OT:Michael Porter Jr. Likes Instagram Comment Calling Luka Doncic Overrated, Euro Players Fire Back

[pepe1991]

You cant call anyone overated if you yourself can't stay on the court...

I was thinking this as well, but then it occured to me that all the kid did was *like* someone else's post. And frankly, at the moment, all any of the rookie class has going for it is hype. Nobody has done anything yet. We've seen an awfully lot of Euro stars wash out.

Maybe he'll be a star - personally I would have loved if we could have grabbed him somehow - but he could be ""just" a solid bench player.

Quote from the article:

MVP of Euroleague can’t be overrated. A injured player who has not played 5 college games can be overrated. #Facts

That's Euro players overreacting right there. MVP is mildly impressive, but still means nothing from an NBA perspective. Most Euro players couldn't make a G-League team, so saying MVP "can't be overrated" is just as ridiculous IMHO. The list of past MVP's ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EuroLeague_MVP#Winners ) is a veritable "who's who" of non-impactful players, only one of whom had much of an impact in the NBA.

Most Euro players couldn't make a G-League team

G league is filled with guys who can't land actual pro contract anywhere in the world.
Last 2 of last 5 G league MVPs are in China now, one is in Europe, 2 of them are in NBA, they combine 5,3 ppg.

How can somebody who did something that has never been done before in Europe be overrated, playing second strongest league in basketball ?

[rcklsscognition]

What happened with his back? Goes in for 2nd cleanup, everyone freaks out, now he's aiming for early in the season return and beating Trae in a 3pt shootout at a photoshoot?

He's got to stay out as long as possible for the sake of his career.

[MagicMatic]

What happened with his back? Goes in for 2nd cleanup, everyone freaks out, now he's aiming for early in the season return and beating Trae in a 3pt shootout at a photoshoot?

He's got to stay out as long as possible for the sake of his career.

I don’t know why, but I never bought the fact that he was truly injured. Kyrie also missed his only year at Duke and didn’t drop 1 spot in the draft. I couldn’t tell you what MPJrs reason for that would be if it were true, but I just don’t buy the timeline / info on it at all.

[MagicFan101]

What happened with his back? Goes in for 2nd cleanup, everyone freaks out, now he's aiming for early in the season return and beating Trae in a 3pt shootout at a photoshoot?

He's got to stay out as long as possible for the sake of his career.

I don’t know why, but I never bought the fact that he was truly injured. Kyrie also missed his only year at Duke and didn’t drop 1 spot in the draft. I couldn’t tell you what MPJrs reason for that would be if it were true, but I just don’t buy the timeline / info on it at all.

It has been a while but if I’m not mistaken, Kyrie was taken out due to a big toe injury. This is far less concerning than a major back injury.

[MagicMatic]

What happened with his back? Goes in for 2nd cleanup, everyone freaks out, now he's aiming for early in the season return and beating Trae in a 3pt shootout at a photoshoot?

He's got to stay out as long as possible for the sake of his career.

I don’t know why, but I never bought the fact that he was truly injured. Kyrie also missed his only year at Duke and didn’t drop 1 spot in the draft. I couldn’t tell you what MPJrs reason for that would be if it were true, but I just don’t buy the timeline / info on it at all.

It has been a while but if I’m not mistaken, Kyrie was taken out due to a big toe injury. This is far less concerning than a major back injury.

Correct. I guess I just don’t buy the combination of Porter’s injury details, recovery timeline, and information pre/post draft. I don’t have any evidence for this, I just feel that something doesn’t add up. If he actually suits up for an “early” return this year, it will add to my skepticism.

[MagicFan101]

I don’t know why, but I never bought the fact that he was truly injured. Kyrie also missed his only year at Duke and didn’t drop 1 spot in the draft. I couldn’t tell you what MPJrs reason for that would be if it were true, but I just don’t buy the timeline / info on it at all.

It has been a while but if I’m not mistaken, Kyrie was taken out due to a big toe injury. This is far less concerning than a major back injury.

Correct. I guess I just don’t buy the combination of Porter’s injury details, recovery timeline, and information pre/post draft. I don’t have any evidence for this, I just feel that something doesn’t add up. If he actually suits up for an “early” return this year, it will add to my skepticism.

