Wait, you said AG would not play SF this year

[Instincts]

Even with clear improvement and expansion in AG’s skill set you said that the experiment two years ago would not be reattempted, even with the obvious void at SF.

Yet interviews from Jeff Weltman, Aaron Gordon, and Dante in the past several weeks have all sourced that AG will be back at the SF during the 2018-2019. I’m sure you will justify instead of just admitting a mistake.

Please head over to the AG stat thread and record your AG pessimism before this train completely leaves the station and you try to jump on the back of the caboose. Seems like only the few AG optimist post stat predictions, while the mob of pessimists either are nowhere to be seen or can’t post a prediction for some roster or role reason. The season is about to start.

Jeff Weltman 96.9 - training camp interview
Drive time with Aaron Gordon - 10/3 - 11 minute mark
Drive time with Steve Clifford - 10/2 - 24 minute mark

[rcklsscognition]

[VFX]

Wait.. are you implying that people didn’t think he would be “slotted as a SF”, or that by that metric you think he will exceed expectations that people thought he would? Nobody questioned whether management or coaching wouldn’t try putting him in the position (again). He’s clearly switching between offense and defense in either forward slot.

People question whether or not he’s able to be effective enough to win Orlando games in the position. He doesn’t distribute or stretch the floor reliably up to this point in his career. Why are you so gung-ho on claiming to be “right” ? Was it his spectacular game against non nba competition without Isaac? FWIW I posted my opinion on the second page to your thread.

[PennytoShaq]

What is he saying? I’m pretty sure JI is going to be listed at SF.

I think AG will play spot minutes at SF in bigger lineups, which is fine.

Anyway, not sure what the OP means.

[bargnanimvp]

Who is 'you' in this thread? Be more specific. This orlando team is more or less trying to be position less at the forward spots with Isaac and AG, they'll switch depending on match ups and i imagine unless Isaac's jump shot develops AG will play more of a small forward role on offence. Like has been mentioned above though i'm not sure that's a good thing with our current line up lacking playmakers because while AG has good vision and makes good passes he isn't really a creator. I can't help but think both of them would look better playing a more traditional four spot with a better perimeter player next to them at the three, still switch for defense and still be more versatile than the old style fours but i just think it'd help on offence tremendously for both of them.

[shadrock]

I knew this season was a waste of time as soon as they rolled out Vucevic as starting center and started talking about playing him and Bamba together. How many more fking years are we going to ruin by playing this outdated, lazy, pice of **** at center? Im over it. We need a starting center in a similar mould to Bamba (defense first) so that we can start to play the same way we will with Bamba starting. Its not that hard to figure out. As soon as we have Vuc at starting C, it has a negative flow on impact on several other positions. Im over it.

Idiots.

[bargnanimvp]

I knew this season was a waste of time as soon as they rolled out Vucevic as starting center and started talking about playing him and Bamba together. How many more fking years are we going to ruin by playing this outdated, lazy, pice of **** at center? Im over it. We need a starting center in a similar mould to Bamba (defense first) so that we can start to play the same way we will with Bamba starting. Its not that hard to figure out. As soon as we have Vuc at starting C, it has a negative flow on impact on several other positions. Im over it.

Idiots.

I don't hate Vuc like some people here do (i don't think he's good but i think he can be solid and i think his issues can be fixed on better teams with better defenders around him and an actual offensive system in place that doesn't allow him to do anything he wants with his touches) but he needs to go from Orlando, it just doesn't work on this team. I'd rather we start Mozgov who is not a good center but at least plays like a traditional big man and would allow the rest of the line up to work around him in a more conventional manner. Bamba probably isn't physically ready to start every night but give him solid minutes as a back up this season alongside Birch and i think it'd be much better than just continuing with Vuc who i think is going to hurt other players development. We need to be prepared to get zero return on him though, we've killed any value he had.

[fendilim]

lol who, where and when said he wont play sf?

[fendilim]

I knew this season was a waste of time as soon as they rolled out Vucevic as starting center and started talking about playing him and Bamba together. How many more fking years are we going to ruin by playing this outdated, lazy, pice of **** at center? Im over it. We need a starting center in a similar mould to Bamba (defense first) so that we can start to play the same way we will with Bamba starting. Its not that hard to figure out. As soon as we have Vuc at starting C, it has a negative flow on impact on several other positions. Im over it.

Idiots.

so who are your top offensive options assuming we run

defensive c
ji
ag
evan
dj?

[Raider_MXD]

<deleted, duplicate>

[Raider_MXD]

I knew this season was a waste of time as soon as they rolled out Vucevic as starting center and started talking about playing him and Bamba together.

Trying that from time to time makes sense to me. On the one hand currently Bamba is physically challenged at the C spot, on the other hand he seems to be able to stretch the floor. How it'll work depends on his mobility.

Even with clear improvement and expansion in AG’s skill set you said that the experiment two years ago would not be reattempted, even with the obvious void at SF.

The roster current roster is rather unbalanced in terms of talent per position, so it's not surprising that this is being contemplated. It's far from ideal, but due to Gordon's improvement I assume it would at least work better than two years ago.

