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Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Julyan

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Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul 

Post#421 » by MagicMatic » Sun Jul 8, 2018 5:41 pm

OrlandoDream wrote:
PrimeShaq wrote:
PennytoShaq wrote:Man people overreact so hard here. I truly thought the roster was finalized and done by how much complaining was happening. I am thinking thats not the case.

The funny part is a lot of this emotion seems to hinge on IT, a guy most people would have considered to be an afterthought just 1 month ago.

Unreal.

Well, that's your opinion, and if I felt the same way I wouldn't consider this trade to really be a big deal either. But, I feel that this trade is essentially Weltman doubling down on the starters from last year which is why its bigger for me than just what appears on the surface.

I think why IT would have been considered an afterthought a month ago is because most of us were hoping that draft day trades were going to be made after a year of evaluating. Whether that would have been to move up and get a guy like SGA or Simmons or by trading some of the players we already have for more cap space to sign a guy this summer. When that didn't happen, yes most of us looked to IT as an upgrade but that was never the first option.

Did you bug the draft room? We dont know if they tried and maybe failed or teams wanted too much to trade up and get an extra pick. Cracking into the top 10 this year was going to cost us next years 1st at least based on the asking price of most teams.

I have no doubt Weltman tried but teams wanted too much. Also this draft is not big on talented PG. Aside from Trae and maybe SGA there is no other PG in this draft that was gonna crack the starting spot from day 1 from DJ.

The draft was not the place for us to solve our PG woes this year. Next we tried free agency and would of prob gotten IT but that medicals were bad and his hip doesnt look good. Not smart to give our entire mid level to a guy that is not 100% coming off hip surgery. Now we look into trades, which he did by acquiring grant SHORT TERM.

Weltman tried all avenues to upgrade our PG via draft, then free agency, and now trade. You cant fix the entire roster in one offseason. He saw that there just wasnt an opportunity to upgrade right now in this current market so we will stand still until something else comes up. Better then wait and be smart then make a knee-jerk decision that could set the franchise back for years. See Rob Hennigans history here.


I agree with almost everything except the bolded. They essentially watched players fall to them in the draft and chose the ones they liked as opposed to addressing the glaring point guard need. I find it difficult to believe they couldn’t have traded up for one of the point guards taken directly 5-6 spots before Frazier.

Orlando was going to be bad this year regardless. Drafting a promising point guard on a rookie deal, to grow next to our young bigs, would have been a great move. Didn’t happen and should have. This trade discussion is just sour grapes because of missing out in the draft and Orlando (expectedly) missing out in free agency. It’s just not meeting expectations that should have been addressed prior.

That being said, Im ok with Grant because I don’t realistically see how any of our trash could be traded for treasure. Hopefully they swing a Vuc deal so people can step off the ledge.
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Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul 

Post#422 » by PrimeThyme » Sun Jul 8, 2018 5:45 pm

OrlandoDream wrote:
PrimeShaq wrote:
OrlandoDream wrote:Did you bug the draft room? We dont know if they tried and maybe failed or teams wanted too much to trade up and get an extra pick. Cracking into the top 10 this year was going to cost us next years 1st at least based on the asking price of most teams.

I have no doubt Weltman tried but teams wanted too much. Also this draft is not big on talented PG. Aside from Trae and maybe SGA there is no other PG in this draft that was gonna crack the starting spot from day 1 from DJ.

The draft was not the place for us to solve our PG woes this year. Next we tried free agency and would of prob gotten IT but that medicals were bad and his hip doesnt look good. Not smart to give our entire mid level to a guy that is not 100% coming off hip surgery. Now we look into trades, which he did by acquiring grant SHORT TERM.

Weltman tried all avenues to upgrade our PG via draft, then free agency, and now trade. You cant fix the entire roster in one offseason. He saw that there just wasnt an opportunity to upgrade right now in this current market so we will stand still until something else comes up. Better then wait and be smart then make a knee-jerk decision that could set the franchise back for years. See Rob Hennigans history here.

Lol so you asked me if I bugged the draft room but then claim this:
Weltman tried all avenues to upgrade our PG via draft, then free agency, and now trade.[/spoiler]

None of us know one way or the other what happend on draft night, the only thing we can go off of is that no trades were made. Sure trades had to be floated around but that doesn't mean they were ever serious. There were point guards outside of the top 10 to be had in this draft.

