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Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul

Posted: Sun Jul 8, 2018 9:15 pm
by JC11
basketballRob wrote:It was cool how they ran the offense through Isaac in the first summer league game. Last summer league I think he got most of his points from offensive rebounds. During the regular season he would go long stretches without ever touching the ball. I hope they run the offense through him for the entire year. He's probably our best player now so let him have the ball.

hey friend, I do not mean to single you out here but it's a perfect example of a point I've been trying to make, so had to take this opportunity. I'm sorry for that.

the bolded statement - specifically comments such as "JI (insert latest rookie here) is our BEST player now, so give him the keys" is just so factually incorrect. on literally every measurable scale, this is not true ('potential' is not tangible).
JI doesn't have one skill that is better than anyone else on the team, let alone a combination. guys like Fournier, Vuc, AG, Simmons are all superior in every facet, not to mention the innate qualities you gain with experience.

I'm not for a second saying that JI is no good, but when you say comments like this and others like 'Briscoe will be our starting PG' - it's actually just infuriating because it's just completely unrealistic and more importantly simply untrue. it's naive or dumb - and I mean that with the greatest respect possible.

Fournier and Vuc are our best players right now. fact.
that's something that I think is better to deal with and try and accept, as it will lead to better discussion here.

P.S. this is coming from someone who hates buddy ball and wants Fournier/Vuc traded (assuming there's a market).

Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul

Posted: Sun Jul 8, 2018 9:30 pm
by Def Swami
cedric76 wrote:You guys r so short sighted

Mo isn’t ready to play more than 20 min per, so this is why we won’t trade Vucevic

We’ll get our starting pg next summer when mo Isaac and ag r ready to compete for a playoff spot

This year cliff will make sure we play hard with the guys we have, if we make the playoff great, if we finish 10th it s ok.

Weham r building a young, long, athletic team that can play great team basketball

Have faith, the future is bright. You have to learn to walk before attempting to run

Go magic


Image

Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul

Posted: Sun Jul 8, 2018 9:55 pm
by PrimeThyme
JC11 wrote:
basketballRob wrote:It was cool how they ran the offense through Isaac in the first summer league game. Last summer league I think he got most of his points from offensive rebounds. During the regular season he would go long stretches without ever touching the ball. I hope they run the offense through him for the entire year. He's probably our best player now so let him have the ball.

hey friend, I do not mean to single you out here but it's a perfect example of a point I've been trying to make, so had to take this opportunity. I'm sorry for that.

the bolded statement - specifically comments such as "JI (insert latest rookie here) is our BEST player now, so give him the keys" is just so factually incorrect. on literally every measurable scale, this is not true ('potential' is not tangible).
JI doesn't have one skill that is better than anyone else on the team, let alone a combination. guys like Fournier, Vuc, AG, Simmons are all superior in every facet, not to mention the innate qualities you gain with experience.

I'm not for a second saying that JI is no good, but when you say comments like this and others like 'Briscoe will be our starting PG' - it's actually just infuriating because it's just completely unrealistic and more importantly simply untrue. it's naive or dumb - and I mean that with the greatest respect possible.

Fournier and Vuc are our best players right now. fact.
that's something that I think is better to deal with and try and accept, as it will lead to better discussion here.

P.S. this is coming from someone who hates buddy ball and wants Fournier/Vuc traded (assuming there's a market).

I don't think its a stretch to say that he will easily be our best defender next year. He was last year in the limited time he played and now he will have more experience and size.

Offensively, there's really no question that he will still be raw and while I do think he will be much improved, he is still nowhere near ready to be a top 2 option on an offense. I feel that he is way to valuable as a defender not to be in our starting lineup next year though. We don't have to ask him to do a whole lot on the offensive end but defensively we can cause havoc with him. Ross is best suited coming off the bench to add a scoring punch anyways imo.

Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul

Posted: Sun Jul 8, 2018 10:04 pm
by The Effect
Not sure if this has been talked about in this thread (not reading back 25 pages), but does anyone else think that this move was made to help this team look more and more like Hammonds Bucks teams? By that i mean, i think they envision either Bamba or Isaac to be their Giannis type of Unicorn. Gordon to play the Jabri role, of being the slightly undersized young-vet scoring PF, and now they have their version of Brogdan in grant, which is a long, defensive PG with good passing ability?