It wouldn’t be the first time a college athlete saved themself from injury by faking an injury.

However, in most cases this is for a top overall lock who still goes #1. MPjr was as sure a top 3 pick as Ayton and Doncic yet fell FAR. I struggle to believe someone does that intentionally.

The before and after take on MPjr is scary and I’m not talking about a rusty jump shot. My only hope was that we did see freakish spurts. He was absolutely worth a game where he was picked but I fear the player he could have been no longer exists.

[OrlandO]

What happened with his back? Goes in for 2nd cleanup, everyone freaks out, now he's aiming for early in the season return and beating Trae in a 3pt shootout at a photoshoot?

He's got to stay out as long as possible for the sake of his career.

Back surgery gets him back on his feet quickly since it eliminates the cause of the pain, but he's still damaged goods. He "felt great" and "better than ever" shortly after his first surgery and looked "great" months later at his pro day workout... still resulted in pain and a second back surgery.

[OrlandO]

What happened with his back? Goes in for 2nd cleanup, everyone freaks out, now he's aiming for early in the season return and beating Trae in a 3pt shootout at a photoshoot?

He's got to stay out as long as possible for the sake of his career.

I don’t know why, but I never bought the fact that he was truly injured. Kyrie also missed his only year at Duke and didn’t drop 1 spot in the draft. I couldn’t tell you what MPJrs reason for that would be if it were true, but I just don’t buy the timeline / info on it at all.

What's so strange about the injuries and timelines though?

[Xatticus]

It has been a while but if I’m not mistaken, Kyrie was taken out due to a big toe injury. This is far less concerning than a major back injury.

Correct. I guess I just don’t buy the combination of Porter’s injury details, recovery timeline, and information pre/post draft. I don’t have any evidence for this, I just feel that something doesn’t add up. If he actually suits up for an “early” return this year, it will add to my skepticism.

It wouldn’t be the first time a college athlete saved themself from injury by faking an injury.

However, in most cases this is for a top overall lock who still goes #1. MPjr was as sure a top 3 pick as Ayton and Doncic yet fell FAR. I struggle to believe someone does that intentionally.

The before and after take on MPjr is scary and I’m not talking about a rusty jump shot. My only hope was that we did see freakish spurts. He was absolutely worth a game where he was picked but I fear the player he could have been no longer exists.

Occam's razor. He has undergone two surgeries and tried to come back at the end of last season. I don't think there really is any discussion to be had regarding the legitimacy of his injury.

His injury aside, I just don't see the talent. I see an inferior version of Carmelo Anthony. Assuming he stays healthy, he is going to take a lot of shots, score a lot of points, and make a lot of money on teams that don't win many games. That's enough to impress some folks around here, but it does nothing for me.

When you strip basketball down to its core elements, the game is about alternating possessions. Genuine value comes from only three sources: increasing your team's offensive efficiency, decreasing the opposition's offensive efficiency, and creating extra possessions. Taking a larger share of your own team's possessions gets you paid, but it doesn't help the team unless you are highly efficient in doing so.

Every lottery prospect is overrated. It's just the nature of the process. We dream of what they might become while ignoring their deficiencies. Once their rookie seasons start, the luster quickly begins to fade for the vast majority of them. That said, I find it highly ironic that Michael Porter Jr. has attached himself to the notion that Luka Doncic is overrated.

[MagicMatic]

What happened with his back? Goes in for 2nd cleanup, everyone freaks out, now he's aiming for early in the season return and beating Trae in a 3pt shootout at a photoshoot?

He's got to stay out as long as possible for the sake of his career.

I don’t know why, but I never bought the fact that he was truly injured. Kyrie also missed his only year at Duke and didn’t drop 1 spot in the draft. I couldn’t tell you what MPJrs reason for that would be if it were true, but I just don’t buy the timeline / info on it at all.

What's so strange about the injuries and timelines though?

Gets injured in the very beginning of the college season.
Out until the tournament.
Comes back looks bad as expected.
Enters draft and works out for a few teams.
Injury “flares up” and misses the rest of workouts.
Falls in draft.
Now he is “pain free” and looking to play in a few months. (?)

