Isaac - Magic Cure?

[pepe1991]

You follow basketball through box scores. You need to try WATCHING the games.

there is not single player in the world who has horrendus stats and who is great player my friend, if somebody struggles to dribble a ball and shoot- he is not good offensive player by eye test , stats just prove that.
He is young, can develop , but right now he doesn't look like player that will turn this team around .

Who said he is a great player today? No one.

But are saying he outright can’t dribble or shoot. That just isn’t the case. Shots aren’t falling at an elite rate early but he has a smooth handle, is beating defenders off the dribble (at his height!!) and delivers nice clean shooting motion.

These are the things you look for (with your eyes!) as indicators of growth and development.

did you even read what i posted before you replyed with your bulls** ?

Smooth handle? OK , i'm done, don't reply ,i have zero will to keep this ridiculous debate.

[MagicFan101]

there is not single player in the world who has horrendus stats and who is great player my friend, if somebody struggles to dribble a ball and shoot- he is not good offensive player by eye test , stats just prove that.
He is young, can develop , but right now he doesn't look like player that will turn this team around .

Who said he is a great player today? No one.

But are saying he outright can’t dribble or shoot. That just isn’t the case. Shots aren’t falling at an elite rate early but he has a smooth handle, is beating defenders off the dribble (at his height!!) and delivers nice clean shooting motion.

These are the things you look for (with your eyes!) as indicators of growth and development.

did you even read what i posted before you replyed with your bulls** ?

Smooth handle? OK , i'm done, don't reply ,i have zero will to keep this ridiculous debate.

It does take a strong will to defend a losing argument. While silly, I do give you credit for trying as long as you did.

[Audi]

Where is this new offensive explosion from Isaac everyone is talking about? I would pump the brakes a bit before we set ourselves up for disappointment, I want Isaac to improve offensively and become a star two-way player as the next guy, but he's shooting 13-37 (35%) from the field through 3 summer league games. His best offensive game against Brooklyn where he shot 7-17, I recall him making 3-4 jump shots, which looked really good, but he has clanked almost all of his jump-shots since that game. He hasn't been shooting well in Summer League, and he will not be our franchise-savior if he does not develop his offense at the minimum to a level where he can at least hit open 3's consistently.

He's still a long ways out, he looks good putting the ball on the floor and his jumper looks pretty smooth, but at the end of it he's still not able to put the ball in the hoop effectively, which is kind of disappointing (even though it shouldn't be because he was a project offensively to begin with) because I was hoping he'd dominate against these scrubs.

I'm cautiously optimistic about his future offensive game... it looks good now, but there's a very real chance he never develops the ability to start actually draining those 3's, etc. We've been through this already: AG (not that it's necessarily too late for him to develop an efficient/good offensive game).

13/37 isn’t horrible when your team isn’t really running any schemes for you. I mean - they either dump the ball for him and he has to create or he’s making it happen off rebounds.

Put it this way - JJJr is shooting 19/52 (36%) so far this summer and nobody is worried.

In DSJr’s only two games, he went 9/24 (37%) and he’s got much more experience than Isaac on the NBA floor.

Trae Young is the only player that warrants a real worry. Shooting what - 23/83 (27%) through the summer thus far? Considering SL is when small guards typically dominate, while bigs are historically left out, Isaac is shining.

Anyone know a player that is shooting at a very high percentage from the floor right now? the stats for summer league are nil outside of box scores.

[PennytoShaq]

I loved hearing vince carter talk about isaacs handle and how he could play the 3. Even asked hammond about it, who said he could.

Boy, that really must have triggered some of the haters here.

[PennytoShaq]

Where is this new offensive explosion from Isaac everyone is talking about? I would pump the brakes a bit before we set ourselves up for disappointment, I want Isaac to improve offensively and become a star two-way player as the next guy, but he's shooting 13-37 (35%) from the field through 3 summer league games. His best offensive game against Brooklyn where he shot 7-17, I recall him making 3-4 jump shots, which looked really good, but he has clanked almost all of his jump-shots since that game. He hasn't been shooting well in Summer League, and he will not be our franchise-savior if he does not develop his offense at the minimum to a level where he can at least hit open 3's consistently.