I'd rather we start Mozgov

No, thanks.

[drsd]

Defensively Gordon will guard the SF and Isaac the PF. On offense, neither Gordon or Isaac is a "SF" or a "PF". The offensive plan will have both on the perimeter with Vučević more on the block.

This takes Orlando back to the 4+1 style of offense.


..

[pepe1991]

due complete lack of sense how to build functional team, yes Gordon will play SF once again.

[j-ragg]

He could play pg for all I care. I just don’t want the bad crossover hesi jumpers anymore. Just play smarter basketball and no one on here will really care much either imo.

[Optimus_Steel]

due complete lack of sense how to build functional team, yes Gordon will play SF once again.

You are doomed if you fail to learn from the past.

[pepe1991]

due complete lack of sense how to build functional team, yes Gordon will play SF once again.

You are doomed if you fail to learn from the past.

“Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it” – Winston Churchill

[NBlue]

AG is probably the best perimeter defender on the team. To me it will generally make more sense for JI to guard more at the 4 defensively whereas AG will want to guard the quicker 3s. I think JI is a very good defender also and his length really creates problems but it depends on matchups.

I don't really see why this is such a contentious thing. Most of the top forwards in the league can rotate among 2 or even 3 positions (or more) and I don't think its bad for AG to get a shot. Not sure what happened 2 years ago can be entire placed upon the fact he was playing the 3.

[PennytoShaq]

Isaac is the small forward. Its what he is listed as and what clifford says he will play on offense.

I think ag will be used more as a roller and guy who cleans up under the rim, uses his athleticism to get easy putbacks. Etc.

Isaac will be used to space the floor. So hopefully he will start knocking his 3s down more often.

This is all what clifford basically has stated.

[Rainwater]

He could play pg for all I care. I just don’t want the bad crossover hesi jumpers anymore. Just play smarter basketball and no one on here will really care much either imo.

From what i have seen he is still the same lol

[Skin]

As a hopeful AG at SF proponent through the years, I know where the OP is coming from. There has always been criticism of his play at SF.

For me, I always thought his best chance at becoming a star was making it at the SF position. Because of his athletic body type, lateral quickness and explosiveness, I envisioned him being able to defend the NBA SFs better than NBA PFs, right from the get go. The hope was that over time, if his offensive game grew then that would trigger his ascension to stardom.

Here's the problem... AG was always a dunker and playing close to the basket was a more successful part of his game. He had those skills right out of the box as he came into the league. So naturally, he would always have more success if he was put into position close to the basket. Fans saw where his immediate success was coming from and where quick to say, "Look he's way better as a PF!" ...and that's why the "AG is a PF" argument was always more popular than "AG is a SF".

But becoming a star at PF required much more than being a dunker. You have to defend... and I always saw the task of defending PFs for Gordon being very difficult. He doesn't have the length or thickness to be a post defender or rim protector. I'd rather take the wait-and-see approach for Gordon's offensive game to grow at SF, than take the wait-and-see appproach for his defensive game to grow at PF. Because of the body limitations, I just couldn't see him becoming a star at PF.

Vogel had great intensions of making this happen, but he never had the patience to execute it correctly. AG was never going to turn into Paul George-lite in one night... it was never going to happen in one season... so when it looked like it wasn't working, he pulled the plug and then everyone called the "AG to SF experiment" a big fat failure. After that, 99% of the forum took the stance of not wanting to see that happen again.

At that time, this forum was pretty joyous about his removal from SF. It sucked for me because I felt like I had to concede that maybe AG will never have the chance to become a star. Maybe all those guys who I had those fun debates with were right about him not being able to play SF. Maybe the best I can hope for is for him to be a good small ball PF... which in my mind was a part time role player.

But then, we drafted Isaac... and I thought, maybe there is hope! AG could switch with Isaac... AG at PF on offense and SF on defense and vice versa with Isaac. That brought renewed hope that maybe the Magic can develop a star out of AG afterall! Getting Isaac was a huge happy moment. ...which lasted about a minute. Isaac ended up battling injuries his whole rookie season and we could never see what the 2 of them would look like on the court... much less switching on the court. ...which was a whole concept that still needed to be more than just my imagination... Vogel would actually have to put it in place.

But then another thing happened! AG's shots started to fall like never before! His offensive game was hitting a huge growth curve and his star potential started to reblossom. While his numbers started to regress to the mean by the end of the season, there was still enough shown that he could be more trusted of playing on the perimeter with his improved shooting percentages. Still, not quite there with his handle, but I thought, "Hey, AG as a 3-D SF!" could be his calling! He could be one of the best 3 and D SFs in the game if he could keep his 3P% above 35%. In that role, he would probably never become a superstar (those hopes long gone), but he could still be a star! I've debated AG as a 3-D SF and that talk never got good traction in forum talks.

But yeah, now with baldy as our HC and the talk of AG at SF on defense and PF on offense, switching with Isaac... that talk reminds me of the Jonathan Isaac draft threads where we used to discuss it a lot and that has me excited for this season. I'm ready! I'm ready for AG to make his first All-Star game!