\

You've said this now in multiple threads and I would like to see a source for it, becuase as of now I have no idea how you would know that that is the reason we didnt sign him. I have not seen that reported.

Scott Anez tweeted about it then Josh said we never got to negotiating a contract. IT would have been perfect for this currently built roster with his scoring ability. What other possible reason do you think we didnt even get to negotiate a contract besides the fact that we saw his medical records and it just did not look great.

If his medical cleared, we would have made the move. Both sides were interesting in reaching a deal but too many red flags on the injured hip. Look it up. It makes sense. What else could have prevented the signing?

If you actually believe Scott Anez has sources I don't know what to tell you.. He has already been exposed with this whole IT debacle as he claimed multiple times that the deal was finished and even said that the years and dollar amount was already agreed upon when they never even started negotiating.

Im thinking that WeHam was sold on the idea that DJ can be our starter. Clifford is too. Thats why the deal wasn't done. IT was only coming here if he was guranteed to start.
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Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul 

Post#423 » by MagicFan101 » Sun Jul 8, 2018 5:45 pm

ESPN Trade Grade:


Orlando Magic: B


So if Biyombo is the better player and makes only slightly more money, why would the Magic make this trade?

With neither player likely to play for them this season, I think the center component was actually just a way to generate the matching salary necessary to take Grant from the Bulls. Because Orlando does not have a trade exception, the team would have been unable to take on Grant's $2.6 million salary without sending anything in return. If Chicago's goal was to wipe out Grant's money completely, taking back the likes of Khem Birch or Wesley Iwundu might have been a nonstarter, or the Magic might have preferred to hang on to those players. (Orlando chose to guarantee Birch's contract last month even after drafting Mo Bamba as a backup center, which pushed Biyombo down the depth chart.)

For a team with only D.J. Augustin on the depth chart at point guard, Grant is an interesting addition. He handed out an impressive 8.9 assists per 100 team plays last season, solidly better than the average point guard (7.6), and is a passable defender with good size for the position. If Grant can get back to the 36.6 percent he shot from 3-point range in 2016-17 rather than last year's 32.4 percent, he could be a solid backup option and a fringe starter.

It's better for the Magic to be taking chances on low-priced former first-round picks like that than sending them away, as has happened with Maurice Harkless and Shabazz Napier in the past.
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Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul 

Post#424 » by OrlandoDream » Sun Jul 8, 2018 5:46 pm

MagicMatic wrote:
OrlandoDream wrote:
PrimeShaq wrote:Well, that's your opinion, and if I felt the same way I wouldn't consider this trade to really be a big deal either. But, I feel that this trade is essentially Weltman doubling down on the starters from last year which is why its bigger for me than just what appears on the surface.

I think why IT would have been considered an afterthought a month ago is because most of us were hoping that draft day trades were going to be made after a year of evaluating. Whether that would have been to move up and get a guy like SGA or Simmons or by trading some of the players we already have for more cap space to sign a guy this summer. When that didn't happen, yes most of us looked to IT as an upgrade but that was never the first option.

Did you bug the draft room? We dont know if they tried and maybe failed or teams wanted too much to trade up and get an extra pick. Cracking into the top 10 this year was going to cost us next years 1st at least based on the asking price of most teams.

I have no doubt Weltman tried but teams wanted too much. Also this draft is not big on talented PG. Aside from Trae and maybe SGA there is no other PG in this draft that was gonna crack the starting spot from day 1 from DJ.

The draft was not the place for us to solve our PG woes this year. Next we tried free agency and would of prob gotten IT but that medicals were bad and his hip doesnt look good. Not smart to give our entire mid level to a guy that is not 100% coming off hip surgery. Now we look into trades, which he did by acquiring grant SHORT TERM.

Weltman tried all avenues to upgrade our PG via draft, then free agency, and now trade. You cant fix the entire roster in one offseason. He saw that there just wasnt an opportunity to upgrade right now in this current market so we will stand still until something else comes up. Better then wait and be smart then make a knee-jerk decision that could set the franchise back for years. See Rob Hennigans history here.


I agree with almost everything except the bolded. They essentially watched players fall to them in the draft and chose the ones they liked as opposed to addressing the glaring point guard need. I find it difficult to believe they couldn’t have traded up for one of the point guards taken directly 5-6 spots before Frazier.