In MIL, they ran the offense through Giannis and Middleton, so if say Isaac develops into that player (HUGE IF), all we would need from our PG is to be solid, play good defense, make the right passes when needed and make a shot when called upon.

I mean when you look at just their numbers in games that they started, Brogdon and Grant are very similar
13ppg, 3.4 apg. 3.6 rpg, 1.2spg 48/35/91 shooting
vs
9.8ppg, 6.3apg, 4.0rpg, 1.0spg, 42/37/82

Maybe thats how WeHam view the PG position, unlike many of us who are looking for a scoring, high usage PG?

Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul

Posted: Sun Jul 8, 2018 10:10 pm
by The Effect
PrimeShaq wrote:Offensively, there's really no question that he will still be raw and while I do think he will be much improved, he is still nowhere near ready to be a top 2 option on an offense. I feel that he is way to valuable as a defender not to be in our starting lineup next year though. We don't have to ask him to do a whole lot on the offensive end but defensively we can cause havoc with him. Ross is best suited coming off the bench to add a scoring punch anyways imo.

OFF TOPIC.......
As much as i loved Isaac offensive game and aggression in the SL game the other day, hes still doing the thing that annoys me most of all from him. You can tell hes improved ALOT from last year at almost every (which is very encouraging), BUT hes still biting for every pump fake and leaves his feet every time. Sure he has the length to make up for it against summer league guys, but thats not gonna work when lining up against guys like Kevin Durant, giannis etc
Someone needs to teach him that he has a 7'3-7'5 wingspan, he doesnt need to jump to make players adjust their shot, just put your hand up and hold your position

Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul

Posted: Sun Jul 8, 2018 10:12 pm
by MagicMatic
Def Swami wrote:
cedric76 wrote:You guys r so short sighted

Mo isn’t ready to play more than 20 min per, so this is why we won’t trade Vucevic

We’ll get our starting pg next summer when mo Isaac and ag r ready to compete for a playoff spot

This year cliff will make sure we play hard with the guys we have, if we make the playoff great, if we finish 10th it s ok.

Weham r building a young, long, athletic team that can play great team basketball

Have faith, the future is bright. You have to learn to walk before attempting to run

Go magic


Image


Image

Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul

Posted: Sun Jul 8, 2018 10:18 pm
by basketballRob
JC11 wrote:
basketballRob wrote:It was cool how they ran the offense through Isaac in the first summer league game. Last summer league I think he got most of his points from offensive rebounds. During the regular season he would go long stretches without ever touching the ball. I hope they run the offense through him for the entire year. He's probably our best player now so let him have the ball.

hey friend, I do not mean to single you out here but it's a perfect example of a point I've been trying to make, so had to take this opportunity. I'm sorry for that.

the bolded statement - specifically comments such as "JI (insert latest rookie here) is our BEST player now, so give him the keys" is just so factually incorrect. on literally every measurable scale, this is not true ('potential' is not tangible).
JI doesn't have one skill that is better than anyone else on the team, let alone a combination. guys like Fournier, Vuc, AG, Simmons are all superior in every facet, not to mention the innate qualities you gain with experience.

I'm not for a second saying that JI is no good, but when you say comments like this and others like 'Briscoe will be our starting PG' - it's actually just infuriating because it's just completely unrealistic and more importantly simply untrue. it's naive or dumb - and I mean that with the greatest respect possible.

Fournier and Vuc are our best players right now. fact.
that's something that I think is better to deal with and try and accept, as it will lead to better discussion here.

P.S. this is coming from someone who hates buddy ball and wants Fournier/Vuc traded (assuming there's a market).


They're the best players based on the opportunities that they've been granted. Fournier is slightly better than mediocre, he has a minus 4 offense to defensive rating for his career. Vuc has one foot out the door and will probably never start again after this season. It's times with give more opportunities to other guys.

Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul

Posted: Sun Jul 8, 2018 10:22 pm
by woosah
The Effect wrote:Not sure if this has been talked about in this thread (not reading back 25 pages), but does anyone else think that this move was made to help this team look more and more like Hammonds Bucks teams? By that i mean, i think they envision either Bamba or Isaac to be their Giannis type of Unicorn. Gordon to play the Jabri role, of being the slightly undersized young-vet scoring PF, and now they have their version of Brogdan in grant, which is a long, defensive PG with good passing ability?

