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For those who see this organisation as a dumpster fire...
Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 7:43 am
by npiper17
...it turns out that’s not the impression around the league.
Don’t believe me? Then listen to Woj’s podcast with Ian Begley where the most respected NBA insider specifically refers to (again) the appeal of the Orlando coaching job thanks to its freespending ownership, quality front office, historic ability to attract free agents and past success.
Not my words but the words of Woj. And it’s not the first time he’s said it (see earlier podcast with Bobby Marks).
Just something positive amongst the negativity.
Woj with Begley:
https://player.fm/series/the-woj-pod/ian-begley-gBbCpV7MHgwSQgLcWoj with Bobby Marks:
https://player.fm/series/the-woj-pod/espn-front-office-insider-bobby-marks-sGyvHDbDaxrk38Nc
Re: For those who see this organisation as a dumpster fire...
Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 8:09 am
by Tarheel
I have to say I agree with him.
I like what Weltman and Hammond are doing and I trust them to make progress with the team. I think organisationally they've improved us significantly this year and we will start trending upwards in terms of on-court product soon.
The fact that Weltman has expressly stated that he has autonomy over basketball ops is also encouraging. If Martins sticks to what he's good at and leaves the basketball side to the basketball people I see no reason we can't have success with this management group.
Re: For those who see this organisation as a dumpster fire...
Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 8:20 am
by doct3r dr3
Tarheel wrote:I have to say I agree with him.
I like what Weltman and Hammond are doing and I trust them to make progress with the team. I think organisationally they've improved us significantly this year and we will start trending upwards in terms of on-court product soon.
The fact that Weltman has expressly stated that he has autonomy over basketball ops is also encouraging. If Martins sticks to what he's good at and leaves the basketball side to the basketball people I see no reason we can't have success with this management group.
Re: For those who see this organisation as a dumpster fire...
Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 10:47 am
by Ducklett
Tarheel wrote:I have to say I agree with him.
I like what Weltman and Hammond are doing and I trust them to make progress with the team. I think organisationally they've improved us significantly this year and we will start trending upwards in terms of on-court product soon.
The fact that Weltman has expressly stated that he has autonomy over basketball ops is also encouraging. If Martins sticks to what he's good at and leaves the basketball side to the basketball people I see no reason we can't have success with this management group.
What are Weltman and Hammond doing? We missed on Donovan Mitchell and many other good rookies for Isaac (he still has a chance to be good), didn't pick up Mario, traded a decent pick (could have been Kuzma) for 2nds years away, Vuc and Evan still here.
I guess I just don't see the positives yet outside of Simmons.
Re: For those who see this organisation as a dumpster fire...
Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 11:23 am
by tiderulz
Ducklett wrote:Tarheel wrote:I have to say I agree with him.
I like what Weltman and Hammond are doing and I trust them to make progress with the team. I think organisationally they've improved us significantly this year and we will start trending upwards in terms of on-court product soon.
The fact that Weltman has expressly stated that he has autonomy over basketball ops is also encouraging. If Martins sticks to what he's good at and leaves the basketball side to the basketball people I see no reason we can't have success with this management group.
What are Weltman and Hammond doing? We missed on Donovan Mitchell and many other good rookies for Isaac (he still has a chance to be good), didn't pick up Mario, traded a decent pick (could have been Kuzma) for 2nds years away, Vuc and Evan still here.
I guess I just don't see the positives yet outside of Simmons.
no one saw Mitchell coming on the way he did, and he wouldnt have developed that way here, as he would have been behind EF, Ross and Simmons for playing time. Same with Kuzma, he would have seen just as much playing time as Isaac did, which is little.
Mario i blame on Vogel. Weltman and Hammond didnt have much of a view on him, so they HAD to have asked Vogel about him and Vogel didnt have too high opinion on him based on how little he played him
Re: For those who see this organisation as a dumpster fire...
Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 11:38 am
by npiper17
Ducklett wrote:Tarheel wrote:I have to say I agree with him.
I like what Weltman and Hammond are doing and I trust them to make progress with the team. I think organisationally they've improved us significantly this year and we will start trending upwards in terms of on-court product soon.
The fact that Weltman has expressly stated that he has autonomy over basketball ops is also encouraging. If Martins sticks to what he's good at and leaves the basketball side to the basketball people I see no reason we can't have success with this management group.
What are Weltman and Hammond doing? We missed on Donovan Mitchell and many other good rookies for Isaac (he still has a chance to be good), didn't pick up Mario, traded a decent pick (could have been Kuzma) for 2nds years away, Vuc and Evan still here.
I guess I just don't see the positives yet outside of Simmons.
With respect, this is not a thread to debate the performance to date of Weltman and Hammond.
