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Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Julyan

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Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul 

Post#521 » by MagicFan101 » Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:11 pm

I don’t get the hate for Fournier. I like him. He does his job and does it well at a reasonable price tag for a starting guard.

Sure there are better SGs out there but I don’t recall anyone saying Evan is #1 on their wish list. But he is the guy we have and in terms of spots needing upgrade, he makes SG a little lower on the priority list.

I’m perfectly fine trading Fourier in the right deal but I’m also perfectly fine with him starting.
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Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul 

Post#522 » by axl_c_cool » Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:54 pm

MagicFan101 wrote:I don’t get the hate for Fournier. I like him. He does his job and does it well at a reasonable price tag for a starting guard.

Sure there are better SGs out there but I don’t recall anyone saying Evan is #1 on their wish list. But he is the guy we have and in terms of spots needing upgrade, he makes SG a little lower on the priority list.

I’m perfectly fine trading Fourier in the right deal but I’m also perfectly fine with him starting.


The problem for some people I think stems from we had a choice between Fournier and Oladipo and we choose Evan. I know Dipo might not have became the same player if he didn't go OKC, but he really would have been a great fit with this current team.

I was actually thinking that with all the nice cap space we get in 2020 we should save it for 2021 and bring Dipo back!

??
Oladipo
Gordon
Isaac
Bamba

I love that team in 3 years!
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Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul 

Post#523 » by MagicFan101 » Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:56 pm

axl_c_cool wrote:
MagicFan101 wrote:I don’t get the hate for Fournier. I like him. He does his job and does it well at a reasonable price tag for a starting guard.

Sure there are better SGs out there but I don’t recall anyone saying Evan is #1 on their wish list. But he is the guy we have and in terms of spots needing upgrade, he makes SG a little lower on the priority list.

I’m perfectly fine trading Fourier in the right deal but I’m also perfectly fine with him starting.


The problem for some people I think stems from we had a choice between Fournier and Oladipo and we choose Evan. I know Dipo might not have became the same player if he didn't go OKC, but he really would have been a great fit with this current team.

I was actually thinking that with all the nice cap space we get in 2020 we should save it for 2021 and bring Dipo back!

??
Oladipo
Gordon
Isaac
Bamba

I love that team in 3 years!


That is fair but that hate is then misdirected. Evan didn’t make that decision; Henny did.
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Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul 

Post#524 » by MagicStarwipe » Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:00 pm

The hate on Evan is also because of the role he's been given which doesn't 100% suit his skillset. Also the friendship with Vuc and maybe not being as supportive of a teammate as he could be.
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Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul 

Post#525 » by axl_c_cool » Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:01 pm

MagicFan101 wrote:
axl_c_cool wrote:
MagicFan101 wrote:I don’t get the hate for Fournier. I like him. He does his job and does it well at a reasonable price tag for a starting guard.

Sure there are better SGs out there but I don’t recall anyone saying Evan is #1 on their wish list. But he is the guy we have and in terms of spots needing upgrade, he makes SG a little lower on the priority list.

I’m perfectly fine trading Fourier in the right deal but I’m also perfectly fine with him starting.


The problem for some people I think stems from we had a choice between Fournier and Oladipo and we choose Evan. I know Dipo might not have became the same player if he didn't go OKC, but he really would have been a great fit with this current team.

I was actually thinking that with all the nice cap space we get in 2020 we should save it for 2021 and bring Dipo back!

??
Oladipo
Gordon
Isaac
Bamba

I love that team in 3 years!


That is fair but that hate is then misdirected. Evan didn’t make that decision; Henny did.