In MIL, they ran the offense through Giannis and Middleton, so if say Isaac develops into that player (HUGE IF), all we would need from our PG is to be solid, play good defense, make the right passes when needed and make a shot when called upon.

I mean when you look at just their numbers in games that they started, Brogdon and Grant are very similar
13ppg, 3.4 apg. 3.6 rpg, 1.2spg 48/35/91 shooting
vs
9.8ppg, 6.3apg, 4.0rpg, 1.0spg, 42/37/82

Maybe thats how WeHam view the PG position, unlike many of us who are looking for a scoring, high usage PG?



Probably should be a thread of its own if we don't do anymore transactions.

Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul

Posted: Sun Jul 8, 2018 10:35 pm
by cedric76
MagicMatic wrote:
Def Swami wrote:
cedric76 wrote:You guys r so short sighted

Mo isn’t ready to play more than 20 min per, so this is why we won’t trade Vucevic

We’ll get our starting pg next summer when mo Isaac and ag r ready to compete for a playoff spot

This year cliff will make sure we play hard with the guys we have, if we make the playoff great, if we finish 10th it s ok.

Weham r building a young, long, athletic team that can play great team basketball

Have faith, the future is bright. You have to learn to walk before attempting to run

Go magic


Mo will get injured if you don’t bring him along slowly.

You can develop guys in practice

Image


Image

Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul

Posted: Sun Jul 8, 2018 10:44 pm
by Spinedoc666
The Charlton Heston is nice, but loving the Jeremiah Johnson one with Redford. Great movie, one of my favorites, but you guys might be showing your age. :D

Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul

Posted: Sun Jul 8, 2018 11:02 pm
by PennytoShaq
j-ragg wrote:No one thinks the team is done trading until the deadline.

But you just acquired two below average point guards, and the other one is the only one who’s proven he’s worth a damn on offense. And Weltman was just gushing about DJ in a press conference. Does anyone think our point guard rotation isn’t set?


We still have an MLE to hand out. It could very well be leverage. We shall see. Regardless, I don’t see the need to to flip out. Its not like we are contending this year. We have a potential SF/PF/C for years to come if it works out and all we really need is a PG. That’s not bad considering how god awful our team was last year.

Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul

Posted: Sun Jul 8, 2018 11:09 pm
by woosah
A bet there was a rush of season ticket renewals after this came through.

Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul

Posted: Sun Jul 8, 2018 11:23 pm
by PennytoShaq
I still think we could end up signing IT. This is a guy who has a strong history of injury. Briscoe looks like a 2 way guy and Grant looks like a guy who can battle DJ for the backup job.

I also think just wanting Vuc to be traded is a mistake, and I want the guy moved too. He is a very valuable expiring for us next season. If we move him for an expiring or some future picks, that is fine, but I’d personally really like to have 25 mill in space next summer from him and Ross.

That can get us a guy like Kemba Walker here.

Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul

Posted: Sun Jul 8, 2018 11:25 pm
by TDJacksonville
i think Mozgov will help balance out the center Rotation for when we face real centers.
vuc maybe gets traded around the deadline for a team needing a push into the playoffs. would be good if we could ship him of for a few 2nds at this point.

Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul

Posted: Mon Jul 9, 2018 12:17 am
by Solid Snake
Evaluation year part 2?

Sent from my Redmi 5 Plus using RealGM mobile app

Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul

Posted: Mon Jul 9, 2018 12:32 am
by The Effect
woosah wrote:
The Effect wrote:Not sure if this has been talked about in this thread (not reading back 25 pages), but does anyone else think that this move was made to help this team look more and more like Hammonds Bucks teams? By that i mean, i think they envision either Bamba or Isaac to be their Giannis type of Unicorn. Gordon to play the Jabri role, of being the slightly undersized young-vet scoring PF, and now they have their version of Brogdan in grant, which is a long, defensive PG with good passing ability?

In MIL, they ran the offense through Giannis and Middleton, so if say Isaac develops into that player (HUGE IF), all we would need from our PG is to be solid, play good defense, make the right passes when needed and make a shot when called upon.

