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Official Speculation Thread ‘17-18’: XVIII: The Long Wait Continues

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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘17-18’: XVIII: The Long Wait Continues 

Post#1941 » by rcklsscognition » Mon Oct 15, 2018 6:54 pm

Not sure how many videos but they start tomorrow.

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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘17-18’: XVIII: The Long Wait Continues 

Post#1942 » by Blue_and_Whte » Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:49 pm

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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘17-18’: XVIII: The Long Wait Continues 

Post#1943 » by Catledge » Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:53 pm

Put me down as opposed to the suggestion that we should trade all of our vets for nothing just to give time to our young guys.

IMO, an NBA team can typically sustain a maximum of two very young players in the rotation and still expect to execute plays consistently. Really, we're already asking a lot with just Isaac and Bamba. It's crazy to think we'll be able to add big minutes for other young guys like Birch and Briscoe while still running any kind of cohesive system, and we will never know how good Isaac and Bamba are if we can't play them in a functioning system.

If your answer is that none of that matters because the point is to tank, you're talking about putting us in a situation next year where we are trying to develop at least three very young guys after Isaac and Bamba have picked up the bad habits that come with tank seasons.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘17-18’: XVIII: The Long Wait Continues 

Post#1944 » by NEM » Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:58 pm

Lmao I see Nemesis is still at it. Name calling, insulting, you know, the usual :lol:
I live rent free in your head. You know who you are :D

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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘17-18’: XVIII: The Long Wait Continues 

Post#1945 » by Blue_and_Whte » Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:00 pm

Catledge wrote:Put me down as opposed to the suggestion that we should trade all of our vets for nothing just to give time to our young guys.

IMO, an NBA team can typically sustain a maximum of two very young players in the rotation and still expect to execute plays consistently. Really, we're already asking a lot with just Isaac and Bamba. It's crazy to think we'll be able to add big minutes for other young guys like Birch and Briscoe while still running any kind of cohesive system, and we will never know how good Isaac and Bamba are if we can't play them in a functioning system.

If your answer is that none of that matters because the point is to tank, you're talking about putting us in a situation next year where we are trying to develop at least three very young guys after Isaac and Bamba have picked up the bad habits that come with tank seasons.
correct. There seems to be a consensus that the only way young players “learn” is when they’re gifted all minutes and shot attempts, not to mention the irrational hate for anyone over 24.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘17-18’: XVIII: The Long Wait Continues 

Post#1946 » by MagicFan4Lyfe » Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:11 pm

Considering we have to watch another season of Vuc, Fournier and Simmons make us suck but not suck enough for a high lottery pick is going to put me into a bad mood all year long
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘17-18’: XVIII: The Long Wait Continues 

Post#1947 » by Def Swami » Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:29 pm

Hey guys! Only 2 more da - WTF HAPPENED HERE?

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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘17-18’: XVIII: The Long Wait Continues 

Post#1948 » by SOUL » Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:36 pm

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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘17-18’: XVIII: The Long Wait Continues 

Post#1949 » by Blue_and_Whte » Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:46 pm



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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘17-18’: XVIII: The Long Wait Continues 

Post#1950 » by SOUL » Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:48 pm

darthcheech2000 wrote:
PennytoShaq wrote:
darthcheech2000 wrote:
Wouldn't the "better return" you're talking about manifest itself in a better lottery pick. Thats value enough for me!



Actually, no it would not necessarily. It’s easy to forget that the Magic were not even projected to be a bottom 5 team last year until the injuries hit. Reality is that the Mavs, Kings, Hawks, Nets..etc were all incredibly bad.

Fast forward to this year where the lotto odds are not the same and it makes no sense.

Furthermore, if you take into account the “Vuc Sucks” logic, which basically is that Vuc sucks and we would be better without him - then why would trading him be a guarantee that we get worse? We may actually be better.

There are many guys in the echo chamber here who say that Clifford is an antiquated coach and playing 2 bigs is terrible. So based on their logic how would trading Vuc and going smaller do anything but make us better?



Thats the thing, I think Vuc is good, better than Bamba, and even Isaac/AG actually... right now.