If his injuries (of that magnitude) were legitimate he would miss more time with a very serious disk/back injury.. The whole situation just doesn’t seem right to me for whatever reason.

Injuries aside, It also doesn’t help that his dad was given a coaching gig at Mizzou after decommitting from Washington. There is a lot of red flags about Porter that I don’t like. That being said, I think he is still a good prospect and can be really good if it all pans out for him.

[OrlandO]

I don’t know why, but I never bought the fact that he was truly injured. Kyrie also missed his only year at Duke and didn’t drop 1 spot in the draft. I couldn’t tell you what MPJrs reason for that would be if it were true, but I just don’t buy the timeline / info on it at all.

What's so strange about the injuries and timelines though?

Gets injured in the very beginning of the college season.
Out until the tournament.
Comes back looks bad as expected.
Enters draft and works out for a few teams.
Injury “flares up” and misses the rest of workouts.
Falls in draft.
Now he is “pain free” and looking to play in a few months. (?)

If his injuries (of that magnitude) were legitimate he would miss more time with a very serious disk/back injury.. The whole situation just doesn’t seem right to me for whatever reason.

Injuries aside, It also doesn’t help that his dad was given a coaching gig at Mizzou after decommitting from Washington. There is a lot of red flags about Porter that I don’t like. That being said, I think he is still a good prospect and can be really good if it all pans out for him.

None of that is surprising. I think for back surgery like this short-term recovery is supposed to be quick. You walk in and out the same day of surgery. Athletes can resume non-contact stuff in a matter of weeks and can resume competition a few months later. That's basically how it played out for Porter.... surgery to running/shooting in a gym in 1 month and cleared for games in 3.5 months. Doesn't mean it wasn't a serious injury with potential to be devastating to his career.

Don't really see anything odd about the injury resurfacing either... isn't that the nature of back injuries? That hip pain that caused him to cancel his workout was a symptom and sign he had a setback to his back, so it really wasn't surprising to see him fall in the draft and find out he required a second surgery after the draft. The concern for him with his injury has always been long-term durability and vulnerability to re-injury. It's not going to matter how good he is when healthy if he has nagging back issues his whole career and has to retire early. The rehab timeline is the same the second time... he is back to running/shooting 1 month after surgery and he hopes to play in games 3.5 months after surgery. But just because he hopes to return early in the season doesn't mean that's how it will play out... the first time the decision was all him, but this time the nuggets have a say in how they manage their investment.

[MagicMatic]

What's so strange about the injuries and timelines though?

Gets injured in the very beginning of the college season.
Out until the tournament.
Comes back looks bad as expected.
Enters draft and works out for a few teams.
Injury “flares up” and misses the rest of workouts.
Falls in draft.
Now he is “pain free” and looking to play in a few months. (?)

If his injuries (of that magnitude) were legitimate he would miss more time with a very serious disk/back injury.. The whole situation just doesn’t seem right to me for whatever reason.

Injuries aside, It also doesn’t help that his dad was given a coaching gig at Mizzou after decommitting from Washington. There is a lot of red flags about Porter that I don’t like. That being said, I think he is still a good prospect and can be really good if it all pans out for him.

None of that is surprising. I think for back surgery like this short-term recovery is supposed to be quick. You walk in and out the same day of surgery. Athletes can resume non-contact stuff in a matter of weeks and can resume competition a few months later. That's basically how it played out for Porter.... surgery to running/shooting in a gym in 1 month and cleared for games in 3.5 months. Doesn't mean it wasn't a serious injury with potential to be devastating to his career.

Don't really see anything odd about the injury resurfacing either... isn't that the nature of back injuries? That hip pain that caused him to cancel his workout was a symptom and sign he had a setback to his back, so it really wasn't surprising to see him fall in the draft and find out he required a second surgery after the draft. The concern for him with his injury has always been long-term durability and vulnerability to re-injury. It's not going to matter how good he is when healthy if he has nagging back issues his whole career and has to retire early. The rehab timeline is the same the second time... he is back to running/shooting 1 month after surgery and he hopes to play in games 3.5 months after surgery. But just because he hopes to return early in the season doesn't mean that's how it will play out... the first time the decision was all him, but this time the nuggets have a say in how they manage their investment.