The reality is that, whatever fans think about the Magic, they are viewed in a positive manner around the league. In the podcast I mentioned above, Woj talks about Fizdale being impressed by the Magic’s organisation but that Weltman wasn’t ready to make him an offer.
The point is that Woj is plugged in to how organisations are viewed around the league. He frequently talks about ‘poorly run organisations’ but doesn’t often mention them by name (probably to keep his sources on side). So he clearly knows there are poorly perceived organisations and after the six years we’ve just endured, I am pretty damn pleased we aren’t one of them!
Re: For those who see this organisation as a dumpster fire...
Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 11:56 am
by Blue_and_Whte
RDV need to go doe.. cuz arena cost.
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Re: For those who see this organisation as a dumpster fire...
Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 12:52 pm
by Optimus_Steel
Kind words mean nothing. All they really mean is that the people that run the team are polite. Doesn't mean S*** when it comes to winning games and being truly respected as a successful organization.
Re: For those who see this organisation as a dumpster fire...
Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 1:01 pm
by Furinkazan
This may be classy organisation and historicially we did good etc.All agree.
BUT PAST 6 YEARS Sportswise its a dumpster fire.Case closed.Dropping the mic.
Re: For those who see this organisation as a dumpster fire...
Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 1:13 pm
by Driguez
It's funny like always the fan base blames the FO of any team for passing on a player that became a stud after the fact. Who the hell saw Donovan becoming the player he is today? He probably had been the #1 pick if teams saw it in him. Seems like it happens every couple of drafts, it's almost like FO have to have a psychic on payroll.
Re: For those who see this organisation as a dumpster fire...
Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 1:27 pm
by Nemesis21
~Snoopy~ wrote:This may be classy organisation and historicially we did good etc.All agree.
BUT PAST 6 YEARS Sportswise its a dumpster fire.Case closed.Dropping the mic.
Re: For those who see this organisation as a dumpster fire...
Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 1:31 pm
by OrlandO
Doesn't really matter until we build a team with promise and start winning some games... we can't even attract the lowest tier of star right now.
Re: For those who see this organisation as a dumpster fire...
Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 4:08 pm
by Max Power
I’m giving Weltman and Hammond a pass for year 1. They said from day one that they needed time to observe what was going on here. The dumpster fire was started and well maintained by Rob Hennigan, it’s going to take time to fix the problem. A new coach and basketball guys at the top represent a new start we need. Payton’s trade to me represents the start of the major roster overhaul we’d need to undertake. If I’m Weltman and Hammond, I start almost completely fresh. This organization has a 30 year history of being relatively well run, successful periods more than not and has a good reputation overall. A bad run of basketball doesn’t necessarily mean the organization is bad. Sports run in cycles. We all need to remember that.
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Re: For those who see this organisation as a dumpster fire...
Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 4:22 pm
by Furinkazan
Max Power wrote:I’m giving Weltman and Hammond a pass for year 1. They said from day one that they needed time to observe what was going on here. The dumpster fire was started and well maintained by Rob Hennigan, it’s going to take time to fix the problem. A new coach and basketball guys at the top represent a new start we need. Payton’s trade to me represents the start of the major roster overhaul we’d need to undertake. If I’m Weltman and Hammond, I start almost completely fresh. This organization has a 30 year history of being relatively well run, successful periods more than not and has a good reputation overall. A bad run of basketball doesn’t necessarily mean the organization is bad. Sports run in cycles. We all need to remember that.
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but you need to separate 2 things
The fact it was run badly past 6 years and the other fact is organiation has a long history of being well run.
I dont see a problem here.
but
Its like op is telling me to turn blind eye to past 6 years because overall we were well run and now you add that aspect of sports being run in circles wich I dont agree with.Plenty of organisations without bad runs...or at least such long runs.
about giving Weltman and Hammond pass
true
still they already have 2 strikes (in my book)
1.draft flattening out
2.declining Mario option(which was the dumbest decision I have seen in a while) a young guy still with potential on a rookie scale deal gets his option declined so they can save peanuts money they will use for some usless 5ppg vet ...brilliant...2 minds still half a brain
Re: For those who see this organisation as a dumpster fire...
Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 4:46 pm
by Blue_and_Whte
Max Power wrote:I’m giving Weltman and Hammond a pass for year 1. They said from day one that they needed time to observe what was going on here. The dumpster fire was started and well maintained by Rob Hennigan, it’s going to take time to fix the problem. A new coach and basketball guys at the top represent a new start we need. Payton’s trade to me represents the start of the major roster overhaul we’d need to undertake. If I’m Weltman and Hammond, I start almost completely fresh. This organization has a 30 year history of being relatively well run, successful periods more than not and has a good reputation overall. A bad run of basketball doesn’t necessarily mean the organization is bad. Sports run in cycles. We all need to remember that.