100%, I also think for most posters, I think it's like my dislike/want of trading him. The Dipo situation added with the fact that he's good, but not amazing, doesn't really make you want to keep him. He is also the player with the most value we would consider trading. I think that's why it all adds up and seems like hate, I really don't mind the guy. At the time I wanted to keep both, and I think Fournier off the bench at 2 or 3 would actually be a great role for him and would have made us a really dangerous team
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Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul 

Post#526 » by NBlue » Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:11 pm

spinedoc wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
spinedoc wrote:
I hear you, and Fournier was pretty much the best option at the time. I'm still looking for the next Tmac though, and I want you to take it easy on me for any future criticism I may have for him. Bird in the hand for now, but we need a go to guy to go with all these young redwoods we have. We have three spots to upgrade, pg and sg for sure, and more than likely sf. :wink:

we need upgrade at PG and SF long before upgrade at SG. Evan is fine for SG for all the hate he gets here.


Not to beat a dead horse here Tide, but it depends what route we take to upgrade the other three positons. We agree probably that Bamba and Isaac are untouchable rock solid pieces of the future. The two most tradeable assets we have if we go the Tmac/Grant Hill scenario is AG and Evan. More than likely another team is going to want the better talent and upside in AG, but it could easily be Evan to make salaries work, or as their own stopgap option at the position. The only way I see Evan here semi long term is if we draft our new phenom wing, then he will need to be brought along slowly. Evan can then finish out his contract and move to a backup role on his next deal. I think we agree more than we disagree, and both wrong to prioritize the order of which we upgrade next. Its going to be contingent on where we draft and/or the other team that we're dealing with. I did have a longer more thought out post than this. I hate when you hit submit and it gets lost, ugh. Later.


I'm not really willing to give AG away so easily and its not clear to me that Isaac and Bamba necessarily have higher likely upside than him. I think we need to carefully evaluate before we trade away a 22 year old kid getting us 17.6 and 8 who has really developed every year and is clearly still developing. I'm not saying he will necessarily be better than Mo or Isaac but to me its not clear at all that he won't be when all is said and done. Isaac and Mo both have things that make them potentially very special players but both also have some severe weaknesses in their game. Specifically neither have shown anywhere near the aggressiveness or ability to score on the offensive end that AG has. In my mind, I would not have AG as more tradeable than either of those two -- I realize this is a minority opinion.
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Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul 

Post#527 » by Nyce_1 » Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:44 pm

Only summer league, and a year old, but I like the tools Grant has in the bag.

https://youtu.be/2VTIs7Pj3Wo

He's capable of this. If he can't get it to translate, consistently, I'm happy. I don't care about the points in this game, but his aggressiveness, ability to spot up, defense, and willingness to pass are good to see. Loved to see him attacking the rim for the dunk too.

Not flashy, but 3 years in, can he be a late bloomer? That's the gamble.
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Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul 

Post#528 » by tiderulz » Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:45 pm

NBlue wrote:
spinedoc wrote:
tiderulz wrote:we need upgrade at PG and SF long before upgrade at SG. Evan is fine for SG for all the hate he gets here.


Not to beat a dead horse here Tide, but it depends what route we take to upgrade the other three positons. We agree probably that Bamba and Isaac are untouchable rock solid pieces of the future. The two most tradeable assets we have if we go the Tmac/Grant Hill scenario is AG and Evan. More than likely another team is going to want the better talent and upside in AG, but it could easily be Evan to make salaries work, or as their own stopgap option at the position. The only way I see Evan here semi long term is if we draft our new phenom wing, then he will need to be brought along slowly. Evan can then finish out his contract and move to a backup role on his next deal. I think we agree more than we disagree, and both wrong to prioritize the order of which we upgrade next. Its going to be contingent on where we draft and/or the other team that we're dealing with. I did have a longer more thought out post than this. I hate when you hit submit and it gets lost, ugh. Later.


I'm not really willing to give AG away so easily and its not clear to me that Isaac and Bamba necessarily have higher likely upside than him. I think we need to carefully evaluate before we trade away a 22 year old kid getting us 17.6 and 8 who has really developed every year and is clearly still developing. I'm not saying he will necessarily be better than Mo or Isaac but to me its not clear at all that he won't be when all is said and done. Isaac and Mo both have things that make them potentially very special players but both also have some severe weaknesses in their game. Specifically neither have shown anywhere near the aggressiveness or ability to score on the offensive end that AG has. In my mind, I would not have AG as more tradeable than either of those two -- I realize this is a minority opinion.

if nothing else, i wonder if AG could thrive in a 3&D role at SF. Not rely on him to be dynamic and create a lot, but just defend, hit the open shots, create a little havoc.
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Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul 

Post#529 » by spinedoc » Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:37 pm

NBlue wrote:
spinedoc wrote:
tiderulz wrote:we need upgrade at PG and SF long before upgrade at SG. Evan is fine for SG for all the hate he gets here.


