Trae

[shadrock]

Ok, so ive sped through the stages of grief from anger to acceptance pretty quick. We are not getting Ayton, Doncic, JJJ, im ok with this. Its time to move on, so help me understand more about Trae Young.

Living in Australia, i wasnt as exposed to his college season as much as those of you from the states would have been, where he seemed to be approaching Linsanity type levels of hype from what i can gather. Then all of a sudden he falls off a cliff and everybody has gone cold on him. He went from being considered the next Steph Curry to being the next Trey Burke in a matter of a few weeks? Why is this? From a scan of his game log, it wouldn't appear the stats dropped off all that much. Is the change in attitude towards him mainly due to the narrative being put out there by the big media outlets like ESPN? If it is purely based on performance, what were the actual concerns about him?

I mean, it wouldnt surprise me at all to see a guy who is in his first college season start to wear down and get tired if he wasnt in super good shape. Could it just be something that simple? Almost like him hitting a rookie wall? The skills i have seen in the clips of him dont seem like things he would just be unable to do overnight without there being some kind of injury or change in his mental state.

Interested to hear everyones take on him.

[fendilim]

To me, its more about the scouts figured out how to defend him.

Id still prefer Bamba over him though, tbh.

[pepe1991]

Young might be most unathletic guard under 6'3 drafted in lottery in last 25 years.
Not sure can he get shots up at bigger stage, especially in playoffs where somebody will chase him around all the time.

[Xatticus]

His statistics were very impressive over the first half of the season. When conference play opened up and he faced stiffer competition, his efficiency dropped substantially. The volume was still gaudy, but the efficiency didn't justify the usage. Oklahoma went into a tailspin in conference play and got bounced out in the first round of the tournament that they really shouldn't have been selected to participate in.

We've seen other collegiate guards with similar profiles post comparable scoring lines as freshmen; some on even better efficiency. These types often falter in the NBA when their lack of size and athleticism become a more significant hindrance to shot creation. We've already seen this is an issue for Young at the collegiate level. He isn't a good finisher at the basket. He can get by his man, but he lacks the size and athleticism to finish at the basket. He was very good at getting to the free throw line in those situations though.

It's worth noting that his shot selection was hideous this year. Within that context, it's possible that his efficiency would climb to an impressive level if he reined in his shot selection. He has a very quick release and he can shoot off the dribble, so he does project to be a weapon with the ball in his hands. Again though, this doesn't make him special. Mahmoud Abdul Rauf and Dana Barros possessed the same (or better) shooting proficiency in a similar package. Neither were particularly good players though.

He racked up a lot of assists, but his turnover rate was obscene. As such, his AST/TOV was not impressive. He dribbles with his head up and has good vision, but he makes some really dumb passes. He tries to thread passes through windows that aren't there.

He adds nothing at the defensive end. He'll chase the occasional long rebound or slip into a passing lane once in a while, but he plays defense as if he has no responsibilities at that end. He lets others do the work and calls for the outlet pass with an eye on transition. He doesn't have plus size or athleticism, but he plays smaller than he is. For all of his offense, I don't know that there exists any evidence that he can dunk.

This is going to be an interesting draft to look back at in ten years' time because there are so many boom/bust prospects, but none so much as Young. He has some legitimate assets. His combination of dribbling, court vision, and a quick release can be really dangerous. On top of this, he understands how to manipulate defenders and use space to his advantage. Because of his liabilities, he will have to be a terrific offensive player to provide genuine value. There is potential there, but his struggles in conference play are a significant cause for concern.

[Ducklett]

His statistics were very impressive over the first half of the season. When conference play opened up and he faced stiffer competition, his efficiency dropped substantially. The volume was still gaudy, but the efficiency didn't justify the usage. Oklahoma went into a tailspin in conference play and got bounced out in the first round of the tournament that they really shouldn't have been selected to participate in.

We've seen other collegiate guards with similar profiles post comparable scoring lines as freshmen; some on even better efficiency. These types often falter in the NBA when their lack of size and athleticism become a more significant hindrance to shot creation. We've already seen this is an issue for Young at the collegiate level. He isn't a good finisher at the basket. He can get by his man, but he lacks the size and athleticism to finish at the basket. He was very good at getting to the free throw line in those situations though.

