How to build (again)

[Skin]

WeHam's first step is to get this HC pick right. This pick has to be specific. WeHam's philosophy is to build a team based on suffocating length, so they need a coach who knows how to harness that kind of team and make it successful. Jason Kidd got fired because he didn't. That doesn't mean I think they can only look at a list of names of guys who have done that successfully before, but I do think they need to find someone extremely smart. Someone who understands defensive concepts at an elite level. Someone with class who's voice will resonate throughout the lockerroom because the players respect him... unlike the yeller types that eventually get tuned out. Someone that can coach up players and take them to another level. Someone who holds accountability. Someone who doesn't panic under pressure. Someone who has a burning desire to succeed in his job.

Ettore Messina is that kind of man.

[Nemesis21]

WeHam's first step is to get this HC pick right. This pick has to be specific. WeHam's philosophy is to build a team based on suffocating length, so they need a coach who knows how to harness that kind of team and make it successful. Jason Kidd got fired because he didn't. That doesn't mean I think they can only look at a list of names of guys who have done that successfully before, but I do think they need to find someone extremely smart. Someone who understands defensive concepts at an elite level. Someone with class who's voice will resonate throughout the lockerroom because the players respect him... unlike the yeller types that eventually get tuned out. Someone that can coach up players and take them to another level. Someone who holds accountability. Someone who doesn't panic under pressure. Someone who has a burning desire to succeed in his job.

Ettore Messina is that kind of man.

[Landshark]

If we can rob a terrible GM of his draft picks like Ainge did, then by all means we should avoid tanking. But that's not likely to happen. The same goes for coaching. While I think we can find a good coach, it'll be hard to find one who's Brad Stevens-caliber. Without those two components, the Celtics plan doesn't work.

Every plan listed is possible, but the 76ers plan requires the least luck, which is why I voted for it.

[MagicStarwipe]

The Celtics thing sounds good, but they also have so much more talent and more competitive players on that team. We need talent BADLY.

[Furinkazan]

Id build with lego's this time

[Optimus_Steel]

Half the teams in the playoffs don't have a top 3 pick that they drafted... it's pretty inexcusable that we couldn't build a proper team. We had plenty of opportunity to do so.

Correct we did. But we also had two people rush the rebuild multiple times.

You can blame Martins all you want doesn't change the fact that Hennigan failed under any type of pressure and had a huge hand in blunders over his five years. He's a scout, not a GM.... and everything we saw reflected this. The biggest knock on Martins shouldn't be that he might have pressured Hennigan to make a couple decisions... it should be that he hired unqualified Hennigan in the first place.

Martins interviewed the Utah GM.....

Ultimately Martins thought Rob was some kind of boy genius, thought he found his Theo Epstein. Ultimately its Martins fault for hiring him. Rob wasn't even the top assistant in OKC...

[Skybox]

If we can rob a terrible GM of his draft picks like Ainge did, then by all means we should avoid tanking. But that's not likely to happen. The same goes for coaching. While I think we can find a good coach, it'll be hard to find one who's Brad Stevens-caliber. Without those two components, the Celtics plan doesn't work.

Every plan listed is possible, but the 76ers plan requires the least luck, which is why I voted for it.

IMO, 76ers had the MOST luck ...you can’t successfully tank year after year. If you pick a great player- you should get better (simple.)
Unless, you (amazingly) redshirt 4(4!) of them with season long rookie injuries and 2 of them show up healthy and possessing generational talent at the same time. This doesn’t even factor in the crapshoot that is the lottery (especially starting next year) and the crapshoot that is the draft (see Okafor, Noel, Mitchell, Giannis, etc)...no one will ever tank that “successfully” for that long again- I’m happy for PHI and their fired GM, they pulled it off but I can’t see it. Build steady, we’ve got young pieces/high picks already on the team to develop...Hezonja might haunt us- I think they bailed early and can’t blame Henny for that call. We looked SO much worse than this roster should for last two years, a couple of personnel, organizational, and coaching tweaks could get us back on track to be competitive, then good, then relevant and an attractive FA destination...Utah model, I guess

[Def Swami]

Half the teams in the playoffs don't have a top 3 pick that they drafted... it's pretty inexcusable that we couldn't build a proper team. We had plenty of opportunity to do so.

Correct we did. But we also had two people rush the rebuild multiple times.

You can blame Martins all you want doesn't change the fact that Hennigan failed under any type of pressure and had a huge hand in blunders over his five years. He's a scout, not a GM.... and everything we saw reflected this. The biggest knock on Martins shouldn't be that he might have pressured Hennigan to make a couple decisions... it should be that he hired unqualified Hennigan in the first place.

Yeah, as much as Martins and ownership interfered in Hennigan's vision, Hennigan failed to find a real cornerstone piece in the draft. And everything about Elfrid Payton, from the trade form to building a team around him, was just awful.

[Nemesis21]

Correct we did. But we also had two people rush the rebuild multiple times.

