Wait, you said AG would not play SF this year

[Skin]

There is zero corelation between playing a lot in rookie year and development.

Some players play a lot because they are simply that good (Ayton and Dončić this year)
Some don't play at all due injuries and end up being stars ( Embiid, Simmons and Griffin)
Some play a little because they are not good, yet turn into good players later ( McCullum as prime example )
Some don't play a lot because they suck and never get better (Maker... )
Some play a lot and never get better ( MCW, Okafor... )

Acting like there is blueprint that is holy script how to develop superstar is false. In most cases superstars are really,really good from rookie years and that's why they play more. Late bloomers exist but they are exception, not a rule. Most allstars showed flashes and streaches were they played like stars in their rookies and sophomore seasons.

Their minutes are not bothering me that much. It's their involvement and usage of them.

Bigger problem is that our team is not playing as a team. There's still a divide. Isaac gets iced out on wide open looks. Evan literally only has eyes for Vuc. Simmons is a rogue warrior. Vuc and Ross are playing for their next contract. AG is trying too hard because he's not a natural #1 option. When DJ passes the ball, we stay in games. When he doesn't, we get blow out. More often than not, we're getting blown out.

[MagicFan101]

I never said Gordon is not valuable player because of his shooting, i just pointed out that he struggles to shoot through his whole career, unlike players from the list who shootpoorly during 6 to 8 games but are overall good shooters, from whole career perspective. It's objective to expect from them to shoot better later , where for Gordon that simply is not a case.

Wall is not 21% level bad but he was never good shooter ( 32% for 3 for career, pretty medicore shooter overall ) .
Gordon, right now , for career shoots 30,9% for 3, that happends to be identical to his current numbers. We talk about 830 attemps overall, 600 over last two years.



I don't agree to this, i think he is surrounding peace to better player, and for sure i don't see him ever being cornerstone in any succesful rebuild because, in my opinon, in 5 years he never showed any signs of star potential where anybody would consider him a cornerstone of anything but 25 wins team.

But that's just my opinion.

You're lying to yourself again. He's shown flashes that if Mario Hezonja did them, then we'd never hear the end of it from you.

I absolutely never said Hezonja has star potential after his rookie year as far as i can remember.
Being in 5th year what you call flashes, others call good games. Especially now with inflated PPGs , every game some random dude goes for career high between 20 and 35 points. Being starter on bad team allows you to do that. Hell, D Rose who averaged 8 ppg last year just dropped 50, didn't score more than 40 in last 7 years. I think he didn't score 30 or more in last 3 years.

for example ,last year Harris scored 20 or more points 32 times, Gordon 14.
But in your mind one showed flashes of stardom, and other is average role player ( not just yours, but half of this forum ) .

Just jumpining in the middle of this ...

a) I personally do NOT see a star in Harris or Gordon

b) In terms of “flashes” of stardom, yes AG outshines Harris and it is not even close.
- Scoring != Basketball

- Harris is a cut and dry, consistent starter.

- AG is not consistent. His lows are far worse than Harris but his highs are far better.

- Both types of players have their place in this league. For a rebuilding team, taking a chance on an AG type is smarter than a Harris. For a contender, you probably want a Harris.


Your eyes will tell you far more than a box score Pepe ...

[JF5]

OK, I get where you're coming from. You like what our team is doing and nothing needs to change as far as strategy, rotations, and playing time goes. The best thing to do is cry about AG because he is an untradable asset and the biggest problem with this team.

Now that's a great stance!

I don't understand what you're even saying. You're spinning narratives in my post like crazy.

I would like things to change, but obviously I know what the front office is attempting to do so I'm not losing my mind over this team this season.

My thing has always been to not attach yourselves to contracts that aren't really movable for quality players. When I look at AG and how he's played I don't see teams wanting to move quality pieces for his contract (Unless expiring).