It's worth noting that his shot selection was hideous this year. Within that context, it's possible that his efficiency would climb to an impressive level if he reined in his shot selection. He has a very quick release and he can shoot off the dribble, so he does project to be a weapon with the ball in his hands. Again though, this doesn't make him special. Mahmoud Abdul Rauf and Dana Barros possessed the same (or better) shooting proficiency in a similar package. Neither were particularly good players though.

He racked up a lot of assists, but his turnover rate was obscene. As such, his AST/TOV was not impressive. He dribbles with his head up and has good vision, but he makes some really dumb passes. He tries to thread passes through windows that aren't there.

He adds nothing at the defensive end. He'll chase the occasional long rebound or slip into a passing lane once in a while, but he plays defense as if he has no responsibilities at that end. He lets others do the work and calls for the outlet pass with an eye on transition. He doesn't have plus size or athleticism, but he plays smaller than he is. For all of his offense, I don't know that there exists any evidence that he can dunk.

This is going to be an interesting draft to look back at in ten years' time because there are so many boom/bust prospects, but none so much as Young. He has some legitimate assets. His combination of dribbling, court vision, and a quick release can be really dangerous. On top of this, he understands how to manipulate defenders and use space to his advantage. Because of his liabilities, he will have to be a terrific offensive player to provide genuine value. There is potential there, but his struggles in conference play are a significant cause for concern.

Could you copy and paste this everywhere on the internet?

[npiper17]

His statistics were very impressive over the first half of the season. When conference play opened up and he faced stiffer competition, his efficiency dropped substantially. The volume was still gaudy, but the efficiency didn't justify the usage. Oklahoma went into a tailspin in conference play and got bounced out in the first round of the tournament that they really shouldn't have been selected to participate in.

We've seen other collegiate guards with similar profiles post comparable scoring lines as freshmen; some on even better efficiency. These types often falter in the NBA when their lack of size and athleticism become a more significant hindrance to shot creation. We've already seen this is an issue for Young at the collegiate level. He isn't a good finisher at the basket. He can get by his man, but he lacks the size and athleticism to finish at the basket. He was very good at getting to the free throw line in those situations though.

It's worth noting that his shot selection was hideous this year. Within that context, it's possible that his efficiency would climb to an impressive level if he reined in his shot selection. He has a very quick release and he can shoot off the dribble, so he does project to be a weapon with the ball in his hands. Again though, this doesn't make him special. Mahmoud Abdul Rauf and Dana Barros possessed the same (or better) shooting proficiency in a similar package. Neither were particularly good players though.

He racked up a lot of assists, but his turnover rate was obscene. As such, his AST/TOV was not impressive. He dribbles with his head up and has good vision, but he makes some really dumb passes. He tries to thread passes through windows that aren't there.

He adds nothing at the defensive end. He'll chase the occasional long rebound or slip into a passing lane once in a while, but he plays defense as if he has no responsibilities at that end. He lets others do the work and calls for the outlet pass with an eye on transition. He doesn't have plus size or athleticism, but he plays smaller than he is. For all of his offense, I don't know that there exists any evidence that he can dunk.

This is going to be an interesting draft to look back at in ten years' time because there are so many boom/bust prospects, but none so much as Young. He has some legitimate assets. His combination of dribbling, court vision, and a quick release can be really dangerous. On top of this, he understands how to manipulate defenders and use space to his advantage. Because of his liabilities, he will have to be a terrific offensive player to provide genuine value. There is potential there, but his struggles in conference play are a significant cause for concern.

Completely agree on the boom bust nature of this draft.

The first 10 picks all have question marks and whilst, imo, Doncic is more of a sure thing than others, even he isn’t a dead cert.

Probably why the Hawks weren’t thrilled about getting the 3rd pick.

[Mauro Pedrosa]

Fantastic prospect with some concerns (athleticism, mainly) but will likely make a lot of teams look foolish for passing on him.

His teammates were terrible but he still remained unselfish, especially for such a highly touted young player.

He's 19 years old (remember that) and he already has unlimited range and a high basketball IQ. His game will likely be elevated playing alongside NBA talent.

He will have to be hidden on defense but if he gets a chance to play with a good point-forward to get some catch and shoot 3s he'll be deadly.

