imposing some "tough love" on tanking. Can't pick in the top 3 two years in a row or similar or even opening up to a "real" unweighted" lottery for the worst 14 teams or 8 or 4 or something. If we're going to work hard on something, let it be player development, good coaching, shrewd second-tier FA team assembly, etc...If it makes sense to tank, teams will do it. I don't like rewarding crappy organizations and I hate rewarding fighting to appear the crappiest...It just needs to go away. Bad organizations stay bad. We've been good and will be again. Hire good FO and coach and we'll climb.

My proposal is teams cannot draft Top 10 on consecutive years.

Furinkazan · Post #85 » by **Furinkazan** » Thu May 17, 2018 12:56 pm

problem with our tanking is we didnt do it hardcore style so we will suffer for a longer period of time now

in essence such hard tank is brutal but eventually takes less time
in a 2-4 year span you can build on 1-4 picks

but when you dont put effort into tanking you end up like Kings or Magic
you end up 5th-8th each year and overall tanking period takes a decade or longer
yeah eventually life throws you a bone and you end up with 2nd like Kings this year

on Kings example
list of players Kings missed on on at 1-4th on a 10+ year period of time because they drafted 5th-11th was impressive
You could build some all star teams in several combinations

now we are doing it very similiar to Kings so its hard to imagine that WE WILL TANK NO MORE.
In fact chances are we will tank for ages

if we will keep doing it half assed.
Only way is HINKIE WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY.

Nemesis21 · Post #86 » by **Nemesis21** » Thu May 17, 2018 1:00 pm

We need to tank properly this season. A top 3 pick for 2019 draft is a MUST. An absolute must. Period. No other way around it. It has to happen.

Furinkazan · Post #87 » by **Furinkazan** » Thu May 17, 2018 1:34 pm

Nemesis21 wrote:We need to tank properly this season. A top 3 pick for 2019 draft is a MUST. An absolute must. Period. No other way around it. It has to happen.

didnt you say this last year?:D :wink:

Nemesis21 · Post #88 » by **Nemesis21** » Thu May 17, 2018 1:43 pm

~Snoopy~ wrote:
Nemesis21 wrote:We need to tank properly this season. A top 3 pick for 2019 draft is a MUST. An absolute must. Period. No other way around it. It has to happen.

didnt you say this last year?:D

And was I wrong? We half ass tanked again and just like last draft fell from 5th to 6th. Winning the last game of the season killed our chance at Doncic. How many times is this team going to miss out on top players? Embiid, KAT, Porzingis, Tatum/J Jackson, Doncic. The list keeps getting longer and longer.

Furinkazan · Post #89 » by **Furinkazan** » Thu May 17, 2018 2:13 pm

Nemesis21 wrote:
~Snoopy~ wrote:
Nemesis21 wrote:We need to tank properly this season. A top 3 pick for 2019 draft is a MUST. An absolute must. Period. No other way around it. It has to happen.

didnt you say this last year?:D

And was I wrong? We half ass tanked again and just like last draft fell from 5th to 6th. Winning the last game of the season killed our chance at Doncic. How many times is this team going to miss out on top players? Embiid, KAT, Porzingis, Tatum/J Jackson, Doncic. The list keeps getting longer and longer.

ofc you werent wrong
Im just saying we keep preaching for few years now but sht dont change and next year we propbly will end up same situation saying
this year HAS TO BE YEAR we get 1-3

Nemesis21 · Post #90 » by **Nemesis21** » Thu May 17, 2018 2:18 pm

~Snoopy~ wrote:
Nemesis21 wrote:
~Snoopy~ wrote:didnt you say this last year?:D

And was I wrong? We half ass tanked again and just like last draft fell from 5th to 6th. Winning the last game of the season killed our chance at Doncic. How many times is this team going to miss out on top players? Embiid, KAT, Porzingis, Tatum/J Jackson, Doncic. The list keeps getting longer and longer.

ofc you werent wrong
Im just saying we keep preaching for few years now but sht dont change and next year we propbly will end up same situation saying
this year HAS TO BE YEAR we get 1-3

And people will continue to blame Hennigan and 4 coaches and soon WeHam. It's unfortunate but I really don't see things changing, until RDV and Martins are gone. It's the sad truth. We've been half ass tanking for 6 years now.