Plus, given my projection of his talents this team has many other problems I'm not going to blame him for the lack of success/nor have I ever done that. But if you're an AG believer/fan he should shoulder much of the responsibility since you guys have believed he should've made that jump in player development the last few season. My problems have always stemmed from his fans saying that its been Fournier/Vucevic's fault for the team being in dire straights and hindering his potential. Always with an excuse for him... "He needs a point guard", "He needs better teammates", "he's not in the position to succeed", "He needs a better coach". Yeah, so does he and everyone else on the roster. He's third option on the worst offensive team in the league and if he remains here he'll likely have all the more opportunity to shoot as many shots as he wants compared to the other teams he'd be traded to.

For me, with Issac entering his 3rd year next season and being pretty redundant with Gordon... I don't see how they can co-exist together on the same team especially with their lack of offensive versatility/shooting. At least with Vucevic he is such a versatile offensive player that his skill-set varies from Bamba. Plus, I believe Mo is another season or two away from completely starting.

[Skin]

OK, I get where you're coming from. You like what our team is doing and nothing needs to change as far as strategy, rotations, and playing time goes. The best thing to do is cry about AG because he is an untradable asset and the biggest problem with this team.

Now that's a great stance!

I don't understand what you're even saying. You're spinning narratives in my post like crazy.

I would like things to change, but obviously I know what the front office is attempting to do so I'm not losing my mind over this team this season.

My thing has always been to not attach yourselves to contracts that aren't really movable for quality players. When I look at AG and how he's played I don't see teams wanting to move quality pieces for his contract (Unless expiring).

Plus, given my projection of his talents this team has many other problems I'm not going to blame him for the lack of success/nor have I ever done that. But if you're an AG believer/fan he should shoulder much of the responsibility since you guys have believed he should've made that jump in player development the last few season. My problems have always stemmed from his fans saying that its been Fournier/Vucevic's fault for the team being in dire straights and hindering his potential. Always with an excuse for him... "He needs a point guard", "He needs better teammates", "he's not in the position to succeed", "He needs a better coach". Yeah, so does he and everyone else on the roster. He's third option on the worst offensive team in the league and if he remains here he'll likely have all the more opportunity to shoot as many shots as he wants compared to the other teams he'd be traded to.

For me, with Issac entering his 3rd year next season and being pretty redundant with Gordon... I don't see how they can co-exist together on the same team especially with their lack of offensive versatility/shooting. At least with Vucevic he is such a versatile offensive player that his skill-set varies from Bamba. Plus, I believe Mo is another season or two away from completely starting.

I don't ever recall myself blaming Fournier or Vucevic for AG's growth. Neither play his position. I have complained about Harris standing in his way before. I have complained about the fit of Vuc next to AG. ...most notably that duo being poor defensively.

Look, Evan and Vuc have clearly been the leaders of a terrible era of Magic basketball. Things are not going to get better as long as that is the case. New coach hasn't changed that. I'm sure eventually, he will be forced to. Sooner he does, the better. This season is not about wins for any of us, but it should be about seeing Gordon, Isaac and Bamba taking over the identity of this team away from the Evan and Vuc Show.

I hear what you are saying with the overlap of Gordon and Isaac, but I do believe they can play together. The are almost an ideal pairing. Their strengths and weaknesses compliment each other on both ends of the floor. They just need more usage. Isaac is a hidden gem. He has yet to infuse himself as a major contributor on the floor. He takes the left overs right now. But when he does take initiative to get involved, like he did against Boston, then it's no surprise at the success we have.

I'm always interesting in gauging the value of our players in trades. I even posted a trade of AG to PHX earlier this week on the T/T forum. So as much bias as you think I have, I'm down for anything that improves the team.

[JF5]

Look, Evan and Vuc have clearly been the leaders of a terrible era of Magic basketball. Things are not going to get better as long as that is the case. New coach hasn't changed that. I'm sure eventually, he will be forced to. Sooner he does, the better. This season is not about wins for any of us, but it should be about seeing Gordon, Isaac and Bamba taking over the identity of this team away from the Evan and Vuc Show.