If you expect him to be Russell Westbrook / Allen Iverson and just take your team to the next level by himself you'll probably be disappointed. Young is a team player that WILL need a good system around him, but he will be a tremendous PG under those circumstances

[Skybox]

I'd be excited to hope to "develop" a young player's efficiency/shot selection instead of trying to count on teaching them how to shoot.

He's slight, he's not Michael Smith-explosive, but the "unathletic" label seems overblown to me...he's got great handles and change of direction (or he wouldn't have gotten his shot off). His massive decline under the well-scouted second half of the year did NOT prevent this slow weak midget from leading the NCAA in scoring AND assists. Ponder what's involved in that. He was far from just a spot up shooter, he led the whole offense despite the defensive barrage he faced every night.

The only real criticism I'm concerned about is his lack of interest in defense...however, I choose to believe that his offensive role was so extreme and demanding that part of the game plan was for him to recover on D. Not crazy about that theory but that's what I'm going with (until I'm not). He's intelligent, quick, and agile, so I think he can "develop" team D instincts...again beats developing offensive bball skills, imo.

[Patrick1978]

Young is a baller,he can really play

[Audi]

Young was double teamed on 43.7% of touches past half court in his freshman year at Oklahoma, the closest a PG has ever been to that was Stephen Curry at 31.4%.

Still posted 27.4 ppg and 8.7 apg.

[pepe1991]

Fantastic prospect with some concerns (athleticism, mainly) but will likely make a lot of teams look foolish for passing on him.

His teammates were terrible but he still remained unselfish, especially for such a highly touted young player.

He's 19 years old (remember that) and he already has unlimited range and a high basketball IQ. His game will likely be elevated playing alongside NBA talent.

He will have to be hidden on defense but if he gets a chance to play with a good point-forward to get some catch and shoot 3s he'll be deadly.

If you expect him to be Russell Westbrook / Allen Iverson and just take your team to the next level by himself you'll probably be disappointed. Young is a team player that WILL need a good system around him, but he will be a tremendous PG under those circumstances

How does shooting around 50% of all FGA of a team and playing no defense at college level makes you team player?
It's basically Westbrooking just without effort on defense.

Sorry but every player ,who is PG and who thinks that half court shot with 18 sec on the clock is best shot he can get isn't high IQ player and that type of player doesn't value team concept and is insulting his teammates if he thinks that's best shot TEAM can take.

Look at best teams in two conferences right now, Celtics and Warriors. They keep moving and passing and look for best shots, even Curry , who is best shooter in history, really doesn't shoot yolo 40 footers any more, at least not in playoffs.

I do belive that Trae can be good shooter on team that can give him good looks, however let's not act like he actually plays that way. Most of shots he took are ones where he ballhoged and took shot off dribble. ( unlike everything we saw from Curry at college ).

We see pattern with ball dominant players who refuse to give up ball, even top 5 players (Harden, Lebron ) and Westbrook ( top 10), their teams lot of times look disinterested and with bad body language, Ibaka once said it best about Westbrook, it's not about will he get shot off or not, it's a fact that he hates to play on team where he can't even touch a ball and that it's not fair to expect high level of defense from him if he is ignored on other end.

Can Young overcome lot of things we view as negatives about his game now? Sure.
However, let's not fool ourselfs, somebody with T rex arms , no hoops, limited latheral quickness will always be negative defender at PG position. So only question is - can his offense be that good to the point where his defense can be overlooked?


I personally don't think it can, i view him as better passing, much less athletic Lillard. He just loves to take awful shots.

[Magic#1]

Fantastic prospect with some concerns (athleticism, mainly) but will likely make a lot of teams look foolish for passing on him.

His teammates were terrible but he still remained unselfish, especially for such a highly touted young player.

He's 19 years old (remember that) and he already has unlimited range and a high basketball IQ. His game will likely be elevated playing alongside NBA talent.

He will have to be hidden on defense but if he gets a chance to play with a good point-forward to get some catch and shoot 3s he'll be deadly.