He's still a long ways out, he looks good putting the ball on the floor and his jumper looks pretty smooth, but at the end of it he's still not able to put the ball in the hoop effectively, which is kind of disappointing (even though it shouldn't be because he was a project offensively to begin with) because I was hoping he'd dominate against these scrubs.

I'm cautiously optimistic about his future offensive game... it looks good now, but there's a very real chance he never develops the ability to start actually draining those 3's, etc. We've been through this already: AG (not that it's necessarily too late for him to develop an efficient/good offensive game).

13/37 isn’t horrible when your team isn’t really running any schemes for you. I mean - they either dump the ball for him and he has to create or he’s making it happen off rebounds.

Put it this way - JJJr is shooting 19/52 (36%) so far this summer and nobody is worried.

In DSJr’s only two games, he went 9/24 (37%) and he’s got much more experience than Isaac on the NBA floor.

Trae Young is the only player that warrants a real worry. Shooting what - 23/83 (27%) through the summer thus far? Considering SL is when small guards typically dominate, while bigs are historically left out, Isaac is shining.

Anyone know a player that is shooting at a very high percentage from the floor right now? the stats for summer league are nil outside of box scores.

Nice to see a combo of real stat analysis with someone who actually watches games. Guys parroting stats with no context or skewing them to try and win arguments are half the reason this place has become so toxic.

[PrimeThyme]

Why even have scouts, if all GM's had to do is look at an NBA.com box score to determine a players potential/improvements. Literally, every announcer, media person, and person in general that has actually sat down and watched the games and not just looked at the box score has seen the clear as day improvements with his handle, aggressiveness, and offensive game overall. He's got the green light to shoot more FGA then he will in the regular season so his efficiency is down, but the aggressiveness, handle, and how he is getting to his spots on the floor is something he didn't have in his game offensively a year ago. There is a reason he is catching the eye of everyone right now. He is impressing offensively despite the efficiency.

Again though, Its a losing battle trying to get PePe to factor in anything but a box score when he evaluates a player. Thats why his arguments, especially with young raw guys, are generally flawed.

[tiderulz]

I loved hearing vince carter talk about isaacs handle and how he could play the 3. Even asked hammond about it, who said he could.

Boy, that really must have triggered some of the haters here.

I have my doubts, but he is looking good right now. would be very happy to see him be able to play SF

[fendilim]

Who said he is a great player today? No one.

But are saying he outright can’t dribble or shoot. That just isn’t the case. Shots aren’t falling at an elite rate early but he has a smooth handle, is beating defenders off the dribble (at his height!!) and delivers nice clean shooting motion.

These are the things you look for (with your eyes!) as indicators of growth and development.

did you even read what i posted before you replyed with your bulls** ?

Smooth handle? OK , i'm done, don't reply ,i have zero will to keep this ridiculous debate.

It does take a strong will to defend a losing argument. While silly, I do give you credit for trying as long as you did.

To be fair, isaac doesnt have smooth handles yet. Like most of the comments on his game, after watching his summer league games, are about how he has to tighten his dribble. Cause he fumbles it still.

Also, his one two dribble pullup have always been there since college. Its his more than 3 dribbles and pnr that has improved. I hooe we see more of this two tonight.

I’d definitely love to see a more aggressive Isaac come the regular season tho.

[PennytoShaq]

I loved hearing vince carter talk about isaacs handle and how he could play the 3. Even asked hammond about it, who said he could.

Boy, that really must have triggered some of the haters here.

I have my doubts, but he is looking good right now. would be very happy to see him be able to play SF

Same. Not sure if it is a full time position but i have always said i think he can play 3,4 and 5 which is what makes him such a versatile player.

I love him as a small ball 5 now and then too. He could really do damage there.

[BadMofoPimp]

I loved hearing vince carter talk about isaacs handle and how he could play the 3. Even asked hammond about it, who said he could.

Boy, that really must have triggered some of the haters here.

I have my doubts, but he is looking good right now. would be very happy to see him be able to play SF

Personally, I don't think he can play the 3, but that all depends on Isaac and if he can improve. Right now, I have my doubts as well.

[Audi]

I loved hearing vince carter talk about isaacs handle and how he could play the 3. Even asked hammond about it, who said he could.

Boy, that really must have triggered some of the haters here.

I have my doubts, but he is looking good right now. would be very happy to see him be able to play SF

Personally, I don't think he can play the 3, but that all depends on Isaac and if he can improve. Right now, I have my doubts as well.

