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Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Julyan

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Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul 

Post#501 » by tiderulz » Mon Jul 9, 2018 2:08 pm

MagicStarwipe wrote:
j-ragg wrote:To me it isn’t about finding our PGOTF this offseason. But we should have some kind of pg threat that’ll make it easier on all of our big athletes that aren’t good at creating offense. DJ can shoot but not a playmaker and doesn’t attack the defense enough. Fournier is the only one who really attracts defensive attention and slashing isn’t really his game, though he does it the most of our guards probably.


That's the scary thing. We really don't have a single real perimeter playmaker on the roster. Unless we're going to put the ball in Isaac and AG's hands more and live with the growing pains, I expect Fournier/Vuc buddy ball to be at an all time high next season.

criticize him all you want, Fournier is a legit NBA perimeter player and shooter.
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Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul 

Post#502 » by pepe1991 » Mon Jul 9, 2018 2:22 pm

tiderulz wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
tiderulz wrote:So those 3 count for almost -10 pts a game in a loss, yeah that will hurt a W-L record.

and wait, you are calling out White's summer league play? when you cite how bad the SL players are if anyone tries to find the good points of our own players? a bit hypocritical dont you think?



Guy has been phenomenal in G league and SL so far. He had almost no chance to prove himself anywhere elese, as i pointed that he was 4th PG on Spurs, playoff roster .
BUT you can't tell me that this numbers are not impressive:
26-7-6 vs Grizzlies
21- 9a vs Hawks
22 -6 a vs Jazz

and by eye test he is always best player on the floor, being in control of his moves and of whole offense.

If somebody at PG had that type of numbers with Magic, this board would draw Magic Johnson or God knows who else type comparisons ,but since it's on other team nobody cares. IMO , from eye test and some stats, i think he has higher chance becomming nba player ,at least rotation one than Iwundu .

Is it fair to judge him in G league / SL compared to Iwundu's nba performance? Probably not, but Iwundu has been bad whenever he played , in G league last year he averaged 15 ppg on 40% FG and 12% for 3, this year in SL 30% FG , 0% for 3 on 8 ppg.


Magic " big 3" , sure, they have huge usage rate, their inability to play well on night to night bases swings whole team record to negative side.

its just funny that for some players, you want to downplay SL games and for White you want to highlight his SL play. And as a 2nd year player, you yourself said he should dominate SL play and that it isnt necessarily an indicator of regular NBA play. maybe the reason nobody cares is how often you criticize any SL play.

you cant have it both ways.


But you can have it both ways since SL has been around for just few years and for now results are mixed bag.

MVPs of this competition:
2012 co winners : Dame Lillard and ...Josh Selby ( plays in Korea )
2013- Jonas Valenchunas
2014- Glen Rice ( plays in Puerto Rico )
2015 -Tyus Jones ( still backup )
2016- Lonzo Ball

So if you are great there you can end up as one of best players on your position ( Lillard ) or you can end up in Puerto Rico or Korea :lol:

And yes, it's still expected that second year players deliver, but even when they do it should be taken with grain of salt, i don't expect White to become allstar or superstar and i never said he will, i said that i know it's hindsight but he today looks like better option than Iwundu. I don't even get how that's arguable, only difference is that one got actual NBA playing time because he was on tanking team, where other didn't because he was on playoff team, in every other competition White outplayed him.
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Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul 

Post#503 » by MagicStarwipe » Mon Jul 9, 2018 3:38 pm

tiderulz wrote:
MagicStarwipe wrote:
j-ragg wrote:To me it isn’t about finding our PGOTF this offseason. But we should have some kind of pg threat that’ll make it easier on all of our big athletes that aren’t good at creating offense. DJ can shoot but not a playmaker and doesn’t attack the defense enough. Fournier is the only one who really attracts defensive attention and slashing isn’t really his game, though he does it the most of our guards probably.


That's the scary thing. We really don't have a single real perimeter playmaker on the roster. Unless we're going to put the ball in Isaac and AG's hands more and live with the growing pains, I expect Fournier/Vuc buddy ball to be at an all time high next season.

criticize him all you want, Fournier is a legit NBA perimeter player and shooter.


Didn't say he wasn't. He's not a playmaker though. He's proven that time and time again.
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Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul 

Post#504 » by tiderulz » Mon Jul 9, 2018 3:58 pm

MagicStarwipe wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
MagicStarwipe wrote:
That's the scary thing. We really don't have a single real perimeter playmaker on the roster. Unless we're going to put the ball in Isaac and AG's hands more and live with the growing pains, I expect Fournier/Vuc buddy ball to be at an all time high next season.

criticize him all you want, Fournier is a legit NBA perimeter player and shooter.