If you expect him to be Russell Westbrook / Allen Iverson and just take your team to the next level by himself you'll probably be disappointed. Young is a team player that WILL need a good system around him, but he will be a tremendous PG under those circumstances

That right there can't be overlooked. He had to dominate so much because his team was lost without him. If he has better teammates, he'll be a more efficient player. I'm sure he will still have some really bad nights in his first few years, but as he develops he should be more efficient. He's not a perfect prospect by any means, but if we stay at 6, he would probably be my pick.

[JBSouthpaw]

Fantastic prospect with some concerns (athleticism, mainly) but will likely make a lot of teams look foolish for passing on him.

His teammates were terrible but he still remained unselfish, especially for such a highly touted young player.

He's 19 years old (remember that) and he already has unlimited range and a high basketball IQ. His game will likely be elevated playing alongside NBA talent.

He will have to be hidden on defense but if he gets a chance to play with a good point-forward to get some catch and shoot 3s he'll be deadly.

If you expect him to be Russell Westbrook / Allen Iverson and just take your team to the next level by himself you'll probably be disappointed. Young is a team player that WILL need a good system around him, but he will be a tremendous PG under those circumstances

How does shooting around 50% of all FGA of a team and playing no defense at college level makes you team player?
It's basically Westbrooking just without effort on defense.

Sorry but every player ,who is PG and who thinks that half court shot with 18 sec on the clock is best shot he can get isn't high IQ player and that type of player doesn't value team concept and is insulting his teammates if he thinks that's best shot TEAM can take.

Look at best teams in two conferences right now, Celtics and Warriors. They keep moving and passing and look for best shots, even Curry , who is best shooter in history, really doesn't shoot yolo 40 footers any more, at least not in playoffs.

I do belive that Trae can be good shooter on team that can give him good looks, however let's not act like he actually plays that way. Most of shots he took are ones where he ballhoged and took shot off dribble. ( unlike everything we saw from Curry at college ).

We see pattern with ball dominant players who refuse to give up ball, even top 5 players (Harden, Lebron ) and Westbrook ( top 10), their teams lot of times look disinterested and with bad body language, Ibaka once said it best about Westbrook, it's not about will he get shot off or not, it's a fact that he hates to play on team where he can't even touch a ball and that it's not fair to expect high level of defense from him if he is ignored on other end.

Can Young overcome lot of things we view as negatives about his game now? Sure.
However, let's not fool ourselfs, somebody with T rex arms , no hoops, limited latheral quickness will always be negative defender at PG position. So only question is - can his offense be that good to the point where his defense can be overlooked?


I personally don't think it can, i view him as better passing, much less athletic Lillard. He just loves to take awful shots.

It's also understanding the role he was in at OK, his coach says if you don't shoot 20+ times a game we have no chance of winning.

That stat that AUDI posted about being double teamed 43% of the time, is crazy.

[Mauro Pedrosa]

And Trae said he wanted to be like Steve Nash. That is very encouraging

[pepe1991]

Fantastic prospect with some concerns (athleticism, mainly) but will likely make a lot of teams look foolish for passing on him.

His teammates were terrible but he still remained unselfish, especially for such a highly touted young player.

He's 19 years old (remember that) and he already has unlimited range and a high basketball IQ. His game will likely be elevated playing alongside NBA talent.

He will have to be hidden on defense but if he gets a chance to play with a good point-forward to get some catch and shoot 3s he'll be deadly.

If you expect him to be Russell Westbrook / Allen Iverson and just take your team to the next level by himself you'll probably be disappointed. Young is a team player that WILL need a good system around him, but he will be a tremendous PG under those circumstances

How does shooting around 50% of all FGA of a team and playing no defense at college level makes you team player?
It's basically Westbrooking just without effort on defense.

Sorry but every player ,who is PG and who thinks that half court shot with 18 sec on the clock is best shot he can get isn't high IQ player and that type of player doesn't value team concept and is insulting his teammates if he thinks that's best shot TEAM can take.

Look at best teams in two conferences right now, Celtics and Warriors. They keep moving and passing and look for best shots, even Curry , who is best shooter in history, really doesn't shoot yolo 40 footers any more, at least not in playoffs.

I do belive that Trae can be good shooter on team that can give him good looks, however let's not act like he actually plays that way. Most of shots he took are ones where he ballhoged and took shot off dribble. ( unlike everything we saw from Curry at college ).

