ImageImageImageImage

Regular Season Game 2: Charlotte Hornets (0-1) at Orlando Magic (1-0)

Moderators: UCF, Knightro, Howard Mass, UCFJayBird, Def Swami, ChosenSavior, SOUL

User avatar
Def Swami
Forum Mod - Magic
Forum Mod - Magic
Posts: 25,793
And1: 15,114
Joined: Aug 04, 2008
Location: Huevos Bancheros Brunch
Contact:
   

Re: Regular Season Game 2: Charlotte Hornets (0-1) at Orlando Magic (1-0) 

Post#701 » by Def Swami » Sat Oct 20, 2018 2:40 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
rcklsscognition wrote:
Read on Twitter


I love about halfway through this he almost has a seizure trying to name one way we might possibly play good offense.


Because there are zero playmakers on this roster. Feeding Vuc in the post is the only thing they have, and his offense is low % and one dimensional. This is inept roster construction and no planning, equating to an abysmal rotation that couldn’t score if it needed to.

PG - Career backup
SG- Rotation starter
SF- Young, no offensive game to speak of.
Pf- Wildly inconsistent game to game and quarter to quarter.
C- Skill set no longer relevant to current nba

Yeah. That’s what Orlando is fielding. There is no level of coaching that could or will help that lineup. Pretty pathetic product currently. Clifford is either going to age quickly trying to figure out how to solve a flawed roster, or he’s going to somehow win with less costing Orlando draft position. Either way, the FO should do their fu***** jobs and figure it out.


This. People gave Vogel to much ***t ( me included ) because we at times fail to see (overlook, or kind a ignore) main issue with Orlando Magic. And that issue is clear lack of nba talent on roster.

Guy on OPP nailed it last night with simple comment
the problem with our starters
is that at least 3 of them aren’t NBA starters

You know, I don't even mind that that this team lacks the starter talent. But it's the fact that the front office has punted on shooting and playmaking for two off-seasons in a league that is increasingly centered around it. There have been worse teams in the league that have at least attempted to adapt to a more modern game, like the Nets, Hawks, and even Sixers during their Hinkie days.

Hard to believe that more nights like last night aren't on the horizon with the current roster construction. I don't mind losing again this year. But I do wish that there was the mere stencil of an NBA team out there.

I still genuinely enjoy the bench units of Grant/Ross/Simmons/Gordon/Bamba because it's actually the closest to versatile, athletic team with multiple ball handlers.

Also, how did Fournier get named a captain? Holy hell.
User avatar
Def Swami
Forum Mod - Magic
Forum Mod - Magic
Posts: 25,793
And1: 15,114
Joined: Aug 04, 2008
Location: Huevos Bancheros Brunch
Contact:
   

Re: Regular Season Game 2: Charlotte Hornets (0-1) at Orlando Magic (1-0) 

Post#702 » by Def Swami » Sat Oct 20, 2018 2:51 pm

Look at the scores from around the league last night. You see the Kings get to 129, the Cavs to 123, the Hawks at 117. The Knicks and Nets get to 105 and 107, respectively. The Magic can continue to build on defense all they want, but if they can't crack 100, it's pretty useless in today's league.
PennytoShaq
Magic Forum Mock Draft Co-Champ
Posts: 7,381
And1: 5,218
Joined: Jan 24, 2016
 

Re: Regular Season Game 2: Charlotte Hornets (0-1) at Orlando Magic (1-0) 

Post#703 » by PennytoShaq » Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:53 pm

First thing is that Evan Fournier before this season was a shooter. I am not sure what has happened to this guy, but I think everyone can agree that he can shoot.

Additionally DJ Augustine shoots 40% from 3. So it is not like we have no one who can shoot, it’s just that they currently are not making shots.

Now we look at why the FO has not found playmakers- that’s not easy to do. The only way we get a playmaker is packaging Vuc and AG and it’s early in the year so I doubt there are great offers yet after game 2.

The only reason Vuc is tradable now is because he expires, and that usually becomes more valuable around February.

What would get for DJ? I can’t imagine anything, really.

Point is, that the main guys we all want to see go are from the prior regime. The main guys we want to see play are all from the current one. That’s why I don’t think we are in such bad shape moving forward. But I am not sure if the changes we want will happen tomorrow, I wouldn’t hold my breath.
Raider_MXD
Senior
Posts: 679
And1: 75
Joined: Jul 21, 2002
Location: Maxdorf, Germany / College Park, MD, USA
Contact:

Re: Regular Season Game 2: Charlotte Hornets (0-1) at Orlando Magic (1-0) 

Post#704 » by Raider_MXD » Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:07 pm

Bad shooting aside, that was roughly the type of offensive performance I expected before the season started. The main issue in my book: playmaking
basketballRob
RealGM
Posts: 27,251
And1: 10,574
Joined: May 05, 2014
     

Re: Regular Season Game 2: Charlotte Hornets (0-1) at Orlando Magic (1-0) 

Post#705 » by basketballRob » Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:31 pm

Def Swami wrote:Look at the scores from around the league last night. You see the Kings get to 129, the Cavs to 123, the Hawks at 117. The Knicks and Nets get to 105 and 107, respectively. The Magic can continue to build on defense all they want, but if they can't crack 100, it's pretty useless in today's league.
When you start two doormats i wouldn't say we're built around defense.