Didn't say he wasn't. He's not a playmaker though. He's proven that time and time again.

i can agree with that. Though a lot of SG's around the league arent playmakers.
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Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul 

Post#505 » by John Murdoch » Mon Jul 9, 2018 5:37 pm

PrimeShaq wrote:I didn't think it was possible for all 3 teams to lose a trade

lmao
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Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul 

Post#506 » by Instincts » Mon Jul 9, 2018 5:59 pm

tiderulz wrote:
MagicStarwipe wrote:
tiderulz wrote:criticize him all you want, Fournier is a legit NBA perimeter player and shooter.


Didn't say he wasn't. He's not a playmaker though. He's proven that time and time again.

i can agree with that. Though a lot of SG's around the league arent playmakers.


The ball will be in AG's hands a lot more this year in a play making capacity. See Cliffords use of Batum in Charlotte.

I think everyone would agree we need another perimeter playmaker, but it doesn't have to happen this year.

I have long been an advocate of a healthy IT, primarily because I want a vet offensive PG to steer the offense and development of the young guys.

With that said, we are setting up for two years of AG/Isaac/Bamba development and a big free agent(s) acquisition in 2020. I do not want to jeopardize that timeline with any trades/ signings prior to that. Add an IT like player on a max two year deal, maybe, but no longer, nothing that infringes on the 2020 cap space.
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Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul 

Post#507 » by tiderulz » Mon Jul 9, 2018 7:17 pm

Instincts wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
MagicStarwipe wrote:
Didn't say he wasn't. He's not a playmaker though. He's proven that time and time again.

i can agree with that. Though a lot of SG's around the league arent playmakers.


The ball will be in AG's hands a lot more this year in a play making capacity. See Cliffords use of Batum in Charlotte.

I think everyone would agree we need another perimeter playmaker, but it doesn't have to happen this year.

I have long been an advocate of a healthy IT, primarily because I want a vet offensive PG to steer the offense and development of the young guys.

With that said, we are setting up for two years of AG/Isaac/Bamba development and a big free agent(s) acquisition in 2020. I do not want to jeopardize that timeline with any trades/ signings prior to that. Add an IT like player on a max two year deal, maybe, but no longer, nothing that infringes on the 2020 cap space.

but does IT really steer an offense or just "get his". Ive never really seen him "run" an offense.
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Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul 

Post#508 » by Spinedoc666 » Mon Jul 9, 2018 8:08 pm

tiderulz wrote:
MagicStarwipe wrote:
j-ragg wrote:To me it isn’t about finding our PGOTF this offseason. But we should have some kind of pg threat that’ll make it easier on all of our big athletes that aren’t good at creating offense. DJ can shoot but not a playmaker and doesn’t attack the defense enough. Fournier is the only one who really attracts defensive attention and slashing isn’t really his game, though he does it the most of our guards probably.


That's the scary thing. We really don't have a single real perimeter playmaker on the roster. Unless we're going to put the ball in Isaac and AG's hands more and live with the growing pains, I expect Fournier/Vuc buddy ball to be at an all time high next season.

criticize him all you want, Fournier is a legit NBA perimeter player and shooter.



Okay, but you aren't going to keep getting mad at us because we want a better one though, right? :D
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Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul 

Post#509 » by spinedoc » Mon Jul 9, 2018 9:15 pm

That Spinedoc666 dude is brilliant! Sorry, just testing my old account that Howard fixed for me.
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Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul 

Post#510 » by Catledge » Mon Jul 9, 2018 9:23 pm

spinedoc wrote:That Spinedoc666 dude is brilliant! Sorry, just testing my old account that Howard fixed for me.


Hey, doc. Good to have you back.

For the record, your 666 posts should be regarded as "noncanon," so they need not be logically consistent with the official Spinedoc universe.
Don't use exclamation points unless your intention is to yell at your reader!

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Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul 

Post#511 » by tiderulz » Mon Jul 9, 2018 10:28 pm

Spinedoc666 wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
MagicStarwipe wrote:
That's the scary thing. We really don't have a single real perimeter playmaker on the roster. Unless we're going to put the ball in Isaac and AG's hands more and live with the growing pains, I expect Fournier/Vuc buddy ball to be at an all time high next season.

criticize him all you want, Fournier is a legit NBA perimeter player and shooter.