We see pattern with ball dominant players who refuse to give up ball, even top 5 players (Harden, Lebron ) and Westbrook ( top 10), their teams lot of times look disinterested and with bad body language, Ibaka once said it best about Westbrook, it's not about will he get shot off or not, it's a fact that he hates to play on team where he can't even touch a ball and that it's not fair to expect high level of defense from him if he is ignored on other end.

Can Young overcome lot of things we view as negatives about his game now? Sure.
However, let's not fool ourselfs, somebody with T rex arms , no hoops, limited latheral quickness will always be negative defender at PG position. So only question is - can his offense be that good to the point where his defense can be overlooked?


I personally don't think it can, i view him as better passing, much less athletic Lillard. He just loves to take awful shots.

It's also understanding the role he was in at OK, his coach says if you don't shoot 20+ times a game we have no chance of winning.

That stat that AUDI posted about being double teamed 43% of the time, is crazy.

Again, pass. That same excuse was made by Westbrook fans last year. Players he got are not great, but they are not worst in the world. It's not about FGA only, it's how he would get them. Splitting double team and bricking 30 footer off dribble isn't offense.

Watch on YouTube

0:34 nobody but him touched ball whole possession -blocked airball
0:48 gets screen but goes for glory, attacks 4 defenders, misses layup, again nobody but him touched ball
0:54 - makes shot,again nobody but him touched ball whole possession
for next two possessions he plays smart and gets good looks for others
But 1:32 back at ballhoging- nobody but him touched ball
1:44 after ballhoging ,passing to nobody, he takes contested 35 foot jumpshot...

and video goes on and on and you can look it up by himself. For one month he averaged 1 turnover for 1 assist, and apart from blazing hot start of season he was medicore shooter and finisher overall.

[JBSouthpaw]

How does shooting around 50% of all FGA of a team and playing no defense at college level makes you team player?
It's basically Westbrooking just without effort on defense.

Sorry but every player ,who is PG and who thinks that half court shot with 18 sec on the clock is best shot he can get isn't high IQ player and that type of player doesn't value team concept and is insulting his teammates if he thinks that's best shot TEAM can take.

Look at best teams in two conferences right now, Celtics and Warriors. They keep moving and passing and look for best shots, even Curry , who is best shooter in history, really doesn't shoot yolo 40 footers any more, at least not in playoffs.

I do belive that Trae can be good shooter on team that can give him good looks, however let's not act like he actually plays that way. Most of shots he took are ones where he ballhoged and took shot off dribble. ( unlike everything we saw from Curry at college ).

We see pattern with ball dominant players who refuse to give up ball, even top 5 players (Harden, Lebron ) and Westbrook ( top 10), their teams lot of times look disinterested and with bad body language, Ibaka once said it best about Westbrook, it's not about will he get shot off or not, it's a fact that he hates to play on team where he can't even touch a ball and that it's not fair to expect high level of defense from him if he is ignored on other end.

Can Young overcome lot of things we view as negatives about his game now? Sure.
However, let's not fool ourselfs, somebody with T rex arms , no hoops, limited latheral quickness will always be negative defender at PG position. So only question is - can his offense be that good to the point where his defense can be overlooked?


I personally don't think it can, i view him as better passing, much less athletic Lillard. He just loves to take awful shots.

It's also understanding the role he was in at OK, his coach says if you don't shoot 20+ times a game we have no chance of winning.

That stat that AUDI posted about being double teamed 43% of the time, is crazy.

Again, pass. That same excuse was made by Westbrook fans last year. Players he got are not great, but they are not worst in the world. It's not about FGA only, it's how he would get them. Splitting double team and bricking 30 footer off dribble isn't offense.
.....

I'd love to get Westbrook! You can't take 1 section of film like that. So if I go get a clip of Trae where he goes 3pt, assist, 3pt, Assit. it would cancel your video.
He's not going to play like that in the NBA, now I do question his athleticism and lack of defense, and I've been more partial to Sexton, but at 6 we might have to take that chance rather than more of a role player.

[OrlChamps2030]

How does shooting around 50% of all FGA of a team and playing no defense at college level makes you team player?
It's basically Westbrooking just without effort on defense.