Sent from my LG-LS997 using RealGM mobile app
User avatar
Furinkazan
General Manager
Posts: 7,805
And1: 3,528
Joined: May 11, 2005
     

Re: Regular Season Game 2: Charlotte Hornets (0-1) at Orlando Magic (1-0) 

Post#706 » by Furinkazan » Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:52 pm

Image
Image
Image
Rainwater
General Manager
Posts: 8,583
And1: 5,408
Joined: Apr 02, 2017

Re: Regular Season Game 2: Charlotte Hornets (0-1) at Orlando Magic (1-0) 

Post#707 » by Rainwater » Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:13 pm

MagicMadness wrote:Disappointed to see Gordon finish with 5 points. He needs to take a Dipo-like leap in scoring this season.


People keep waiting on Gordon to become the next Victor without realizing what happened to Victor was quite rare. Gordon is what he is. He will have his good nights like his first game and he will have his bad nights like last night. I really don't think Gordon is the player that most fans want him to be. I think its going to be a while before people realize this.
Rainwater
General Manager
Posts: 8,583
And1: 5,408
Joined: Apr 02, 2017

Re: Regular Season Game 2: Charlotte Hornets (0-1) at Orlando Magic (1-0) 

Post#708 » by Rainwater » Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:22 pm

Knightro wrote:
Optimus_Steel wrote:Cliff can make all sorts of changes but not much will change. We lack talent overall, lack serious offense. The PG rotation may be the worst in the league. The offense is not on this team.


You’re not wrong.

It’s going to be really easy to pile on Clifford for various issues this team will run into this year because as fans it’s wlways incredibly easy to blame the coach for anything that goes wrong.

But the old saying goes, you can’t make chicken salad out of chicken sh*t.

No lineup or rotation changes are going to fix the fundamental flaw this team has with the lack of playmaking and scoring.

Some nights the defense and rebounding will be good enough to carry the offense.

Some nights (rarely) the offense will play over it’s head and they’ll win on that.

But make no mistake, Clifford’s hands are mostly tied here. He doesn’t have a whole lot to work with.


This is the post of the tread. Clifford will get all the blame. However, i don't know how much you can blame him when the roster lacks any real talent and has had very little changes. You can change the coach 100 times but if there is no real talent there is just not much you can do.
User avatar
Audi
Analyst
Posts: 3,274
And1: 2,742
Joined: May 30, 2014
 

Re: Regular Season Game 2: Charlotte Hornets (0-1) at Orlando Magic (1-0) 

Post#709 » by Audi » Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:04 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
Audi wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
Did any doctor ever told you to gtfo from his office with hurt ankle and tough it up with more sprints?
Actually most athletes use offseason to get in to peak physical shape.

Btw Gordon - broken bone in foot in rookie year - in middle of a game.
isaac- rolled ankle - in middle of a game.


Wtf does minutes played have to do with playing with an ankle injury?

We know you grasp at straws when you are wrong, but try to stay on topic, pepe.


Grasp for staws when wrong?
You bring point how grind could help his conditioning over season after i pointed out that most players are indeed banged up with lot of minor injuries even when they playing.
So i gave ridiculous, joking example how playing through minor ( or less minor ) injuries won't help. Actually in most cases makes things worst.
Lot of players talked about it openly, some of them blame way too long season.
Lebron few years back simply said that it's not MPG that it's hard, but number of games.

Once asked about injuries and schedule Kobe simply said
When asked for solutions, Bryant turns logistical: "You shorten the games, you shorten the risk for injury and things of that nature. It definitely helps."
.

And key factor there is recovery period. Or lack of the one. NBA schedules are brutal, they require sleep in plains, changing time zones , going through personal and basketball life, having practice,games and shootarounds every day. Rookies who enter nba never played more than like 40 games season, on rules that have shorter 3 point line, 40 min game, less players who are freaks .

Most rookies like Bamba are teens who are not grown into their bodies or have enough muscles to shield them from some hits. They get mentally and phisically burned out , that's why rookie wall is still a thing.