Yeah, but this is only relevant if Vuc didn't have 6-7 years on the team already with no real winning impact (hard to do alone, but my point is, we know who he is already) and there's a 5% chance he resigns and that's it. And this isn't strictly blaming Vuc, this can go for a few guys on this roster. I'd even take some of them on different roles on this team. But yeah, It doesn't matter if he's the best player on the team or not. It's sort of similar to the "winning games at the end of season" argument that it's actually good for next season, and that was proven wrong time and time again. Keeping Vuc on the roster makes no sense unless Clifford wants to take us to the playoffs (he does), but even then, we're a first round out. I feel like it's a lose/lose situation in a sense if we win playing a lot of players that don't factor into the team in a year or two, or worse, we make stupid roster moves because of being an "okay" team.

Just tired of delayed rebuilding and minimized roles for top draft picks. There's a way to both get them involved, but not giving them 35 minutes a game if they're not ready for it. Bamba has already shown that he has an ability to impact the game, dare I say much quicker than anybody we've drafted so far, at least from preseason/Summer League. Oladipo did as well but he still looked a bit reckless.

I'm not even saying I flat out want to tank. I don't care if we win or lose playing our future, never have. It's when we've tried to do some weird mix and barely involve them and still lose that pisses me off.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘17-18’: XVIII: The Long Wait Continues 

Post#1951 » by Skybox » Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:53 pm

Nemesis21 wrote:
Knightro wrote:
Nemesis21 wrote:You think that that is hard for me or something?? I've already done it, but you probably weren't around then. I took the first year post Dwight off.

And when I win, you have to leave the board FOREVER.


Since you suddenly think you have balls.


Fine, but I want the same offer from you.

The loser of the bet leaves the board forever.

I'm 100% a man of my word and will absolutely leave and never come back if I lose, but I have a feeling most of the people on here are going to be rooting for me and not you.



Yeah well that's your stupid opinion, because you are stupid. You are so full of yourself. I'm not as hated as you think I am around here. But you know again you are stupid.

I'm not the one making bets that people have to leave. You aren't Howard Mass. You don't get to decide that for anyone.


Didn't you say you were going away?
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘17-18’: XVIII: The Long Wait Continues 

Post#1952 » by Skybox » Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:55 pm

Clippers just waived Jawun Evans....didn't a few people here think he was Chris Paul's JV version? All kidding aside, should we grab him for next to zip or is he just out of the NBA?
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘17-18’: XVIII: The Long Wait Continues 

Post#1953 » by Knightro » Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:01 pm

Skybox wrote:Clippers just waived Jawun Evans....didn't a few people here think he was Chris Paul's JV version? All kidding aside, should we grab him for next to zip or is he just out of the NBA?


Is he better than Briscoe?
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘17-18’: XVIII: The Long Wait Continues 

Post#1954 » by MagicFan4Lyfe » Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:02 pm

Skybox wrote:Clippers just waived Jawun Evans....didn't a few people here think he was Chris Paul's JV version? All kidding aside, should we grab him for next to zip or is he just out of the NBA?


Who?
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘17-18’: XVIII: The Long Wait Continues 

Post#1955 » by Knightro » Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:18 pm

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Looks like Briscoe and Martin will be active over Frazier for the opener.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘17-18’: XVIII: The Long Wait Continues 

Post#1956 » by MagicMatic » Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:26 pm

SOUL wrote:
darthcheech2000 wrote:
PennytoShaq wrote:

Actually, no it would not necessarily. It’s easy to forget that the Magic were not even projected to be a bottom 5 team last year until the injuries hit. Reality is that the Mavs, Kings, Hawks, Nets..etc were all incredibly bad.

Fast forward to this year where the lotto odds are not the same and it makes no sense.

Furthermore, if you take into account the “Vuc Sucks” logic, which basically is that Vuc sucks and we would be better without him - then why would trading him be a guarantee that we get worse? We may actually be better.

There are many guys in the echo chamber here who say that Clifford is an antiquated coach and playing 2 bigs is terrible. So based on their logic how would trading Vuc and going smaller do anything but make us better?



Thats the thing, I think Vuc is good, better than Bamba, and even Isaac/AG actually... right now.


Yeah, but this is only relevant if Vuc didn't have 6-7 years on the team already with no real winning impact (hard to do alone, but my point is, we know who he is already) and there's a 5% chance he resigns and that's it. And this isn't strictly blaming Vuc, this can go for a few guys on this roster. I'd even take some of them on different roles on this team. But yeah, It doesn't matter if he's the best player on the team or not. It's sort of similar to the "winning games at the end of season" argument that it's actually good for next season, and that was proven wrong time and time again. Keeping Vuc on the roster makes no sense unless Clifford wants to take us to the playoffs (he does), but even then, we're a first round out. I feel like it's a lose/lose situation in a sense if we win playing a lot of players that don't factor into the team in a year or two, or worse, we make stupid roster moves because of being an "okay" team.

