Revisiting The Oladipo/Sabonis - Ibaka Trade
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Re: Revisiting The Oladipo/Sabonis - Ibaka Trade
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Re: Revisiting The Oladipo/Sabonis - Ibaka Trade
Still too soon.
Re: Revisiting The Oladipo/Sabonis - Ibaka Trade
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Re: Revisiting The Oladipo/Sabonis - Ibaka Trade
the way I imagine how this terrible trade had transpired, from the bits and pieces I gathered from the news released by robbins is this:
* hennigan wants to hire borrego.
* martins hires skiles, side-stepping hennigan.
* there is tension between hennigan and skiles, although team is performing for the first time.
* martins tries to reconcile hennigan and skiles at the end of the season, it seemingly works.
* hennigan cheekily does some **** behind skiles back, kinda pushing his luck.
* skiles resigns as a response.
* hennigan is blamed by martins for skiles's resignation, hennigan loses all mandate he has.
* hennigan wants to sign adrian griffin, martins bitch-slaps him and brings in vogel.
* martins gives an ultimatum to hennigan, basically forcing him to behave and cooperate with vogel this time.
* vogel wants his twin tower, smash mouth, the big lineup setup from indiana that caused larry bird to let him go.
* vogel is dumb.
* hennigan gives everything vogel wants, whatever the cost is. he basically starts to troll like the cheeky kid that he is.
* this includes giving away oladipo for a year of ibaka and signing biyombo over vuc.
* every little move in the season is a disaster, hennigan is fired.
* hennigan is hired back by the guys that knew him closely in oklohoma, basically not blamed for the mishaps he had here. kinda confirming it was all martins.
* martins knows that it was him that actually ****ed things up. hires an older guy as president, claims to give away basketball related duties, basically admitting he was doing everything before.
* weltman is also dumb.
* hennigan wants to hire borrego.
* martins hires skiles, side-stepping hennigan.
* there is tension between hennigan and skiles, although team is performing for the first time.
* martins tries to reconcile hennigan and skiles at the end of the season, it seemingly works.
* hennigan cheekily does some **** behind skiles back, kinda pushing his luck.
* skiles resigns as a response.
* hennigan is blamed by martins for skiles's resignation, hennigan loses all mandate he has.
* hennigan wants to sign adrian griffin, martins bitch-slaps him and brings in vogel.
* martins gives an ultimatum to hennigan, basically forcing him to behave and cooperate with vogel this time.
* vogel wants his twin tower, smash mouth, the big lineup setup from indiana that caused larry bird to let him go.
* vogel is dumb.
* hennigan gives everything vogel wants, whatever the cost is. he basically starts to troll like the cheeky kid that he is.
* this includes giving away oladipo for a year of ibaka and signing biyombo over vuc.
* every little move in the season is a disaster, hennigan is fired.
* hennigan is hired back by the guys that knew him closely in oklohoma, basically not blamed for the mishaps he had here. kinda confirming it was all martins.
* martins knows that it was him that actually ****ed things up. hires an older guy as president, claims to give away basketball related duties, basically admitting he was doing everything before.
* weltman is also dumb.
Re: Revisiting The Oladipo/Sabonis - Ibaka Trade
- SD2042
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Re: Revisiting The Oladipo/Sabonis - Ibaka Trade
It's over and done with. I was not happy with the trade when it went down. We literally traded VO for Ross and a future 2020 first and second round picks from the Sixers via OKC.
Anyways, I'm happy for Oladipo from the standpoint that if he wasn't traded away from the Magic, he would not had become the better player he has become in his young career.
It pays to have some veteran presence to help teach players how to embrace and build your game up to solidify their foundation. That's what Russell Westbrook was to Victor Oladipo.
Anyways, I'm happy for Oladipo from the standpoint that if he wasn't traded away from the Magic, he would not had become the better player he has become in his young career.
It pays to have some veteran presence to help teach players how to embrace and build your game up to solidify their foundation. That's what Russell Westbrook was to Victor Oladipo.
Re: Revisiting The Oladipo/Sabonis - Ibaka Trade
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Re: Revisiting The Oladipo/Sabonis - Ibaka Trade
BlueBalls wrote:Then ignore it.
I don’t spend as much time here as others, hadn’t seen it discussed lately, so if this is annihilating a dead equine, then the moderators can remove it.
Id go deep on this but you didnt even spend more thank a few minutes to rehash what was happening for us at the time, its just a few lines in which you say how bad it was.
So ill ignore it too.
Re: Revisiting The Oladipo/Sabonis - Ibaka Trade
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Re: Revisiting The Oladipo/Sabonis - Ibaka Trade
basketballRob wrote:Another good benefit about eating plants is that the artery going to your penis gets unclogged and starts flowing real good.
Re: Revisiting The Oladipo/Sabonis - Ibaka Trade
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Re: Revisiting The Oladipo/Sabonis - Ibaka Trade
I like to pretend this trade never happened. Sometimes it works.
Re: Revisiting The Oladipo/Sabonis - Ibaka Trade
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Re: Revisiting The Oladipo/Sabonis - Ibaka Trade
Great thread idea...anyone want to discuss whether Shaq got a fair offer from Devos?
Re: Revisiting The Oladipo/Sabonis - Ibaka Trade
- drsd
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Re: Revisiting The Oladipo/Sabonis - Ibaka Trade
The relevance for me is to look at the past to not make the same mistake(s) moving forward.