I mean when you look at just their numbers in games that they started, Brogdon and Grant are very similar
13ppg, 3.4 apg. 3.6 rpg, 1.2spg 48/35/91 shooting
vs
9.8ppg, 6.3apg, 4.0rpg, 1.0spg, 42/37/82

Maybe thats how WeHam view the PG position, unlike many of us who are looking for a scoring, high usage PG?



Probably should be a thread of its own if we don't do anymore transactions.

I dont know about its own thread, but from the moves they made, seems like this is model they are going after. I mean Briscoe also fits that mold as well, as a defensive guy with a developing jumpshot and good playmaking ability. Also Devonte Graham, who was their target also seems like that kinda player as well, although as a senior, he had become a better scorer.

I wish B.I.G. was further along offensively, but seems like we are gonna try to run our offense through those guys (although bamba probably doesnt start right away if Vuc is still here), But i expect alot of Gordon\isaac with some buddy-ball as opposed to a PG powered team like we would have with a guy like IT

Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul

Posted: Mon Jul 9, 2018 12:45 am
by woosah
The Effect wrote:
woosah wrote:
The Effect wrote:Not sure if this has been talked about in this thread (not reading back 25 pages), but does anyone else think that this move was made to help this team look more and more like Hammonds Bucks teams? By that i mean, i think they envision either Bamba or Isaac to be their Giannis type of Unicorn. Gordon to play the Jabri role, of being the slightly undersized young-vet scoring PF, and now they have their version of Brogdan in grant, which is a long, defensive PG with good passing ability?

In MIL, they ran the offense through Giannis and Middleton, so if say Isaac develops into that player (HUGE IF), all we would need from our PG is to be solid, play good defense, make the right passes when needed and make a shot when called upon.

I mean when you look at just their numbers in games that they started, Brogdon and Grant are very similar
13ppg, 3.4 apg. 3.6 rpg, 1.2spg 48/35/91 shooting
vs
9.8ppg, 6.3apg, 4.0rpg, 1.0spg, 42/37/82

Maybe thats how WeHam view the PG position, unlike many of us who are looking for a scoring, high usage PG?



Probably should be a thread of its own if we don't do anymore transactions.

I dont know about its own thread, but from the moves they made, seems like this is model they are going after. I mean Briscoe also fits that mold as well, as a defensive guy with a developing jumpshot and good playmaking ability. Also Devonte Graham, who was their target also seems like that kinda player as well, although as a senior, he had become a better scorer.

I wish B.I.G. was further along offensively, but seems like we are gonna try to run our offense through those guys (although bamba probably doesnt start right away if Vuc is still here), But i expect alot of Gordon\isaac with some buddy-ball as opposed to a PG powered team like we would have with a guy like IT

I thought it may be a good discussion because many don't think it was a plan as much as Hammond getting lucky with Giannis. If that is a model is it a good model based on what MIL has been able to accomplish? Have they really been successful? (more than us I know) Is this what we should be trying to copy? Based on that, what is next for us? That type of thing. I like them but do not see championship level brewing over there in MIL. It's an interesting discussion whether people will think that is the next wave after the GSW team breaks.

Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul

Posted: Mon Jul 9, 2018 12:52 am
by The Effect
woosah wrote:
The Effect wrote:
woosah wrote:

Probably should be a thread of its own if we don't do anymore transactions.

I dont know about its own thread, but from the moves they made, seems like this is model they are going after. I mean Briscoe also fits that mold as well, as a defensive guy with a developing jumpshot and good playmaking ability. Also Devonte Graham, who was their target also seems like that kinda player as well, although as a senior, he had become a better scorer.

I wish B.I.G. was further along offensively, but seems like we are gonna try to run our offense through those guys (although bamba probably doesnt start right away if Vuc is still here), But i expect alot of Gordon\isaac with some buddy-ball as opposed to a PG powered team like we would have with a guy like IT

I thought it may be a good discussion because many don't think it was a plan as much as Hammond getting lucky with Giannis. If that is a model is it a good model based on what MIL has been able to accomplish? Have they really been successful? (more than us I know) Is this what we should be trying to copy? Based on that, what is next for us? That type of thing. I like them but do not see championship level brewing over there in MIL. It's an interesting discussion whether people will think that is the next wave after the GSW team breaks.