Furinkazan · Post #91 » by **Furinkazan** » Thu May 17, 2018 2:27 pm

Nemesis21 wrote:
~Snoopy~ wrote:
Nemesis21 wrote:

And was I wrong? We half ass tanked again and just like last draft fell from 5th to 6th. Winning the last game of the season killed our chance at Doncic. How many times is this team going to miss out on top players? Embiid, KAT, Porzingis, Tatum/J Jackson, Doncic. The list keeps getting longer and longer.

ofc you werent wrong
Im just saying we keep preaching for few years now but sht dont change and next year we propbly will end up same situation saying
this year HAS TO BE YEAR we get 1-3

And people will continue to blame Hennigan and 4 coaches and soon WeHam. It's unfortunate but I really don't see things changing, until RDV and Martins are gone. It's the sad truth. We've been half ass tanking for 6 years now.

I will keep blaming everybody in the Magic organisation for this rebuild fiasco
even a ballboy untill I see a change

drsd · Post #92 » by **drsd** » Sat May 19, 2018 7:58 pm

..

I previously posted this about not-giving-up / success:

Watch on YouTube

Here is the sequel:

Watch on YouTube

For me the point is one upgrades from learning how to suceed to, I will beat you down.

GO MAGIC!

..

MasterGMer · Post #93 » by **MasterGMer** » Sun May 20, 2018 1:35 am

Here is an idea I had recently:

Will the new management favor tanking any more?

With the draft odd change and a brand new era after Hennigan, would a new style of rebuilding this team be the case for Orlando?

I hope they build the team through player development and scouting plus a winning culture.

Tanking sucks!!

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

overtheborder · Post #94 » by **overtheborder** » Wed May 23, 2018 8:52 pm

Definitely think the focus should be on winning and development rather than on signing players from a draft - signing players doesn't necessarily guarantee winning things, whereas a change of culture and working with the talent you have can give you more of a chance.

MasterGMer · Post #95 » by **MasterGMer** » Fri Jun 1, 2018 4:42 am

Is Magic done with tanking?

Post #96 » by **Knightro** » Fri Jun 1, 2018 4:46 am

My guess is that Clifford will not be in the business of tanking.

We’ll see what Weltman gives him in terms of a roster to work with, but I expect him to try and squeeze as much blood out of the stone as he possibly can.

I highly doubt many fans will want to hear this, but I think Clifford would consider next season successful if he got them to play Top 10 defense and grinded out somewhere between 35-40 wins.

Then they could cite how much improvement they made the following offseason and how they’re going to build off that.

Post #97 » by **SOUL** » Fri Jun 1, 2018 5:33 am

Just what we need!

PrimeThyme · Post #98 » by **PrimeThyme** » Fri Jun 1, 2018 6:21 am

The problem is that we never started tanking.

npiper17 · Post #99 » by **npiper17** » Fri Jun 1, 2018 8:53 am

The Magic didn’t really tank at any point unless you count holding out a few guys who would have played if the team was in a playoff push at the end of last season. Nothing on the level of the Grizz / Mavs although the Grizz shot themselves in the foot a little by signing Marshon Brooks.

If the Magic are not going to commit to getting a top 5-10 pick next year then I’d call teams like Philly and the Clips to see if they’d be potentially interested in swapping their lottery pick this year (one of the Clips’) for the Magic’s 2019 pick protected maybe 1-3.

Nemesis21 · Post #100 » by **Nemesis21** » Fri Jun 1, 2018 11:32 am

PrimeShaq wrote:The problem is that we never started tanking.

Correct but let's continue to blame Rob and WeHam, not the two culprits who are truly behind this now 7 year rebuild.

I don't believe one bit that Clifford is a WeHam hire. It's a win now hire. And who's the two dummies that have been saying win now the last 7 years?

We'll see what happens. But for the first time ever as fan since day 1, I'm concerned that when Clifford is fired in 2-3 years and we are still in this mess, the team will move.

A decade rebuild.

We didn't have this bad of a stretch post Shaq, post T-Mac. Dumb and dumber have screwed us out of really bottoming out and a better chance at #1 pick, four out of the past seven seasons.