I’m not trying to convince anyone as to why I view his situation as sketchy.

Sure that’s all well and good, but if the surgery is supposed to be a quick recovery then why sit out the entire season only to return for a poor performance in the tournament? Similar to working out with teams. Why work out if he isn’t ready and he is disclosing the information to teams regardless. Either way, both situations are bad. It doesn’t work both ways.

New information stating how he is painless and feels great is questionable. Why? Because it either says he’s going to continue to have a nagging injury, is a really poor judge of the injury, didn’t get proper rehabilitation, or falsified information for whatever reason.

That being said, I was a proponent of drafting Porter at a certain time in the draft. In retrospect I’m glad we didn’t because chances are high his injury will limit him.

[pepe1991]

Prior workouts he said he is good to go, and on draft night he was limping like grandfather.

I saw on instagram that he said he liked post about Doncic by accident, called him and said it was accident.

Maybe it was, i see no reason why should Porter feel that about Doncic when other 12 players were drafted ahead of him.

In general he should shut a hell up and recover/prepare for season if he can play.

[OrlandO]

Gets injured in the very beginning of the college season.
Out until the tournament.
Comes back looks bad as expected.
Enters draft and works out for a few teams.
Injury “flares up” and misses the rest of workouts.
Falls in draft.
Now he is “pain free” and looking to play in a few months. (?)

If his injuries (of that magnitude) were legitimate he would miss more time with a very serious disk/back injury.. The whole situation just doesn’t seem right to me for whatever reason.

Injuries aside, It also doesn’t help that his dad was given a coaching gig at Mizzou after decommitting from Washington. There is a lot of red flags about Porter that I don’t like. That being said, I think he is still a good prospect and can be really good if it all pans out for him.

None of that is surprising. I think for back surgery like this short-term recovery is supposed to be quick. You walk in and out the same day of surgery. Athletes can resume non-contact stuff in a matter of weeks and can resume competition a few months later. That's basically how it played out for Porter.... surgery to running/shooting in a gym in 1 month and cleared for games in 3.5 months. Doesn't mean it wasn't a serious injury with potential to be devastating to his career.

Don't really see anything odd about the injury resurfacing either... isn't that the nature of back injuries? That hip pain that caused him to cancel his workout was a symptom and sign he had a setback to his back, so it really wasn't surprising to see him fall in the draft and find out he required a second surgery after the draft. The concern for him with his injury has always been long-term durability and vulnerability to re-injury. It's not going to matter how good he is when healthy if he has nagging back issues his whole career and has to retire early. The rehab timeline is the same the second time... he is back to running/shooting 1 month after surgery and he hopes to play in games 3.5 months after surgery. But just because he hopes to return early in the season doesn't mean that's how it will play out... the first time the decision was all him, but this time the nuggets have a say in how they manage their investment.

I’m not trying to convince anyone as to why I view his situation as sketchy.

Sure that’s all well and good, but if the surgery is supposed to be a quick recovery then why sit out the entire season only to return for a poor performance in the tournament? Similar to working out with teams. Why work out if he isn’t ready and he is disclosing the information to teams regardless. Either way, both situations are bad. It doesn’t work both ways.

New information stating how he is painless and feels great is questionable. Why? Because it either says he’s going to continue to have a nagging injury, is a really poor judge of the injury, didn’t get proper rehabilitation, or falsified information for whatever reason.

That being said, I was a proponent of drafting Porter at a certain time in the draft. In retrospect I’m glad we didn’t because chances are high his injury will limit him.

Quick short term recovery meaning he was walking immediately after and able to start basic exercises a week or so later... not stuck in some bed for weeks like some seem to assume happens after "back surgery." He still needed the season to fully rehab and get cleared. Nothing abnormal about all that.