I think if things break right for us, that model could work for us, especially in the east where its so wide open. PHI\Bos\Tor are the main teams, with teams like Mil\was\Ind all right there, but honestly if our guys pan out, i dont see why we cant compete with any of them. I dont see a team in the east that is THAT far in front like you have in the west with the warriors\rockets and potentially the lakers depending on what lebron brings to them.

Mil could still potentially be a contender because of how much potentially they have, Giannis is still improving and probably still growing as crazy as that sounds. Middleton is probably the most underrated player in the league, Parker is a very solid young forward, but i think one of the keys is the development of Thon Maker. Im betting Hammond drafted him with the same thought process in mind that he did when we drafted bamba, a 7fter who can be a unicorn and develop into a superstar, but id say Bamba is further along already than maker is even after 2 years in the nba.

And i think it was a plan, because look at most the guys the bucks have drafted, most have these crazy wingspans, and super high potential. Not just maker and giannis, but guys like Hensen and even middleton has a 7ft wingspan i think. Weltman seemed to be trying the same thing in toronto with picks like Mr "two years away from being two years away" Bruno caboclo (7'7 wingspan)

Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul

Posted: Mon Jul 9, 2018 12:55 am
by darthmerrick
Maybe Mozgov and not Vucevic is on the move. This could be like the summer where Luke Ridnour got passed around in every trade. :nod:

Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul

Posted: Mon Jul 9, 2018 1:10 am
by woosah
The Effect wrote:
woosah wrote:
The Effect wrote:I dont know about its own thread, but from the moves they made, seems like this is model they are going after. I mean Briscoe also fits that mold as well, as a defensive guy with a developing jumpshot and good playmaking ability. Also Devonte Graham, who was their target also seems like that kinda player as well, although as a senior, he had become a better scorer.

I wish B.I.G. was further along offensively, but seems like we are gonna try to run our offense through those guys (although bamba probably doesnt start right away if Vuc is still here), But i expect alot of Gordon\isaac with some buddy-ball as opposed to a PG powered team like we would have with a guy like IT

I thought it may be a good discussion because many don't think it was a plan as much as Hammond getting lucky with Giannis. If that is a model is it a good model based on what MIL has been able to accomplish? Have they really been successful? (more than us I know) Is this what we should be trying to copy? Based on that, what is next for us? That type of thing. I like them but do not see championship level brewing over there in MIL. It's an interesting discussion whether people will think that is the next wave after the GSW team breaks.


I think if things break right for us, that model could work for us, especially in the east where its so wide open. PHI\Bos\Tor are the main teams, with teams like Mil\was\Ind all right there, but honestly if our guys pan out, i dont see why we cant compete with any of them. I dont see a team in the east that is THAT far in front like you have in the west with the warriors\rockets and potentially the lakers depending on what lebron brings to them.

Mil could still potentially be a contender because of how much potentially they have, Giannis is still improving and probably still growing as crazy as that sounds. Middleton is probably the most underrated player in the league, Parker is a very solid young forward, but i think one of the keys is the development of Thon Maker. Im betting Hammond drafted him with the same thought process in mind that he did when we drafted bamba, a 7fter who can be a unicorn and develop into a superstar, but id say Bamba is further along already than maker is even after 2 years in the nba.

And i think it was a plan, because look at most the guys the bucks have drafted, most have these crazy wingspans, and super high potential. Not just maker and giannis, but guys like Hensen and even middleton has a 7ft wingspan i think. Weltman seemed to be trying the same thing in toronto with picks like Mr "two years away from being two years away" Bruno caboclo (7'7 wingspan)

I wonder where Brandon Jennings was in his plan. He picked Jimmer then traded for Tobias so he was high on him too but traded him after he didn't find favor with Skiles. Anyway, you are more optimistic about Hammond apparently so maybe you are right. I see MIL as being a mid-level playoff team until their star gets poached and starting over again like most markets of that size. They are already scared they will lose GA and he has the quote that he will stay as long as they are championship level (whatever that means) so they are on the clock. If they got past the personality stuff to keep it together i still don't see them overcoming Boston or Philly but you never know.