Not to beat a dead horse here Tide, but it depends what route we take to upgrade the other three positons. We agree probably that Bamba and Isaac are untouchable rock solid pieces of the future. The two most tradeable assets we have if we go the Tmac/Grant Hill scenario is AG and Evan. More than likely another team is going to want the better talent and upside in AG, but it could easily be Evan to make salaries work, or as their own stopgap option at the position. The only way I see Evan here semi long term is if we draft our new phenom wing, then he will need to be brought along slowly. Evan can then finish out his contract and move to a backup role on his next deal. I think we agree more than we disagree, and both wrong to prioritize the order of which we upgrade next. Its going to be contingent on where we draft and/or the other team that we're dealing with. I did have a longer more thought out post than this. I hate when you hit submit and it gets lost, ugh. Later.


I'm not really willing to give AG away so easily and its not clear to me that Isaac and Bamba necessarily have higher likely upside than him. I think we need to carefully evaluate before we trade away a 22 year old kid getting us 17.6 and 8 who has really developed every year and is clearly still developing. I'm not saying he will necessarily be better than Mo or Isaac but to me its not clear at all that he won't be when all is said and done. Isaac and Mo both have things that make them potentially very special players but both also have some severe weaknesses in their game. Specifically neither have shown anywhere near the aggressiveness or ability to score on the offensive end that AG has. In my mind, I would not have AG as more tradeable than either of those two -- I realize this is a minority opinion.


Nobody wants to give AG away, I'm saying that he is the most valuable asset we have in a trade, besides expiring contracts. It depends what the other team wants or needs. I do believe deep in my soul that Isaac will be pushing AG out of the picture, but I'm also willing to see what happens with all three of our bigs in the lineup together. I'm just trying to be realistic when forecasting the future is all. Same goes for Evan, I'd be fine with him a three man rotation on the wing. I just want two better starters at sg and sf. If we clear out all the other crap, Vuc, Mosgov, even Ross, I'd be okay keeping AG and Evan. The problem is we would have to draft our talent or guess right in free agency, cheaper contracts on the rise . It takes away the two star free agency plan I eluded to though. The way I see it, we have two studs with Bamba and Isaac, and two nice sixth men in AG and Evan. We need everything else going forward.
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Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul 

Post#530 » by PennytoShaq » Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:39 pm

AG will either develop his game or get us a player in a trade who makes more sense for the team. So either way, he is an asset for us and I am glad we have him. Bamba and Isaac definitely make sense next to each other, but they are still a year or two away from being able to really anchor the team.
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Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul 

Post#531 » by PrimeThyme » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:41 pm

&& Weltman doubles down once again on the idea that our roster may be finished. Some of us got ripped in this thread for saying that might be the case after the trade.. He suggests that trades could be made if there is an upgrade but I would consider that highly unlikely. Especially considering the fact that the one position we could majorly upgrade at is point guard and he has alluded to multiple times and Robbins said in the Sentinel article today that he is perfectly comfortable with DJ as the starter.

Some people better start strapping in for evaluation season Part 2..
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Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul 

Post#532 » by PennytoShaq » Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:08 am

PrimeShaq wrote:&& Weltman doubles down once again on the idea that our roster may be finished. Some of us got ripped in this thread for saying that might be the case after the trade.. He suggests that trades could be made if there is an upgrade but I would consider that highly unlikely. Especially considering the fact that the one position we could majorly upgrade at is point guard and he has alluded to multiple times and Robbins said in the Sentinel article today that he is perfectly comfortable with DJ as the starter.