He probably only returned in an attempt to save his draft stock by showing he was on track. Not being in game shape and being rusty isn't what killed his draft stock. He was also fine for his initial workout as it was reported he looked good. Unfortunately for him his back reacted poorly to it, so it ended up backfiring as he wasnt able to fulfill his final workout. That's what killed his stock. Nightmare situation for him for his back to go out at the worst time... it cost him millions.

Feeling great right now is not new and it means nothing. Of course he feels great after surgery eliminated the pain... just like he felt great after his first surgery. The kid is just being optimistic. He could easily have another setback, especially after his back already had trouble holding up on the first go.

Yes, having lingering back issues is a bad look... it's what scared teams away. His durability will be in question for years even if he returns quickly and looks good in the short term.

[Skybox]

That's how back injuries work. Lots of unpredictability. He might be fine or he might never be fine. Denver made a great pick and may look like geniuses. At the spot, you go for it. He may also play one game in his career - even though he feels great today. It's a crapshoot. I will never fault Denver for taking him so low but if you gambled on him in the top 5, you'd be questioned for sure. I know someone that spoke with someone who reviewed his meds and said "Nope". I wish him luck but it's very cloudy.

[OrlandO]

That's how back injuries work. Lots of unpredictability. He might be fine or he might never be fine. Denver made a great pick and may look like geniuses. At the spot, you go for it. He may also play one game in his career - even though he feels great today. It's a crapshoot. I will never fault Denver for taking him so low but if you gambled on him in the top 5, you'd be questioned for sure. I know someone that spoke with someone who reviewed his meds and said "Nope". I wish him luck but it's very cloudy.

I was willing to gamble on him until he canceled his workout, which was a huge flag that his back recovery hit a roadblock (hip pain can be related to back issues, and in his case it was obvious that was the cause). I don't like his odds of staying healthy after the second surgery... that only increased the risk of further injuries.

[Blue_and_Whte]

I don’t know why, but I never bought the fact that he was truly injured. Kyrie also missed his only year at Duke and didn’t drop 1 spot in the draft. I couldn’t tell you what MPJrs reason for that would be if it were true, but I just don’t buy the timeline / info on it at all.

What's so strange about the injuries and timelines though?

Gets injured in the very beginning of the college season.
Out until the tournament.
Comes back looks bad as expected.
Enters draft and works out for a few teams.
Injury “flares up” and misses the rest of workouts.
Falls in draft.
Now he is “pain free” and looking to play in a few months. (?)

If his injuries (of that magnitude) were legitimate he would miss more time with a very serious disk/back injury.. The whole situation just doesn’t seem right to me for whatever reason.

Injuries aside, It also doesn’t help that his dad was given a coaching gig at Mizzou after decommitting from Washington. There is a lot of red flags about Porter that I don’t like. That being said, I think he is still a good prospect and can be really good if it all pans out for him.

Im predicting volume shooter that'll have a few big nights but overall not contributing to wins. Imo Doncic is and will be the superior NBA player.

[MagicFan101]

Correct. I guess I just don’t buy the combination of Porter’s injury details, recovery timeline, and information pre/post draft. I don’t have any evidence for this, I just feel that something doesn’t add up. If he actually suits up for an “early” return this year, it will add to my skepticism.

It wouldn’t be the first time a college athlete saved themself from injury by faking an injury.

However, in most cases this is for a top overall lock who still goes #1. MPjr was as sure a top 3 pick as Ayton and Doncic yet fell FAR. I struggle to believe someone does that intentionally.

The before and after take on MPjr is scary and I’m not talking about a rusty jump shot. My only hope was that we did see freakish spurts. He was absolutely worth a game where he was picked but I fear the player he could have been no longer exists.

Occam's razor. He has undergone two surgeries and tried to come back at the end of last season. I don't think there really is any discussion to be had regarding the legitimacy of his injury.

His injury aside, I just don't see the talent. I see an inferior version of Carmelo Anthony. Assuming he stays healthy, he is going to take a lot of shots, score a lot of points, and make a lot of money on teams that don't win many games. That's enough to impress some folks around here, but it does nothing for me.

When you strip basketball down to its core elements, the game is about alternating possessions. Genuine value comes from only three sources: increasing your team's offensive efficiency, decreasing the opposition's offensive efficiency, and creating extra possessions. Taking a larger share of your own team's possessions gets you paid, but it doesn't help the team unless you are highly efficient in doing so.