Okay, but you aren't going to keep getting mad at us because we want a better one though, right? :D

if we can get a better one, great. And if that player doesnt turn into a superstar by year 2, i expect many people to turn on that player too. Seems to be the MO around here
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Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul 

Post#512 » by sportsrock37 » Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:45 am

It's not a great trade by any means but it's not a terrible trade either. It's pretty neutral. If you would have told me we would get a likely rotation player for Biz without giving up a young player or a 1st rounder with him, I would have thought you were crazy. To me what this trade does:

1. We got a backup PG/possible starting PG who is still fairly young. He's not going to turn into a star or anything, but I don't see why he can't improve with added time. Hopefully he gets back to his numbers 2 years ago where he shot 36% from 3. He's a good change of pace from DJ, similar to how Shelvin Mack was a good change of pace. If he's worse then Briscoe so be it, we can let him walk next year or just cut him.

2. Swapping the Biz contract for Mosgov contract is good because now we don't feel forced to play Mosgov since we didn't give him that contract. In the role that we are likely to play him. I also think Mosgov has the potential to be a better player than Biz was just because he can catch it and he's at least not a terrible offensive player like Biz was. Heaven forbid we have to play him, he should be able to produce similarly to Biz at the worst. My concern is hopefully he's not a cancer in the locker room, from all reports I've heard Biz was a great locker room guy.

3. This goes with #2, Khem Birch is the big winner here. He will get the 4th big minutes. Based on the Biz contract, I doubt Birch would have played over him. Birch slides in either as the primary backup PF or the 3rd C and with Vuc's injury history and how skinny Bamba is, I bet he will get fairly consistent playing time this year. Which is a good thing.

I don't think this signifies that our offseason is done. We still are enough under the luxury tax that we could still use the 2 exceptions. I'd still like to get a starting PG and while our rotation is easily the worst in the NBA, I think DJ/Grant/Briscoe can be serviceable enough for us to make a playoff run assuming we are healthy this year and AG/Isaac make the leap we are all hoping they can.
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Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul 

Post#513 » by spinedoc » Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:07 am

Catledge wrote:
spinedoc wrote:That Spinedoc666 dude is brilliant! Sorry, just testing my old account that Howard fixed for me.


Hey, doc. Good to have you back.

For the record, your 666 posts should be regarded as "noncanon," so they need not be logically consistent with the official Spinedoc universe.



Ha, good to be back. I was feeling like richboy there for awhile with two accounts, but at least I wasn't quoting myself, lol. Now there is a blast from the past. I saw it more as my Mark Twain to my Samuel Clemens. :D
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Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul 

Post#514 » by spinedoc » Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:10 am

tiderulz wrote:
Spinedoc666 wrote:
tiderulz wrote:criticize him all you want, Fournier is a legit NBA perimeter player and shooter.



Okay, but you aren't going to keep getting mad at us because we want a better one though, right? :D

if we can get a better one, great. And if that player doesnt turn into a superstar by year 2, i expect many people to turn on that player too. Seems to be the MO around here


I hear you, and Fournier was pretty much the best option at the time. I'm still looking for the next Tmac though, and I want you to take it easy on me for any future criticism I may have for him. Bird in the hand for now, but we need a go to guy to go with all these young redwoods we have. We have three spots to upgrade, pg and sg for sure, and more than likely sf. :wink:
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Re: RE: Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte 

Post#515 » by Optimus_Steel » Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:36 am

spinedoc wrote:
Catledge wrote:
spinedoc wrote:That Spinedoc666 dude is brilliant! Sorry, just testing my old account that Howard fixed for me.


Hey, doc. Good to have you back.

For the record, your 666 posts should be regarded as "noncanon," so they need not be logically consistent with the official Spinedoc universe.



Ha, good to be back. I was feeling like richboy there for awhile with two accounts, but at least I wasn't quoting myself, lol. Now there is a blast from the past. I saw it more as my Mark Twain to my Samuel Clemens. :D
Richboy got exposed and disappeared into the oblivion of the General Board.
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Re: RE: Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte 

Post#516 » by fendilim » Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:43 am

Optimus_Steel wrote:
spinedoc wrote:
Catledge wrote:
Hey, doc. Good to have you back.

For the record, your 666 posts should be regarded as "noncanon," so they need not be logically consistent with the official Spinedoc universe.



Ha, good to be back. I was feeling like richboy there for awhile with two accounts, but at least I wasn't quoting myself, lol. Now there is a blast from the past. I saw it more as my Mark Twain to my Samuel Clemens. :D
Richboy got exposed and disappeared into the oblivion of the General Board.