I’m convinced it doesn’t matter. Positionless basketball either is or is not a thing.

[Def Swami]

I like that he was more aggressive on offense during SL. He still has the chops to be an all-NBA defender. I really like that they used him as a 5 during these games. I think you can really unlock his game as a 5. Hard to draw much more than that from these games. His overall game is still similar to what it was at FSU. He really likes his pull-up mid-range game. You can tell he's comfortable with that part of his game and offers hope as a shooter overall. But where you'd like to see him get better at is putting the ball on the floor and either finishing or drawing fouls, and hitting 3's at a reliable rate. Hard to say whether those two aspects of his game will continue to develop or not, but it's fair to bet on it, which is why his potential is exciting. But it's still just potential for now.

[PennytoShaq]

I like that he was more aggressive on offense during SL. He still has the chops to be an all-NBA defender. Hard to draw much more than that from these games. His overall game is still similar to what it was at FSU. He really likes his pull-up mid-range game. You can tell he's comfortable with that part of his game and offers hope as a shooter overall. But where you'd like to see him get better at is putting the ball on the floor and either finishing or drawing fouls, and hitting 3's at a reliable rate. Hard to say whether those two aspects of his game will continue to develop or not, but it's fair to bet on it, which is why his potential is exciting. But it's still just potential for now.

Correct. When I see guys with potential, all I want to see is them show constant improvement each year. Isaac so far, is a doing that. That is a good sign for his growth and why I think so many pundits are high on him.

This year he will probably start the season off shooting pretty poorly, but what we want to see is him grow those %s over the course of the season.

[PrimeThyme]

People get so caught up in positions these days. Constantly debating whether he's a 3, or a 4, or that he is a 5. When you have players like Isaac, Bamba, and AG in today's positionless NBA, you don't have to define them as one position. The right coach will maximize all 3 of their abilities. Its going to take some creativity and I'm not necessarily saying that Clifford is or isn't that guy, but a coach innovative enough has to be salivating at the idea of having 3 guys in today's NBA that have the skillset at the size that BIG does.

The good thing is that Isaac and AG are continually adding to and improving their game offensively and both are still under 23 years old. Isaac is 20 and hasn't even played in 30 games yet. I would suggest for people not to get so caught up in labeling them a position. WeHam is not building this team in a traditional way, they are clearly building it with positionless basketball in mind.

[Last Guardian]

Offensively, the efficiency wasn't there statistically, but we definitely saw him being way more assertive than he has ever been, even in college. He definitely did some things he couldn't/didn't do last season, and the pull up jumpers from mid-range usually looked nice even the ones that didn't go in. A few times he took it to the basket and probably should have looked to do that more often. As far as dribbling, it was ok. Nothing great. I didn't notice him losing the ball, but he wasn't super crisp with his moves either.

Between the similarities in height and mid-range game, I could see him being something similar to a Seattle Rashard Lewis. Less of a 3pt threat, but wayyyy better defensively.

[tiderulz]

I have my doubts, but he is looking good right now. would be very happy to see him be able to play SF

Personally, I don't think he can play the 3, but that all depends on Isaac and if he can improve. Right now, I have my doubts as well.

I’m convinced it doesn’t matter. Positionless basketball either is or is not a thing.

and i dont think it is a thing. at least to more than 1-2 teams in the league with talent at every position

[Versubio]

Offensively, the efficiency wasn't there statistically, but we definitely saw him being way more assertive than he has ever been, even in college. He definitely did some things he couldn't/didn't do last season, and the pull up jumpers from mid-range usually looked nice even the ones that didn't go in. A few times he took it to the basket and probably should have looked to do that more often. As far as dribbling, it was ok. Nothing great. I didn't notice him losing the ball, but he wasn't super crisp with his moves either.

Between the similarities in height and mid-range game, I could see him being something similar to a Seattle Rashard Lewis. Less of a 3pt threat, but wayyyy better defensively.

Seattle Rashard Lewis was a hell of a player! If he can become that we are in amazing shape.