Orlando was going to be bad this year regardless. Drafting a promising point guard on a rookie deal, to grow next to our young bigs, would have been a great move. Didn’t happen and should have. This trade discussion is just sour grapes because of missing out in the draft and Orlando (expectedly) missing out in free agency. It’s just not meeting expectations that should have been addressed prior.

That being said, Im ok with Grant because I don’t realistically see how any of our trash could be traded for treasure. Hopefully they swing a Vuc deal so people can step off the ledge.

Outside the top 10 only other PG in the draft that we maybe could have made a move for were Brunson, Holiday, and maybe the Okobo kid. Im pretty sure our FO did our research on those two and if they thought either would have turned out into a rotation PG then we would have traded for it. It would not have been hard to get Brunson from Dallas who already has DSJr.

There is no guarantee that either of those 3 PG will be better then Grant. I also think that weltman and co dont want an inexperienced PG. PG is the hardest and longest position to learn in the NBA and bringing in a rookie you know its going to be 2-3 years until they show their true value. I dont know if our FO wants to wait that long with Clif hiring and weltman making all these moves.

I think we are trying to acquire or sign and already established PG in the league.
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Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul 

Post#425 » by OrlandoDream » Sun Jul 8, 2018 5:47 pm

PrimeShaq wrote:
OrlandoDream wrote:
PrimeShaq wrote:Lol so you asked me if I bugged the draft room but then claim this:\

You've said this now in multiple threads and I would like to see a source for it, becuase as of now I have no idea how you would know that that is the reason we didnt sign him. I have not seen that reported.

Scott Anez tweeted about it then Josh said we never got to negotiating a contract. IT would have been perfect for this currently built roster with his scoring ability. What other possible reason do you think we didnt even get to negotiate a contract besides the fact that we saw his medical records and it just did not look great.

If his medical cleared, we would have made the move. Both sides were interesting in reaching a deal but too many red flags on the injured hip. Look it up. It makes sense. What else could have prevented the signing?

If you actually believe Scott Anez has sources I don't know what to tell you.. He has already been exposed with this whole IT debacle as he claimed multiple times that the deal was finished and even said that the years and dollar amount was already agreed upon when they never even started negotiating.

Im thinking that WeHam was sold on the idea that DJ can be our starter. Clifford is too. Thats why the deal wasn't done. IT was only coming here if he was guranteed to start.


I highly doubt that our FO chose DJ over IT if the hip was not a problem. There is no proof of that either. All speculation.
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Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul 

Post#426 » by PrimeThyme » Sun Jul 8, 2018 5:55 pm

OrlandoDream wrote:
PrimeShaq wrote:
OrlandoDream wrote:Scott Anez tweeted about it then Josh said we never got to negotiating a contract. IT would have been perfect for this currently built roster with his scoring ability. What other possible reason do you think we didnt even get to negotiate a contract besides the fact that we saw his medical records and it just did not look great.

If his medical cleared, we would have made the move. Both sides were interesting in reaching a deal but too many red flags on the injured hip. Look it up. It makes sense. What else could have prevented the signing?

If you actually believe Scott Anez has sources I don't know what to tell you.. He has already been exposed with this whole IT debacle as he claimed multiple times that the deal was finished and even said that the years and dollar amount was already agreed upon when they never even started negotiating.

Im thinking that WeHam was sold on the idea that DJ can be our starter. Clifford is too. Thats why the deal wasn't done. IT was only coming here if he was guranteed to start.


I highly doubt that our FO chose DJ over IT if the hip was not a problem. There is no proof of that either. All speculation.

That's why I clearly stated that its my opinion. You are stating things as if its sourced information when its not. This is all speculation like you said. Based off of how Weltman and Clifford talk about DJ it seems that they see him as a starter which is why they choose to trade for a backup instead of signing a different starter.
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Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul 

Post#427 » by drsd » Sun Jul 8, 2018 5:59 pm

MagicFan101 wrote:The off-season is not over.


In glory's name: I hope this is correct.



..
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Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul 

Post#428 » by drsd » Sun Jul 8, 2018 6:00 pm

OrlandoDream wrote:The way the roster stands as of TODAY, obviously Dj will start. Remember that unless we make a crazy trade, whatever PG we acquire this summer is NOT going to be our PG of the future.



Mr. Thomas, this means you.