Long term nobody will care did Bamba play off bench or started rookie season as long as he stays healthy and plays his 22-24 mpg every night.
Rookie Bryant started 6 of 71 games in rookie year , did it hurt him long or short term in any way?
Scottie Pippen did not start single game in rookie season. Long term did it ment anything for his legacy or talent?


The subject at hand was that Bamba was looking gassed after ~21 mpg and then you chimed in with the idea that the grind of a season would probably mess up his health. The implication here is that because he is gassed after ~21 mpg this early in the season, then surely by the end of the season he will be even more gassed with “messed up health.” I responded to this idea with the fact that Mo, like other athletes, aren’t at their prime condition right now coming out of the offseason (which you then contested). That’s because no amount of conditioning in the offseason can truly prepare you for the reality of the NBA season/“grind”. As the season progresses (barring injury) their bodies adjust and conditioning improves, not the opposite. None of this has anything to do with playing through injury or the increased probability of injury due to increased time on court (an obvious fact - thanks, Kobe).

The point is, just because Mo looks gassed now, doesn’t mean he will look equally or more gassed as the season wears on - in fact - we should be expecting the opposite. He should progressively be able to handle more and more minutes. He is not a gas tank that reads “full” coming into the season that will eventually empty. He’s a gas tank that should grow in its holding capacity as the season goes on. Sure - he will have differing levels of gas to start night to night, like in the case of back-to-backs, but when it’s all said and done he should be able to have “more in the tank” come seasons end, not less as was being implied.
Abra Cadabra, Razzmatazz, Slam-Dunk Sesame, Hocus Pocus, Alacazam, Gonna set the spirit free
Keeping The Original Orlando Magic Theme Song Alive
basketballRob
RealGM
Posts: 27,251
And1: 10,574
Joined: May 05, 2014
     

Re: Regular Season Game 2: Charlotte Hornets (0-1) at Orlando Magic (1-0) 

Post#710 » by basketballRob » Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:53 pm

Audi wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
Audi wrote:
Wtf does minutes played have to do with playing with an ankle injury?

We know you grasp at straws when you are wrong, but try to stay on topic, pepe.


Grasp for staws when wrong?
You bring point how grind could help his conditioning over season after i pointed out that most players are indeed banged up with lot of minor injuries even when they playing.
So i gave ridiculous, joking example how playing through minor ( or less minor ) injuries won't help. Actually in most cases makes things worst.
Lot of players talked about it openly, some of them blame way too long season.
Lebron few years back simply said that it's not MPG that it's hard, but number of games.

Once asked about injuries and schedule Kobe simply said
When asked for solutions, Bryant turns logistical: "You shorten the games, you shorten the risk for injury and things of that nature. It definitely helps."
.

And key factor there is recovery period. Or lack of the one. NBA schedules are brutal, they require sleep in plains, changing time zones , going through personal and basketball life, having practice,games and shootarounds every day. Rookies who enter nba never played more than like 40 games season, on rules that have shorter 3 point line, 40 min game, less players who are freaks .

Most rookies like Bamba are teens who are not grown into their bodies or have enough muscles to shield them from some hits. They get mentally and phisically burned out , that's why rookie wall is still a thing.

Long term nobody will care did Bamba play off bench or started rookie season as long as he stays healthy and plays his 22-24 mpg every night.
Rookie Bryant started 6 of 71 games in rookie year , did it hurt him long or short term in any way?
Scottie Pippen did not start single game in rookie season. Long term did it ment anything for his legacy or talent?


The subject at hand was that Bamba was looking gassed after ~21 mpg and then you chimed in with the idea that the grind of a season would probably mess up his health. The implication here is that because he is gassed after ~21 mpg this early in the season, then surely by the end of the season he will be even more gassed with “messed up health.” I responded to this idea with the fact that Mo, like other athletes, aren’t at their prime condition right now coming out of the offseason (which you then contested). That’s because no amount of conditioning in the offseason can truly prepare you for the reality of the NBA season/“grind”. As the season progresses (barring injury) their bodies adjust and conditioning improves, not the opposite. None of this has anything to do with playing through injury or the increased probability of injury due to increased time on court (an obvious fact - thanks, Kobe).

The point is, just because Mo looks gassed now, doesn’t mean he will look equally or more gassed as the season wears on - in fact - we should be expecting the opposite. He should progressively be able to handle more and more minutes. He is not a gas tank that reads “full” coming into the season that will eventually empty. He’s a gas tank that should grow in its holding capacity as the season goes on. Sure - he will have differing levels of gas to start night to night, like in the case of back-to-backs, but when it’s all said and done he should be able to have “more in the tank” come seasons end, not less as was being implied.


I think looking gassed depends on how intensely you played. Look at Oladipo who plays all out and looks like he might collapse during timeouts. When Isaac and Bamba are more mature they might pick spots during the game to pace themselves.

Return to Orlando Magic