Just tired of delayed rebuilding and minimized roles for top draft picks. There's a way to both get them involved, but not giving them 35 minutes a game if they're not ready for it. Bamba has already shown that he has an ability to impact the game, dare I say much quicker than anybody we've drafted so far, at least from preseason/Summer League. Oladipo did as well but he still looked a bit reckless.

I'm not even saying I flat out want to tank. I don't care if we win or lose playing our future, never have. It's when we've tried to do some weird mix and barely involve them and still lose that pisses me off.


Well said. I don’t think losing develops a mentality or creates bad habits if you stick to your coach and the only thing lacking is talent. People think Joel Embiid or Simmons were negatively effected in their first years in Philly? Nah. I don’t buy it.

People use this argument all the time against giving young guys playing time and letting them figure it out. Also, we are already a pretty bad team with or without the usual suspects. Except the end result will be in game experience and a higher chance at a top pick instead of some fabricated mental state.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘17-18’: XVIII: The Long Wait Continues 

Post#1957 » by pepe1991 » Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:50 pm

PennytoShaq wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:Prime Thyme is saying clear and obvious fact.
Instad of bottoming out and being simply -sorry a** tankers last year (and this one) Magic made conscious decision to be threadmill team. Not bad enough to be on bottom, not good enough to be good.

Everbody knows that 57 years old Clifford was bad decision.
Everybody knows that Vučević is complimentary player who will once again thrown as go to guy.
Everybody knows Magic will be out of playoff race by mid December.
Everybody knows that Vučević and Ross won't resign.

So why pretend that this team is one Anthony Davis/Durant/Lebron away from turning a corner when they constantly put themselfs in position to botch that type of lottery jackpots?
It's no brainer that superstar is instant game changer , instad of going for that guy Magic are perfeclly fine with drafting guys like Isaac who's celiing has been downgraded by fact that now he will never become C under Magic, and that might be best position for him anyway.

Magic always make that type of decisions. It's not just Isaac.
Magic drafted Oladipo than promoted Evan as SG.
Magic drafted Hezonja in same year they gave Harris contract.
Magic saw potential in Gordon than traded for Ibaka and kicked him off position.
Now with Isaac they are kicking Gordon back out of his natural position, in same time Isaac has zero perimeter skills on offense and would be probably better used as small ball C,but since Magic went big ,with Bamba he will never be able to play it.


Making an absolute statement does not make it a fact. The sooner you accept that, the easier time you will have.

Example - Not everyone knows that Clifford was a bad hire. We haven’t even played game 1 and you marry yourself to ridiculous statements like this. Clifford could very well be the coach who teaches these guys how to play effective NBA basketball and gets rid of the crappy freelance habits some of these guys have built. What would a “tank”coach have done? Looks like the plan is to have Clifford coach the team and then after him, develop a young assistant to take over like Nurse did for Toronto. Doesn’t seem like a bad decision, and it’s definitely not something that can be decided upon before the season even starts.

Suddenly you want to act like Isaac is only going to be good as a Center in the NBA? Man, that’s just embarrassing hate, but has been the norm with you and any player you don’t like. Of course, your track record has been spotty at best. I think many people here saw your endless rants on Mario on OPP. You are not exactly a future NBA GM, so let’s not try and play pretend here.

Last year around this time you stated that AG could never shoot the 3, and yet he ended up shooting over 33% - which was a huge league from sub 28 the year before. But now you want to double down and say Isaac has zero perimeter skills - because why not right? Let’s just say anything and hope it happens, and if not, scramble for stats that show a player who made you look foolish is still not good in your eyes? This summer when Isaac showed some signs of offense you immediately shouted everyone down and caused daily arguments because you were so upset to see that a Magic player actually went against your “projections”.

We really are going to complain about Isaac kicking AG out of his “natural position” after saying all year that AG did “not deserve max” and after many of us told you he would most likely get 17-18 a year (he did), and now suddenly the concern is for AG’s future here? That’s amazing.

The FO resigned AG on a fair deal to see how these guys will play together and then to trade one of it doesn’t work out. It’s pretty obvious. AG had 18 a game last year and will probably average 18-20 this year while being forced to play more efficiently by Cliffordwhich means that he is an actual trade asset for us, unlike Vuc and DJ. Keeping a young asset on a good deal is never a bad move by a FO. If the worse case is that AG and ISaac play next to each other - cry me a river. Honestly, it’s just reaching to find a reason to complain at this point.