..
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Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul 

Post#429 » by zaymon » Sun Jul 8, 2018 6:01 pm

There is little chance second rounders become rotational players let alone starters why would Weltman give additional assets for a potential reserve pg in a draft ? DJ is a 9th pick for example he was taken before Lopez, Ibaka, Batum, Hill he had more potential being drafted than any of the players we could realistically draft. Progressing as a pg is so unpredictable thats why so many undrafted players find success
Bold Predictions:
1. Deandre Ayton biggest disappointment of 2018 draft.
2. Nick Nurse becomes Orlando Magic Head Coach. (15.04.2018)
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Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul 

Post#430 » by MagicStarwipe » Sun Jul 8, 2018 6:01 pm

Birch deserves to play. They're going to bury him again for inferior players with bigger names and contracts.
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Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul 

Post#431 » by OrlandoDream » Sun Jul 8, 2018 6:02 pm

PrimeShaq wrote:
OrlandoDream wrote:
PrimeShaq wrote:If you actually believe Scott Anez has sources I don't know what to tell you.. He has already been exposed with this whole IT debacle as he claimed multiple times that the deal was finished and even said that the years and dollar amount was already agreed upon when they never even started negotiating.

Im thinking that WeHam was sold on the idea that DJ can be our starter. Clifford is too. Thats why the deal wasn't done. IT was only coming here if he was guranteed to start.


I highly doubt that our FO chose DJ over IT if the hip was not a problem. There is no proof of that either. All speculation.

That's why I clearly stated that its my opinion. You are stating things as if its sourced information when its not. This is all speculation like you said. Based off of how Weltman and Clifford talk about DJ it seems that they see him as a starter which is why they choose to trade for a backup instead of signing a different starter.

Short term but not long term. They know that DJ is not a long term starting option. I highly doubt we chose DJ as our starter over IT if the hip wasnt a problem. Weltman is smarter then that.
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Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul 

Post#432 » by Knightro » Sun Jul 8, 2018 6:09 pm

MagicMatic wrote:I agree with almost everything except the bolded. They essentially watched players fall to them in the draft and chose the ones they liked as opposed to addressing the glaring point guard need. I find it difficult to believe they couldn’t have traded up for one of the point guards taken directly 5-6 spots before Frazier.


Meh. All of those guys - Okobo, Carter, Brunson and Graham - project to be backup players just like Frazier.

I’m just not really stressing picking a backup wing instead of a backup point.

It’s still a half measure all the same.
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Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul 

Post#433 » by MagicMatic » Sun Jul 8, 2018 6:18 pm

Knightro wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:I agree with almost everything except the bolded. They essentially watched players fall to them in the draft and chose the ones they liked as opposed to addressing the glaring point guard need. I find it difficult to believe they couldn’t have traded up for one of the point guards taken directly 5-6 spots before Frazier.


Meh. All of those guys - Okobo, Carter, Brunson and Graham - project to be backup players just like Frazier.

I’m just not really stressing picking a backup wing instead of a backup point.

It’s still a half measure all the same.


Maybe. I’m just pointing out that this move (like the IT rumors) were just a save face move by management to address what they couldn’t accomplish in the draft. I’m much happier with the Grant result than IT or not addressing it at all. Still would rather have taken a swing on one of those underrated guards in the draft, but I can live with it.
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Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul 

Post#434 » by Nyce_1 » Sun Jul 8, 2018 6:29 pm

Knightro wrote:I’m really curious if the front office/coaching staff genuinely thinks Grant could be a starting PG or not.

With him still being on his rookie deal, I wonder if they think he has untapped potential still.

Probably doesn’t at 26, but you never know.

Cliff has that wait and see approach. Wants to get Grant here and see what he can/can't do, before slotting him in the depth chart.

And at 25, I think he doesn't have much potential, but there's still the possibility something clicks and he gets a tad bit better. Only 3 years in this league, and at the hardest position to play. PGs take longer to develop, so hopefully we found a quality rotation player.
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Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul 

Post#435 » by Magic#1 » Sun Jul 8, 2018 6:32 pm

j-ragg wrote:They’re going to evaluate the same god damn team again this year.