Some people better start strapping in for evaluation season Part 2..


Didnt we all expect the team to tank one more year or no?

Outside of signing IT, i am not sure what else they can really do. Trading vuc and taking on more years of contract just seems like a bad idea when we could offer a guy like kemba 25 mill next summer.

Im not a huge fan of evan or dj but both guys can knock down 3 pointers. And the general consensus is that we need that right now.
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Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul 

Post#533 » by PrimeThyme » Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:21 am

PennytoShaq wrote:
PrimeShaq wrote:&& Weltman doubles down once again on the idea that our roster may be finished. Some of us got ripped in this thread for saying that might be the case after the trade.. He suggests that trades could be made if there is an upgrade but I would consider that highly unlikely. Especially considering the fact that the one position we could majorly upgrade at is point guard and he has alluded to multiple times and Robbins said in the Sentinel article today that he is perfectly comfortable with DJ as the starter.

Some people better start strapping in for evaluation season Part 2..


Didnt we all expect the team to tank one more year or no?

Outside of signing IT, i am not sure what else they can really do. Trading vuc and taking on more years of contract just seems like a bad idea when we could offer a guy like kemba 25 mill next summer.

Im not a huge fan of evan or dj but both guys can knock down 3 pointers. And the general consensus is that we need that right now.

I can't speak for everyone, but I sure didn't. You don't hire Steve Clifford and then tank (part of the reason I wasn't big on the hire in the first place). He was hired to get the best out of this roster and try to get us to the playoffs. We inadvertently tanked last year anyways. If we had not sustained the injuries we did we are likely a 33-35 win team. So if we are going to fight for the playoffs anyway, we might as well had tried to acquire a starting level point guard on this team. That was the whole point of signing IT.

This roster right now with Clifford as coach will likely at a minimum (if no injuries) win 35 games next year. In a draft that is supposed to be one of the more top-heavy drafts in recent memory, we won't sniff the cream of the crop this year. With the PG rotation we have, I think the ceiling is probably capped at around 40 wins too which would barely land us the 8th seed or just outside. That's just not a great position to be in.
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Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul 

Post#534 » by PennytoShaq » Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:34 am

PrimeShaq wrote:
PennytoShaq wrote:
PrimeShaq wrote:&& Weltman doubles down once again on the idea that our roster may be finished. Some of us got ripped in this thread for saying that might be the case after the trade.. He suggests that trades could be made if there is an upgrade but I would consider that highly unlikely. Especially considering the fact that the one position we could majorly upgrade at is point guard and he has alluded to multiple times and Robbins said in the Sentinel article today that he is perfectly comfortable with DJ as the starter.

Some people better start strapping in for evaluation season Part 2..


Didnt we all expect the team to tank one more year or no?

Outside of signing IT, i am not sure what else they can really do. Trading vuc and taking on more years of contract just seems like a bad idea when we could offer a guy like kemba 25 mill next summer.

Im not a huge fan of evan or dj but both guys can knock down 3 pointers. And the general consensus is that we need that right now.

I can't speak for everyone, but I sure didn't. You don't hire Steve Clifford and then tank (part of the reason I wasn't big on the hire in the first place). He was hired to get the best out of this roster and try to get us to the playoffs. We inadvertently tanked last year anyways. If we had not sustained the injuries we did we are likely a 33-35 win team. So if we are going to fight for the playoffs anyway, we might as well had tried to acquire a starting level point guard on this team. That was the whole point of signing IT.

This roster right now with Clifford as coach will likely at a minimum (if no injuries) win 35 games next year. In a draft that is supposed to be one of the more top-heavy drafts in recent memory, we won't sniff the cream of the crop this year. With the PG rotation we have, I think the ceiling is probably capped at around 40 wins too which would barely land us the 8th seed or just outside. That's just not a great position to be in.