You can blame Martins all you want doesn't change the fact that Hennigan failed under any type of pressure and had a huge hand in blunders over his five years. He's a scout, not a GM.... and everything we saw reflected this. The biggest knock on Martins shouldn't be that he might have pressured Hennigan to make a couple decisions... it should be that he hired unqualified Hennigan in the first place.

Yeah, as much as Martins and ownership interfered in Hennigan's vision, Hennigan failed to find a real cornerstone piece in the draft. And everything about Elfrid Payton, from the trade form to building a team around him, was just awful.

It's equally as awful, that none of our coaches really developed him.

[bigpimpatl]

Id build with lego's this time

Spoiler:

whoever designed that s/b fired. Lol it looks nothing like him!

[Max Power]

I honestly don’t believe rebuilding the Philly way is what we should do. I believe we can be respectable again in two years. Maybe not playoff bound then but on the way there and have a foundation set. Here’s how you do it..

1. Take out the garbage and take your beatings next season. For this we clear the majority of the roster. Vucevic, Fournier, and yes, Aaron Gordon need to be removed from this roster. We stick with Simmons, Issac and our draftees this year so the cupboard isn’t completely bare. I’m fine with Augustine also. Maybe elevate a couple of guys from Lakeland. I like Vuc but moving him might be the true lynch pin to improving this team. I no longer see Gordon as a viable star piece. Paying him max money will keep us from winning for 10 years. Fournier is just a stat man and not conducive for a winning team.

2. Draft competitive players. Draft guys with chips on their shoulders, not the shiniest piece in the box. Our rosters since the Dwightmare hasn’t had but one guy like that and that was Big Baby Davis of all people. We need some ball hawks and some guys who’ll get dirty in the paint. Guys who want to win, not be the leading scorer on the team. Among guys like this a real true team leader should emerge. Something the Magic haven’t had since Jameer Nelson.

3. A balanced coach. A guy with nba experience as a player, and has had success coaching, but we need a guy who’ll be no nonsense with these guys too. No idea who that could be. Perhaps Stackhouse or Monty Williams. I’d still vote for a Bill Laimbeer.

4. Once cap flexibility is in place, always be responsible with it. Quit overpaying guys who get hot for a few playoff games or had moderately good seasons prior (examples: Bizmack Biyombo and Ike Austin), and spend on free agents with a proven track record of at least 2-3 years.

I think this technique gets us back to competitive basketball quickly. Just my two cents though.


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[MagicMatic]

I honestly don’t believe rebuilding the Philly way is what we should do. I believe we can be respectable again in two years. Maybe not playoff bound then but on the way there and have a foundation set. Here’s how you do it..

1. Take out the garbage and take your beatings next season. For this we clear the majority of the roster. Vucevic, Fournier, and yes, Aaron Gordon need to be removed from this roster. We stick with Simmons, Issac and our draftees this year so the cupboard isn’t completely bare. I’m fine with Augustine also. Maybe elevate a couple of guys from Lakeland. I like Vuc but moving him might be the true lynch pin to improving this team. I no longer see Gordon as a viable star piece. Paying him max money will keep us from winning for 10 years. Fournier is just a stat man and not conducive for a winning team.

2. Draft competitive players. Draft guys with chips on their shoulders, not the shiniest piece in the box. Our rosters since the Dwightmare hasn’t had but one guy like that and that was Big Baby Davis of all people. We need some ball hawks and some guys who’ll get dirty in the paint. Guys who want to win, not be the leading scorer on the team. Among guys like this a real true team leader should emerge. Something the Magic haven’t had since Jameer Nelson.

3. A balanced coach. A guy with nba experience as a player, and has had success coaching, but we need a guy who’ll be no nonsense with these guys too. No idea who that could be. Perhaps Stackhouse or Monty Williams. I’d still vote for a Bill Laimbeer.

4. Once cap flexibility is in place, always be responsible with it. Quit overpaying guys who get hot for a few playoff games or had moderately good seasons prior (examples: Bizmack Biyombo and Ike Austin), and spend on free agents with a proven track record of at least 2-3 years.

I think this technique gets us back to competitive basketball quickly. Just my two cents though.


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Amen to all except #3. Player coaches are very few and far between.

[Max Power]

I see your point. I mostly meant balance. A successful coach period can accomplish that too, doesn’t necessarily have to be a former player.


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[JBSouthpaw]

I honestly don’t believe rebuilding the Philly way is what we should do. I believe we can be respectable again in two years. Maybe not playoff bound then but on the way there and have a foundation set. Here’s how you do it..

1. Take out the garbage and take your beatings next season. For this we clear the majority of the roster. Vucevic, Fournier, and yes, Aaron Gordon need to be removed from this roster. We stick with Simmons, Issac and our draftees this year so the cupboard isn’t completely bare. I’m fine with Augustine also. Maybe elevate a couple of guys from Lakeland. I like Vuc but moving him might be the true lynch pin to improving this team. I no longer see Gordon as a viable star piece. Paying him max money will keep us from winning for 10 years. Fournier is just a stat man and not conducive for a winning team.