Haha wtf.. i missed this or something. What was the other account?
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Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul 

Post#517 » by tiderulz » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:23 am

spinedoc wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
Spinedoc666 wrote:[/b]

Okay, but you aren't going to keep getting mad at us because we want a better one though, right? :D

if we can get a better one, great. And if that player doesnt turn into a superstar by year 2, i expect many people to turn on that player too. Seems to be the MO around here


I hear you, and Fournier was pretty much the best option at the time. I'm still looking for the next Tmac though, and I want you to take it easy on me for any future criticism I may have for him. Bird in the hand for now, but we need a go to guy to go with all these young redwoods we have. We have three spots to upgrade, pg and sg for sure, and more than likely sf. :wink:

we need upgrade at PG and SF long before upgrade at SG. Evan is fine for SG for all the hate he gets here.
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Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul 

Post#518 » by spinedoc » Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:26 pm

tiderulz wrote:
spinedoc wrote:
tiderulz wrote:if we can get a better one, great. And if that player doesnt turn into a superstar by year 2, i expect many people to turn on that player too. Seems to be the MO around here


I hear you, and Fournier was pretty much the best option at the time. I'm still looking for the next Tmac though, and I want you to take it easy on me for any future criticism I may have for him. Bird in the hand for now, but we need a go to guy to go with all these young redwoods we have. We have three spots to upgrade, pg and sg for sure, and more than likely sf. :wink:

we need upgrade at PG and SF long before upgrade at SG. Evan is fine for SG for all the hate he gets here.


Not to beat a dead horse here Tide, but it depends what route we take to upgrade the other three positons. We agree probably that Bamba and Isaac are untouchable rock solid pieces of the future. The two most tradeable assets we have if we go the Tmac/Grant Hill scenario is AG and Evan. More than likely another team is going to want the better talent and upside in AG, but it could easily be Evan to make salaries work, or as their own stopgap option at the position. The only way I see Evan here semi long term is if we draft our new phenom wing, then he will need to be brought along slowly. Evan can then finish out his contract and move to a backup role on his next deal. I think we agree more than we disagree, and both wrong to prioritize the order of which we upgrade next. Its going to be contingent on where we draft and/or the other team that we're dealing with. I did have a longer more thought out post than this. I hate when you hit submit and it gets lost, ugh. Later.
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Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul 

Post#519 » by drsd » Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:50 pm

sportsrock37 wrote:3. This goes with #2, Khem Birch is the big winner here. He will get the 4th big minutes. Based on the Biz contract, I doubt Birch would have played over him. Birch slides in either as the primary backup PF or the 3rd C and with Vuc's injury history and how skinny Bamba is, I bet he will get fairly consistent playing time this year. Which is a good thing.


I am quite excited to see how this trade opens up Birch's game.


..
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Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul 

Post#520 » by tiderulz » Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:57 pm

spinedoc wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
spinedoc wrote:
I hear you, and Fournier was pretty much the best option at the time. I'm still looking for the next Tmac though, and I want you to take it easy on me for any future criticism I may have for him. Bird in the hand for now, but we need a go to guy to go with all these young redwoods we have. We have three spots to upgrade, pg and sg for sure, and more than likely sf. :wink:

we need upgrade at PG and SF long before upgrade at SG. Evan is fine for SG for all the hate he gets here.


Not to beat a dead horse here Tide, but it depends what route we take to upgrade the other three positons. We agree probably that Bamba and Isaac are untouchable rock solid pieces of the future. The two most tradeable assets we have if we go the Tmac/Grant Hill scenario is AG and Evan. More than likely another team is going to want the better talent and upside in AG, but it could easily be Evan to make salaries work, or as their own stopgap option at the position. The only way I see Evan here semi long term is if we draft our new phenom wing, then he will need to be brought along slowly. Evan can then finish out his contract and move to a backup role on his next deal. I think we agree more than we disagree, and both wrong to prioritize the order of which we upgrade next. Its going to be contingent on where we draft and/or the other team that we're dealing with. I did have a longer more thought out post than this. I hate when you hit submit and it gets lost, ugh. Later.

if the PG upgrade we get is a more defensive PG, we will need offense at SG, which Evan provides. people criticize Evan as a ball hog, yet he is about the same in assists (3 apg) as Redick, Gary Harris, close to CJ (3.4), better than Klay (2.5), Jaylen Brown (1.6), Danny Green (1.6) Eric Gordon (2.2). He has been a good soldier, played out of position for the last 2 years at SF. He can easily be #3 option who can create for himself and is a great catch n shoot player.

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