[spinedoc]

I like that he was more aggressive on offense during SL. He still has the chops to be an all-NBA defender. I really like that they used him as a 5 during these games. I think you can really unlock his game as a 5. Hard to draw much more than that from these games. His overall game is still similar to what it was at FSU. He really likes his pull-up mid-range game. You can tell he's comfortable with that part of his game and offers hope as a shooter overall. But where you'd like to see him get better at is putting the ball on the floor and either finishing or drawing fouls, and hitting 3's at a reliable rate. Hard to say whether those two aspects of his game will continue to develop or not, but it's fair to bet on it, which is why his potential is exciting. But it's still just potential for now.

That's the beauty of potential, everyone has it, lol. I have the potential to grow 6 more inches, but its probably not going to happen. I too want to see the experiment play out, not to come on here and shout how right I was, but to actually see the good, bad, and ugly of it. Since that is all we have to look forward to this year, then why not. I get excited about developing players anyway. I remain very skeptical though. Isaac can do a lot of nice things at sf, like find the open space on the floor and shoot over smaller threes. He can defend the spot, so that takes one major hurdle out of the way. He can dribble drive some, and pull up nicely. Where he has problems is his three point consistency, and his consistent handles. He's so long and lean and it takes a long way to put the ball on the floor. I don't see him changing the depth of his dribble, or the speed of it with much control. Quicker threes are going to time his dribble and take his lunch way too often. He is not instinctually suited for the position. His strengths in his mismatches come at pf, or even at center. I'm more interested to see him play the five with AG over sf actually. I'm ready for anything this year, and I want to see a whole host of different variables.

[Def Swami]

I like that he was more aggressive on offense during SL. He still has the chops to be an all-NBA defender. I really like that they used him as a 5 during these games. I think you can really unlock his game as a 5. Hard to draw much more than that from these games. His overall game is still similar to what it was at FSU. He really likes his pull-up mid-range game. You can tell he's comfortable with that part of his game and offers hope as a shooter overall. But where you'd like to see him get better at is putting the ball on the floor and either finishing or drawing fouls, and hitting 3's at a reliable rate. Hard to say whether those two aspects of his game will continue to develop or not, but it's fair to bet on it, which is why his potential is exciting. But it's still just potential for now.

That's the beauty of potential, everyone has it, lol. I have the potential to grow 6 more inches, but its probably not going to happen. I too want to see the experiment play out, not to come on here and shout how right I was, but to actually see the good, bad, and ugly of it. Since that is all we have to look forward to this year, then why not. I get excited about developing players anyway. I remain very skeptical though. Isaac can do a lot of nice things at sf, like find the open space on the floor and shoot over smaller threes. He can defend the spot, so that takes one major hurdle out of the way. He can dribble drive some, and pull up nicely. Where he has problems is his three point consistency, and his consistent handles. He's so long and lean and it takes a long way to put the ball on the floor. I don't see him changing the depth of his dribble, or the speed of it with much control. Quicker threes are going to time his dribble and take his lunch way too often. He is not instinctually suited for the position. His strengths in his mismatches come at pf, or even at center. I'm more interested to see him play the five with AG over sf actually. I'm ready for anything this year, and I want to see a whole host of different variables.

I share the sentiment. I have a healthy skepticism about Isaac or most players who come into the league and developing skills they never showed a propensity for. It's definitely possible his shooting develops, but for every Kawhai Leonard there is a Michael Kidd-Gilchrest.

But while we have him, I hope they throw him into the fire and try to get him reps. This probably will be a lost season, so I'd rather figure out what we have in these young players than watch a half-hearted attempt at the playoffs on the back of DJ Augustin and Nik Vucevic while the team flails mid-season into abyss. Let the kids play!

[PrimeThyme]

He shot 34% from 3 on 2.8 attempts at FSU and shot 34% from 3 on 1.8 attempts his rookie season. He is a capable 3pt shooter. Compared to someone like AG who shot less than 30% on fewer attempts in his first two years, I'm really not concerned about it. It's still an obvious work in progress though, as his whole offensive game is. I like his stroke, but he does tend to rush his motion at times and not set his feet. When he does though and shoots it with confidence, it looks good.

Watch on YouTube

3:25 is an example of him taking his time. He's struggled to shoot it from deep so far this summer so guys aren't respecting him yet (like Jackson didn't in this video), but I'm still confident that he will regain his confidence shooting it again and wind up somewhere around the 35% range from 3 this year. If he can show that continuous improvement year after year with his shooting like AG did, he is going to be a really effective shooter in this league.