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They absolutely deserve more time to build their team. They’re not even close.
Although trading away the 25th pick which may have made the Oladipo trade a little less horrific and not keeping Mario were poor decisions imo. What negative impact would obtaining and keeping young assets have?
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For those who see this organisation as a dumpster fire...
Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 4:46 pm
by Blue_and_Whte
Double post
Re: For those who see this organisation as a dumpster fire...
Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 4:49 pm
by tiderulz
~Snoopy~ wrote:Max Power wrote:I’m giving Weltman and Hammond a pass for year 1. They said from day one that they needed time to observe what was going on here. The dumpster fire was started and well maintained by Rob Hennigan, it’s going to take time to fix the problem. A new coach and basketball guys at the top represent a new start we need. Payton’s trade to me represents the start of the major roster overhaul we’d need to undertake. If I’m Weltman and Hammond, I start almost completely fresh. This organization has a 30 year history of being relatively well run, successful periods more than not and has a good reputation overall. A bad run of basketball doesn’t necessarily mean the organization is bad. Sports run in cycles. We all need to remember that.
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but you need to separate 2 things
The fact it was run badly past 6 years and the other fact is organiation has a long history of being well run.
I dont see a problem here.
but
Its like op is telling me to turn blind eye to past 6 years because overall we were well run and now you add that aspect of sports being run in circles wich I dont agree with.Plenty of organisations without bad runs...or at least such long runs.
about giving Weltman and Hammond pass
true
still they already have 2 strikes (in my book)
1.draft flattening out
2.declining Mario option(which was the dumbest decision I have seen in a while) a young guy still with potential on a rookie scale deal gets his option declined so they can save peanuts money they will use for some usless 5ppg vet ...brilliant...2 minds still half a brain
to be fair, no one drafted 25 or later has set the world on fire. Except for Kuzma, and he wouldnt have produced the same in Orlando as he wouldnt have had any playing time behind both Isaac and Gordon. Now a year or 2 down the road with development and seasoning, a few of those players might look good, but it doesnt look so bad right now. And i also criticized them for this.
Re: For those who see this organisation as a dumpster fire...
Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 5:05 pm
by Furinkazan
tiderulz wrote:~Snoopy~ wrote:Max Power wrote:I’m giving Weltman and Hammond a pass for year 1. They said from day one that they needed time to observe what was going on here. The dumpster fire was started and well maintained by Rob Hennigan, it’s going to take time to fix the problem. A new coach and basketball guys at the top represent a new start we need. Payton’s trade to me represents the start of the major roster overhaul we’d need to undertake. If I’m Weltman and Hammond, I start almost completely fresh. This organization has a 30 year history of being relatively well run, successful periods more than not and has a good reputation overall. A bad run of basketball doesn’t necessarily mean the organization is bad. Sports run in cycles. We all need to remember that.
Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums
but you need to separate 2 things
The fact it was run badly past 6 years and the other fact is organiation has a long history of being well run.
I dont see a problem here.
but
Its like op is telling me to turn blind eye to past 6 years because overall we were well run and now you add that aspect of sports being run in circles wich I dont agree with.Plenty of organisations without bad runs...or at least such long runs.
about giving Weltman and Hammond pass
true
still they already have 2 strikes (in my book)
1.draft flattening out
2.declining Mario option(which was the dumbest decision I have seen in a while) a young guy still with potential on a rookie scale deal gets his option declined so they can save peanuts money they will use for some usless 5ppg vet ...brilliant...2 minds still half a brain
to be fair, no one drafted 25 or later has set the world on fire. Except for Kuzma, and he wouldnt have produced the same in Orlando as he wouldnt have had any playing time behind both Isaac and Gordon. Now a year or 2 down the road with development and seasoning, a few of those players might look good, but it doesnt look so bad right now. And i also criticized them for this.
such statement itslef was idiotic like they already knew who will pan out and who wont
they are so good at evaluating players as Mario case proved they coudnt even figure out a player they could watch on a daily basis but one glance at 17 draft prospects and they already knew draft flattened out
Re: For those who see this organisation as a dumpster fire...
Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 5:57 pm
by VFX
The only positives in the last 6 years have been hiring a new PBO and GM to replace the incompetence that existed beforehand.
I’m not going to list the questionable moves made by this current management, but I think it’s naive to think this organization hasn’t been completely mismanaged up to their hiring.
We will see what happens in the coming months, but it’s going to take a lot of really good moves for me to believe this organization is in any way deserving of being labeled “appealing” from a basketball operations standpoint.
Re: For those who see this organisation as a dumpster fire...
Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 6:00 pm
by rcklsscognition
Getting the #1 pick will put out the flames real quick next Tuesday.