Sorry but every player ,who is PG and who thinks that half court shot with 18 sec on the clock is best shot he can get isn't high IQ player and that type of player doesn't value team concept and is insulting his teammates if he thinks that's best shot TEAM can take.

Look at best teams in two conferences right now, Celtics and Warriors. They keep moving and passing and look for best shots, even Curry , who is best shooter in history, really doesn't shoot yolo 40 footers any more, at least not in playoffs.

I do belive that Trae can be good shooter on team that can give him good looks, however let's not act like he actually plays that way. Most of shots he took are ones where he ballhoged and took shot off dribble. ( unlike everything we saw from Curry at college ).

We see pattern with ball dominant players who refuse to give up ball, even top 5 players (Harden, Lebron ) and Westbrook ( top 10), their teams lot of times look disinterested and with bad body language, Ibaka once said it best about Westbrook, it's not about will he get shot off or not, it's a fact that he hates to play on team where he can't even touch a ball and that it's not fair to expect high level of defense from him if he is ignored on other end.

Can Young overcome lot of things we view as negatives about his game now? Sure.
However, let's not fool ourselfs, somebody with T rex arms , no hoops, limited latheral quickness will always be negative defender at PG position. So only question is - can his offense be that good to the point where his defense can be overlooked?


I personally don't think it can, i view him as better passing, much less athletic Lillard. He just loves to take awful shots.

It's also understanding the role he was in at OK, his coach says if you don't shoot 20+ times a game we have no chance of winning.

That stat that AUDI posted about being double teamed 43% of the time, is crazy.

Again, pass. That same excuse was made by Westbrook fans last year. Players he got are not great, but they are not worst in the world. It's not about FGA only, it's how he would get them. Splitting double team and bricking 30 footer off dribble isn't offense.

Watch on YouTube

0:34 nobody but him touched ball whole possession -blocked airball
0:48 gets screen but goes for glory, attacks 4 defenders, misses layup, again nobody but him touched ball
0:54 - makes shot,again nobody but him touched ball whole possession
for next two possessions he plays smart and gets good looks for others
But 1:32 back at ballhoging- nobody but him touched ball
1:44 after ballhoging ,passing to nobody, he takes contested 35 foot jumpshot...

and video goes on and on and you can look it up by himself. For one month he averaged 1 turnover for 1 assist, and apart from blazing hot start of season he was medicore shooter and finisher overall.

You’re drawing too many comparison between college and the NBA, and it just doesn’t work that way. In the NBA even the worst players can catch a pass, make a shot, cut to the basket. The same can’t be said for college ball.

[BadMofoPimp]

If the Magic land Trae, all those Young lovers will turn to hate once a ball hogging chucker lets loose with less ball movement. I hope he could prove us wrong, but if he chucks away like that in College while not sharing the ball on possessions . . .

[GatorbaitDD]

There are many areas to knock Young as a prospect. That said, you're not getting anyone at #6 that possess the same level of "boom" as Young. I watched him play a lot at Oklahoma. His team was absolutely horrendous. At the point guard spot, you're typically looking for a guy that can make his teammates better. Young does not excel in this this area right now, but that does not mean he cannot develop his IQ to make better decisions with the ball. Sometimes as fans we forget that these kids are 18-19 years old and have a ton of growth ahead of them. The lack of athleticism is concerning, but there have been other guys with a similar athletic profile that succeeded in the NBA.

I really like the idea of Young on the Magic roster, but it would be a risky pick without a doubt.

[Audi]

How does shooting around 50% of all FGA of a team and playing no defense at college level makes you team player?
It's basically Westbrooking just without effort on defense.

Sorry but every player ,who is PG and who thinks that half court shot with 18 sec on the clock is best shot he can get isn't high IQ player and that type of player doesn't value team concept and is insulting his teammates if he thinks that's best shot TEAM can take.

Look at best teams in two conferences right now, Celtics and Warriors. They keep moving and passing and look for best shots, even Curry , who is best shooter in history, really doesn't shoot yolo 40 footers any more

Yes, they do move the ball. They move the ball to other capable shooters. If Curry were on the NBA team equivalent to Oklahoma, Youd absolutely see him shooting 50%+ of the shots and even jacking up 40 footers. Hell, I would probably want that in this team right now.