Every lottery prospect is overrated. It's just the nature of the process. We dream of what they might become while ignoring their deficiencies. Once their rookie seasons start, the luster quickly begins to fade for the vast majority of them. That said, I find it highly ironic that Michael Porter Jr. has attached himself to the notion that Luka Doncic is overrated.

While I don’t disagree with anything you said here, I just have a different take.

There is no doubt that MPjr’s value was more in his freakish combination of athletic ability, size and length than pure basketball talent / IQ at this stage. However, he wasn’t the project so many of you here believe. He was FAR ahead of the likes of AG at that while while having, arguably, even more impressive physical gifts. AG may not have won over everyone here based on draft spot but a better basketball talent than AG with every bit of the physical gifts is a damn good player.

Sadly, the physical gifts are unlikely to ever return and he does not have the raw basketball talent to compensate for that.

[Audi]

Is it not possible that Porter just dominated in high school but would/will bust (moreso “greatly underperform” in this case) in the NBA, regardless of injury?

I mean - once we start seeing the draft stocked with HS/AAU prospects, we are going to see a lot of busts. With the exception of a couple college games where he looked like garbage, MPJr is no different than one of those prospects.

[MagicFan101]

Gets injured in the very beginning of the college season.
Out until the tournament.
Comes back looks bad as expected.
Enters draft and works out for a few teams.
Injury “flares up” and misses the rest of workouts.
Falls in draft.
Now he is “pain free” and looking to play in a few months. (?)

If his injuries (of that magnitude) were legitimate he would miss more time with a very serious disk/back injury.. The whole situation just doesn’t seem right to me for whatever reason.

Injuries aside, It also doesn’t help that his dad was given a coaching gig at Mizzou after decommitting from Washington. There is a lot of red flags about Porter that I don’t like. That being said, I think he is still a good prospect and can be really good if it all pans out for him.

None of that is surprising. I think for back surgery like this short-term recovery is supposed to be quick. You walk in and out the same day of surgery. Athletes can resume non-contact stuff in a matter of weeks and can resume competition a few months later. That's basically how it played out for Porter.... surgery to running/shooting in a gym in 1 month and cleared for games in 3.5 months. Doesn't mean it wasn't a serious injury with potential to be devastating to his career.

Don't really see anything odd about the injury resurfacing either... isn't that the nature of back injuries? That hip pain that caused him to cancel his workout was a symptom and sign he had a setback to his back, so it really wasn't surprising to see him fall in the draft and find out he required a second surgery after the draft. The concern for him with his injury has always been long-term durability and vulnerability to re-injury. It's not going to matter how good he is when healthy if he has nagging back issues his whole career and has to retire early. The rehab timeline is the same the second time... he is back to running/shooting 1 month after surgery and he hopes to play in games 3.5 months after surgery. But just because he hopes to return early in the season doesn't mean that's how it will play out... the first time the decision was all him, but this time the nuggets have a say in how they manage their investment.

I’m not trying to convince anyone as to why I view his situation as sketchy.

Sure that’s all well and good, but if the surgery is supposed to be a quick recovery then why sit out the entire season only to return for a poor performance in the tournament? Similar to working out with teams. Why work out if he isn’t ready and he is disclosing the information to teams regardless. Either way, both situations are bad. It doesn’t work both ways.

New information stating how he is painless and feels great is questionable. Why? Because it either says he’s going to continue to have a nagging injury, is a really poor judge of the injury, didn’t get proper rehabilitation, or falsified information for whatever reason.

That being said, I was a proponent of drafting Porter at a certain time in the draft. In retrospect I’m glad we didn’t because chances are high his injury will limit him.

Or perhaps a once prized recruit is still sulking over missing a season, falling in the draft and being labeled a bust? Perhaps that leads him (not the team or his doctors) to come out and say he feels great and wants to play early?

His comments don’t add up from the view point of reality but they make perfect sense from the view point of a kid feeling lost following a serious injury and a career possibly derailed before it began.

THAT is what is off with all of this.... not the injury itself.