They are leaders by default... If there were better talent these guys would be the 3rd/4th/5th options that they should be. To me it like buying a car with many faults, you and everyone knows the car is **** but you still drive it anyways. Consistently complaining about the vehicle is redundant and won't get you anywhere. The only thing you can do is bind your time and get enough money before you can get a new car. That's how I view this situation.

I hear what you are saying with the overlap of Gordon and Isaac, but I do believe they can play together. The are almost an ideal pairing. Their strengths and weaknesses compliment each other on both ends of the floor. They just need more usage. Isaac is a hidden gem. He has yet to infuse himself as a major contributor on the floor. He takes the left overs right now. But when he does take initiative to get involved, like he did against Boston, then it's no surprise at the success we have.

The only ideal fit for them is on defense thus far. Both these guys aren't natural scorers/shooters/playmakers and don't really project to be elite at any of those categories. Though Issac has the tools to maybe reach that elite scoring range but its debatable...

I'm always interesting in gauging the value of our players in trades. I even posted a trade of AG to PHX earlier this week on the T/T forum. So as much bias as you think I have, I'm down for anything that improves the team.

You're a Gordon guy and you've stated in this topic that he'll eventually become an all-star caliber player in a previous post. There is nothing wrong with that. We just have opposing views on what he'll be... That's it really... If he becomes a star that's great and I want him to do well.

I personally like Vucevic and I think he'd be a good 3rd option borderline all-star in the right situation... But I was really happy when we drafted Bamba because I know the crazy potential him and Issac have together on the front court. We all have biases I just think there has to be rationale to how players/rosters are viewed in general.

[Skin]

Look, Evan and Vuc have clearly been the leaders of a terrible era of Magic basketball. Things are not going to get better as long as that is the case. New coach hasn't changed that. I'm sure eventually, he will be forced to. Sooner he does, the better. This season is not about wins for any of us, but it should be about seeing Gordon, Isaac and Bamba taking over the identity of this team away from the Evan and Vuc Show.

They are leaders by default... If there were better talent these guys would be the 3rd/4th/5th options that they should be. To me it like buying a car with many faults, you and everyone knows the car is **** but you still drive it anyways. Consistently complaining about the vehicle is redundant and won't get you anywhere. The only thing you can do is bind your time and get enough money before you can get a new car. That's how I view this situation.

I hear what you are saying with the overlap of Gordon and Isaac, but I do believe they can play together. The are almost an ideal pairing. Their strengths and weaknesses compliment each other on both ends of the floor. They just need more usage. Isaac is a hidden gem. He has yet to infuse himself as a major contributor on the floor. He takes the left overs right now. But when he does take initiative to get involved, like he did against Boston, then it's no surprise at the success we have.

The only ideal fit for them is on defense thus far. Both these guys aren't natural scorers/shooters/playmakers and don't really project to be elite at any of those categories. Though Issac has the tools to maybe reach that elite scoring range but its debatable...

I'm always interesting in gauging the value of our players in trades. I even posted a trade of AG to PHX earlier this week on the T/T forum. So as much bias as you think I have, I'm down for anything that improves the team.

You're a Gordon guy and you've stated in this topic that he'll eventually become an all-star caliber player in a previous post. There is nothing wrong with that. We just have opposing views on what he'll be... That's it really... If he becomes a star that's great and I want him to do well.

I personally like Vucevic and I think he'd be a good 3rd option borderline all-star in the right situation... But I was really happy when we drafted Bamba because I know the crazy potential him and Issac have together on the front court. We all have biases I just think there has to be rationale to how players/rosters are viewed in general.

Fair enough.

Leaders by default... I agree with. Coach won't change that. Management must.

AG/Isaac will look much better on offense when we have a good PG to create for them instead of them creating for themselves.

I am a Gordon guy and I "hope" he becomes a star. I think he can be a good 3rd option like you think Vuc is a good 3rd option. Only difference is Gordon won't be the defensive liability that Vuc is. That is why he is a better cornerstone to keep around.