2. Draft competitive players. Draft guys with chips on their shoulders, not the shiniest piece in the box. Our rosters since the Dwightmare hasn’t had but one guy like that and that was Big Baby Davis of all people. We need some ball hawks and some guys who’ll get dirty in the paint. Guys who want to win, not be the leading scorer on the team. Among guys like this a real true team leader should emerge. Something the Magic haven’t had since Jameer Nelson.

3. A balanced coach. A guy with nba experience as a player, and has had success coaching, but we need a guy who’ll be no nonsense with these guys too. No idea who that could be. Perhaps Stackhouse or Monty Williams. I’d still vote for a Bill Laimbeer.

4. Once cap flexibility is in place, always be responsible with it. Quit overpaying guys who get hot for a few playoff games or had moderately good seasons prior (examples: Bizmack Biyombo and Ike Austin), and spend on free agents with a proven track record of at least 2-3 years.

I think this technique gets us back to competitive basketball quickly. Just my two cents though.


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This is kind of my feeling, we have never really bottomed out. We've tried to stay competitive and it hasn't worked.
resign AG then:
1. agree to a deal with FA Marcus Smart before draft.
2. Draft BPA (non PG) at 6.
3. Trade Evan for a mid 1st
4. trade Mid 1st, plus Ross& Mack PLUS next year's (1st top 3 protected) for McCullom. (Port. is going to be over the cap big time next few years for what in the west? Saves them 10M in 2018-19 and 26M+ future)
Evan & Ross's contracts equal out to McCullom's for 2018-19.

Starts the season with
Smart (Can Guard either Guard spot)/DJ
McCullom/Simmons
J.I./Simmons/Wes
AG/Draft pick
Vuc/Biz/Birch

Trade deadline, move Vuc for 2019 pick.

[GatorbaitDD]

We dont have the assets to build the way the Celtics did. It's pretty clear that our best path is to bottom out as unfortunate as that is. If we had vets with trade value, sure go the Celtics route. We really don't.

[JBSouthpaw]

We dont have the assets to build the way the Celtics did. It's pretty clear that our best path is to bottom out as unfortunate as that is. If we had vets with trade value, sure go the Celtics route. We really don't.

I think Evan should have some value, in prime manageable contract. I maintain he should be JJ's replacement in Philly.

[Max Power]

I think Vuc and Fournier can get us one decent piece, so let’s let them go. 25 win seasons with those 2 as our go to’s needs to be over. Maybe not an all star piece but a decent starter. I also don’t agree with keeping Aaron Gordon. He’s not helped us win anything in 4 years. I don’t see him turning to into a 25 and 9 pf. He’s a good dunker, a moderately talented overall player and a piss poor leader. It’s time to let Hennigans legacy go.


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[JBSouthpaw]

I think Vuc and Fournier can get us one decent piece, so let’s let them go. 25 win seasons with those 2 as our go to’s needs to be over. Maybe not an all star piece but a decent starter. I also don’t agree with keeping Aaron Gordon. He’s not helped us win anything in 4 years. I don’t see him turning to into a 25 and 9 pf. He’s a good dunker, a moderately talented overall player and a piss poor leader. It’s time to let Hennigans legacy go.


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IF the old S&T option was still around, I think that is what would happen.
I feel like we're trapped into having to re-sign him after Victor's success.

[Skybox]

If we can rob a terrible GM of his draft picks like Ainge did, then by all means we should avoid tanking. But that's not likely to happen. The same goes for coaching. While I think we can find a good coach, it'll be hard to find one who's Brad Stevens-caliber. Without those two components, the Celtics plan doesn't work.

Every plan listed is possible, but the 76ers plan requires the least luck, which is why I voted for it.

IMO, 76ers had the MOST luck ...you can’t successfully tank year after year. If you pick a great player- you should get better (simple.)
Unless, you (amazingly) redshirt 4(4!) of them with season long rookie injuries and 2 of them show up healthy and possessing generational talent at the same time. This doesn’t even factor in the crapshoot that is the lottery (especially starting next year) and the crapshoot that is the draft (see Okafor, Noel, Mitchell, Giannis, etc)...no one will ever tank that “successfully” for that long again- I’m happy for PHI and their fired GM, they pulled it off but I can’t see it. Build steady, we’ve got young pieces/high picks already on the team to develop...Hezonja might haunt us- I think they bailed early and can’t blame Henny for that call. We looked SO much worse than this roster should for last two years, a couple of personnel, organizational, and coaching tweaks could get us back on track to be competitive, then good, then relevant and an attractive FA destination...Utah model, I guess

Actually make it 5 (!) redshirt seasons including Saric....absolutely ridiculously un-repeatable! (and really didn't Embiid have 2?)