Making an absolute statement does not make it a fact. The sooner you accept that, the easier time you will have.

Really? But you do it all the time with blind defense of every move ( or lack of moves) that Weltman and Hammond did. Litearlly findin excuse after excuse for everything,acting there is master plan in place , without single evidence of that.

Example - Not everyone knows that Clifford was a bad hire. We haven’t even played game 1 and you marry yourself to ridiculous statements like this. Clifford could very well be the coach who teaches these guys how to play effective NBA basketball and gets rid of the crappy freelance habits some of these guys have built


See this is why i hate posts like this. You post clear lie ,that you can't support yet you act like it's true. Clifford by all accounts CAN'T run effective offense and for career he is below .500 as coach. That makes him inferior to guys like Frank Vogel who won 58% of games. But heeey,who needs fact when he can post opinions as facts , right Penny?


Suddenly you want to act like Isaac is only going to be good as a Center in the NBA? Man, that’s just embarrassing hate, but has been the norm with you and any player you don’t like. Of course, your track record has been spotty at best. I think many people here saw your endless rants on Mario on OPP. You are not exactly a future NBA GM, so let’s not try and play pretend here.


Funny, this summer i put up your old qoutes in one debate proving that you are wish-washy about everything and you switch sides in arguments fast. As usual, sneaky personal insults from poster who reported me for doing one few months ago, time to return favor ;)
Isaac thing, guy is 7 footer that can't really do much on perimeter, but has ability to defend well and block shots. Everything Cs need nowdays. Clear as a day. Skin made whole "Isaac is a C" thread year ago.


Last year around this time you stated that AG could never shoot the 3, and yet he ended up shooting over 33% - which was a huge league from sub 28 the year before.

Did you sleep through 2018 where Gordon shot 27% ofr 3 over 4 months,yet finished with 33% due smoking hot one month?
Did you sleep through season where Gordon was one of worst iso scorers mostly because he was settling for terrible step back 3s?

As Prime Thyme said, your snarky , "im better than everybody" type of posting is annoying as hell. Also you are picking fights with everybody last few weeks because you feel need to defend every single move that front office did in last year and half .Even defending moves that did not happen.


I didn't even going to reply but you really had to throw sneaky personal attack didn't you?
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘17-18’: XVIII: The Long Wait Continues 

Post#1958 » by Knightro » Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:45 am

pepe1991 wrote:As Prime Thyme said, your snarky , "im better than everybody" type of posting is annoying as hell. Also you are picking fights with everybody last few weeks because you feel need to defend every single move that front office did in last year and half .Even defending moves that did not happen.


I don't mean to speak for anyone else, but at the end of the day the extreme pessimism towards EVERYTHING on this board just gets tiresome.

I'm not suggesting everyone should support every single thing the Magic do no matter what, but there are ways to question what they're doing without being insufferable.

Some of us want to be optimistic about things and try and actually enjoy the 30th season of Magic basketball.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘17-18’: XVIII: The Long Wait Continues 

Post#1959 » by OrlandoDream » Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:02 am

Skybox wrote:Clippers just waived Jawun Evans....didn't a few people here think he was Chris Paul's JV version? All kidding aside, should we grab him for next to zip or is he just out of the NBA?

He prob wont get PT on this team. CLif loves DJ and his backup right now is Grant followed by Briscoe. Briscoe is the one I want to see. He needs to get his chance.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘17-18’: XVIII: The Long Wait Continues 

Post#1960 » by bigpimpatl » Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:12 am

Knightro wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:As Prime Thyme said, your snarky , "im better than everybody" type of posting is annoying as hell. Also you are picking fights with everybody last few weeks because you feel need to defend every single move that front office did in last year and half .Even defending moves that did not happen.


I don't mean to speak for anyone else, but at the end of the day the extreme pessimism towards EVERYTHING on this board just gets tiresome.

I'm not suggesting everyone should support every single thing the Magic do no matter what, but there are ways to question what they're doing without being insufferable.

Some of us want to be optimistic about things and try and actually enjoy the 30th season of Magic basketball.


but facts are facts; I can't really disagree with anything pepe said.

I've lost count since how many years ago we've been mentioned in any relevant NBA conversation. Being a fan of this team has been really tough.

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