Hopefully Clifford is giving coach speak, but if it's true, then we are making a big mistake. I would legitimately ask them what they see on this roster that could one day make it contend for a championship. Clifford has talked about the injuries last year a lot, but even with a fully healthy team are we still are a fringe playoff team at best. Are we really better than Detroit? Milwaukee? Just look at the east still.
Playoff locks: Boston, Philly, Toronto
Almost locks: Indiana, Washington, Milwaukee
That leaves two open spots and teams like Detroit, Miami and Charlotte (with Kemba) competing. This team is NOT worth keeping together to compete at that level. Vooch, Fournier and Ross are all god players. Trade them for the best assets we can get. Let AG run nuts and see how good he can be and let him, JI and Bamba build chemistry.
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Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul 

Post#436 » by MagicFan101 » Sun Jul 8, 2018 6:33 pm

MagicMatic wrote:
Knightro wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:I agree with almost everything except the bolded. They essentially watched players fall to them in the draft and chose the ones they liked as opposed to addressing the glaring point guard need. I find it difficult to believe they couldn’t have traded up for one of the point guards taken directly 5-6 spots before Frazier.


Meh. All of those guys - Okobo, Carter, Brunson and Graham - project to be backup players just like Frazier.

I’m just not really stressing picking a backup wing instead of a backup point.

It’s still a half measure all the same.


Maybe. I’m just pointing out that this move (like the IT rumors) were just a save face move by management to address what they couldn’t accomplish in the draft. I’m much happier with the Grant result than IT or not addressing it at all. Still would rather have taken a swing on one of those underrated guards in the draft, but I can live with it.


You’re pointing out a bitter, shortsighted opinion... not reality.

Mozgov + an expiring PG contract offers (slightly) more flexibility than Biz + a late draft pick PG. Nothing groundbreaking but there is more wiggle room in trades or 2019 cap space.

Grant is still a relatively young yet experienced recent 1st round PG. Along with the monetary value of an expiring contract, he offers about as much on the court hope you could have for those late PGs in the draft.

While marginal or perhaps even negligible, this is a net-positive trade with a lot of time to go before opening night and yet another moveable asset.
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Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul 

Post#437 » by WeAreVenom » Sun Jul 8, 2018 6:37 pm

This trade sucks..............not bad for the team, just sucks in general.

EDIT: I apologize for the pessimism, however, I had my eyes set on Kemba.
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Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul 

Post#438 » by MagicMatic » Sun Jul 8, 2018 6:39 pm

MagicFan101 wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
Knightro wrote:
Meh. All of those guys - Okobo, Carter, Brunson and Graham - project to be backup players just like Frazier.

I’m just not really stressing picking a backup wing instead of a backup point.

It’s still a half measure all the same.


Maybe. I’m just pointing out that this move (like the IT rumors) were just a save face move by management to address what they couldn’t accomplish in the draft. I’m much happier with the Grant result than IT or not addressing it at all. Still would rather have taken a swing on one of those underrated guards in the draft, but I can live with it.


You’re pointing out a bitter, shortsighted opinion... not reality.

Mozgov + an expiring PG contract offers (slightly) more flexibility than Biz + a late draft pick PG. Nothing groundbreaking but there is more wiggle room in trades or 2019 cap space.

Grant is still a relatively young yet experienced recent 1st round PG. Along with the monetary value of an expiring contract, he offers about as much on the court hope you could have for those late PGs in the draft.

While marginal or perhaps even negligible, this is a net-positive trade with a lot of time to go before opening night and yet another moveable asset.


Bitter? Short-sighted?

I think the Grant deal is perfectly fine.

Drafting a younger point guard on a rookie deal without giving up assets is better. That’s not an argument. Splitting the difference between Grant and a majority of those starters is arguable at best.
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Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul 

Post#439 » by The Effect » Sun Jul 8, 2018 6:49 pm

For people complain we didn't draft a phone in the 2nd, weltman was going to, until Charlotte traded ahead of us and took our guy, our only option was to trade up a few spots, and in that case everyone would of complained that we traded up (likely giving up both our 2nds)for a player "that would of been there at our pick"

Also, briscoe is basically our 2nd round pg rookie, and has all the potential of any of those guys
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Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul 

Post#440 » by bigpimpatl » Sun Jul 8, 2018 7:01 pm

Orl_Magic wrote:Mozy is a work horse on defense and on offense he can set picks, grab offensive rebounds, roll hard to the rim and can pass. Also has playoff experience.


if you knew anything about Mozgov you'd know he only played 31 games last season. that's how terrible he is. At least Biz he played every single game and gave decent production.

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