Yeah im not sure we tank it either but i still think the plan is sustained growth without compromising the future. Not getting the pg of the future right away is not a huge issue to me since the magic need 2-3 postions still. If ag doesn’t work out the magic can move him for one and if he does, it may be better if the magic do slide into the 8th seed so they can show a free agent they are headed in the right direction.
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Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul 

Post#535 » by thelead » Tue Apr 30, 2019 5:03 am

thelead wrote:
The Effect wrote:
mattyBoi wrote:I think there is a good chance our PG rotation is DJ/Grant/Briscoe this season. This move was insurance.

Im betting Grant becomes the starter early in the season, if not day 1. Augustin is a good PG, but not starting caliber. Grant may or may not be the long term guy (i think he is), but he has the POTENTIAL to be, and the same goes for Briscoe, wouldnt surprise me if hes the starter by seasons end. Either way, i think early in the season Grant will become the starter and by the end, our top 2 will be grant and briscoe


Jerian has played 3,979 minutes and 213 games over 3 seasons. He is 25 (26 before the season starts) and is a career 41/31/78 shooter. You think Jerian is the solution as our long term PG starter???????????

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If we’re going to bump old Jerian Grant posts, I like mine in particular :lol:
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Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul 

Post#536 » by pepe1991 » Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:46 am

pepe1991 wrote:
Jiwol wrote:
DiplomaticMagic wrote:
Okay and?? What PG's available right now won't make it a joke??

Just because we have a hole at the PG doesn't mean we have to rush into signing PG's who aren't the answer either or make a bad trade.

We are expected to be bad anyway, I'm fine with rolling with DJ another year as we continue to build from the draft and hopefully come across our future PG soon. And I'm not saying Briscoe or Grant our going to be our saviors or anything but at least they fit into the identity of what the FO is trying o create.


+1
Quit bitching. Not only there's still plenty of offseason left to make amendments/trades (more than 3 months, goddamnit!), but Diplomatic is right about our PG situation. Everybody wants quick fixes and then get disappointed.


It's hindsight but last year instad of trading Raptors pick they could have taken Derrick White.

I'm not pulling for fast fix but you simply can't enter season with this PG rotation if tanking isn't option. Especially with Clifford who runned whole offense through Kemba's and Batum's ability to distribute ball. ( Kemba had 27-29% usage rate )


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8-)
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Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul 

Post#537 » by drsd » Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:33 am

Big A All Day wrote:Jerian who?


If we only knew how insightful this post would turn out to be.


..
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Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul 

Post#538 » by DiplomaticMagic » Wed May 1, 2019 6:46 am

pepe1991 wrote:Call me Nostaradamus 8-)


pepe1991 wrote:I'm not pulling for fast fix but you simply can't enter season with this PG rotation if tanking isn't option. Especially with Clifford who runned whole offense through Kemba's and Batum's ability to distribute ball. ( Kemba had 27-29% usage rate )


Nah.
Don't trade AG
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Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul 

Post#539 » by pepe1991 » Wed May 1, 2019 7:14 am

DiplomaticMagic wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:Call me Nostaradamus 8-)


pepe1991 wrote:I'm not pulling for fast fix but you simply can't enter season with this PG rotation if tanking isn't option. Especially with Clifford who runned whole offense through Kemba's and Batum's ability to distribute ball. ( Kemba had 27-29% usage rate )


Nah.


Grant was backup PG on start of season and one of main reason why our bench was so damn awful....
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Re: Sources: Charlotte, Chicago and Orlando finalizing trade that includes Mozgov to Magic, Biyombo to Charlotte and Jul 

Post#540 » by DiplomaticMagic » Wed May 1, 2019 7:20 am

pepe1991 wrote:
DiplomaticMagic wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:Call me Nostaradamus 8-)


pepe1991 wrote:I'm not pulling for fast fix but you simply can't enter season with this PG rotation if tanking isn't option. Especially with Clifford who runned whole offense through Kemba's and Batum's ability to distribute ball. ( Kemba had 27-29% usage rate )


Nah.


Grant was backup PG on start of season and one of main reason why our bench was so damn awful....


We still made the playoffs and had winning record with the same PG rotation plus 1 month of MCW who is almost as bad.
Don't trade AG

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