We all agree that the Magic needs a new PG. But trading any of BIG for a top-20 PG is in the realm of such a mistake.
"Win now" has limits. Trading the future to secure an #8 seed is not in this team's interests, and that is what the intention of the Ibaka trade was.
As an aside: I still think keeping Fournier over Oladipo was the right move at that moment; and one was going to go.
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We all agree that the Magic needs a new PG. But trading any of BIG for a top-20 PG is in the realm of such a mistake.
"Win now" has limits. Trading the future to secure an #8 seed is not in this team's interests, and that is what the intention of the Ibaka trade was.
As an aside: I still think keeping Fournier over Oladipo was the right move at that moment; and one was going to go.
..
Re: Revisiting The Oladipo/Sabonis - Ibaka Trade
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Re: Revisiting The Oladipo/Sabonis - Ibaka Trade
SD2042 wrote:It's over and done with. I was not happy with the trade when it went down. We literally traded VO for Ross and a future 2020 first and second round picks from the Sixers via OKC.
Anyways, I'm happy for Oladipo from the standpoint that if he wasn't traded away from the Magic, he would not had become the better player he has become in his young career.
It pays to have some veteran presence to help teach players how to embrace and build your game up to solidify their foundation. That's what Russell Westbrook was to Victor Oladipo.
like anything else in this world... environment can change us all for better or worse. And some people over look this fact a lot. That's why it's sometimes good to take a player out of one environment and bring them into yours if you know it will nurture them or possibly change their trajectory. I too also believe that winning basketball and westbrooks drive rubbed off on him. things Victor might not have received if he stayed with us. a lot of pressure was taken off of his shoulders... enough to let him grow.
Re: Revisiting The Oladipo/Sabonis - Ibaka Trade
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Re: Revisiting The Oladipo/Sabonis - Ibaka Trade
Oladipo out indefinitely with knee injury.
Re: Revisiting The Oladipo/Sabonis - Ibaka Trade
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Re: Revisiting The Oladipo/Sabonis - Ibaka Trade
I think in retrospect, Hennigan’s biggest mistake was blowing the Jacque Vaughn hiring. If we had someone like Uncle Cliff years ago, the team would have been better and RDV and Martins would have let Henny continue the course.
So end of the day, it comes back to Hennigan. LOL
So end of the day, it comes back to Hennigan. LOL
Orlando Magic are BACK!!!
Re: Revisiting The Oladipo/Sabonis - Ibaka Trade
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Re: Revisiting The Oladipo/Sabonis - Ibaka Trade
Can't blame Henny too much for Vaughn. San Antonio assistants were all the rage back then and Pop was raving about him. There was all the talk bought his detailed coaching notebook, playing under Jerry Sloan and Pop. Most people here seemed to be on board with the hire at the time. Now the guy doesn't seem close to sniffing another head coaching job.
Re: Revisiting The Oladipo/Sabonis - Ibaka Trade
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Re: Revisiting The Oladipo/Sabonis - Ibaka Trade
drsd wrote:The relevance for me is to look at the past to not make the same mistake(s) moving forward.
We all agree that the Magic needs a new PG. But trading any of BIG for a top-20 PG is in the realm of such a mistake.
"Win now" has limits. Trading the future to secure an #8 seed is not in this team's interests, and that is what the intention of the Ibaka trade was.
As an aside: I still think keeping Fournier over Oladipo was the right move at that moment; and one was going to go.
..
Agree, but the flip side would be betting too long on a Hezonja, Elf, Okafor, Noel, Fultz, etc because they have "potential"...There's a lot to be said for trading high potential for high performance today that will help your BIG types develop and learn to win. I think it's obvious that Bamba and Isaac, in particular, could absolutely fade away in the wrong system/culture (as opposed to rising to the moment). Wiggins, for example, is something of a disappointment but you have to wonder what he'd be if CLE kept him to be raised by LBJ, be held accountable, and be expected to win and compete like a dog...would he be Pippen today instead of what he is?...Also, trades CAN be win win sometimes-for a change, I'd like to be on the shorter term side of a deal that both sides win. I still can't believe how bad Ibaka sucked for one year of his career, when he was given the biggest opportunity to shine.
Re: Revisiting The Oladipo/Sabonis - Ibaka Trade
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Re: Revisiting The Oladipo/Sabonis - Ibaka Trade
Skybox wrote:Agree, but the flip side would be betting too long on a Hezonja, Elf, Okafor, Noel, Fultz, etc because they have "potential"...There's a lot to be said for trading high potential for high performance today that will help your BIG types develop and learn to win. I think it's obvious that Bamba and Isaac, in particular, could absolutely fade away in the wrong system/culture (as opposed to rising to the moment). Wiggins, for example, is something of a disappointment but you have to wonder what he'd be if CLE kept him to be raised by LBJ, be held accountable, and be expected to win and compete like a dog...would he be Pippen today instead of what he is?...Also, trades CAN be win win sometimes-for a change, I'd like to be on the shorter term side of a deal that both sides win. I still can't believe how bad Ibaka sucked for one year of his career, when he was given the biggest opportunity to shine.
And-1
To add, this is my hesitation with Frank Ntilikina. He has no jump shot. The current Magic roster demands a PG that can hit 35% + three-balls at 5 attempts per game. That is not Ntilikina.
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Re: Revisiting The Oladipo/Sabonis - Ibaka Trade
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Re: Revisiting The Oladipo/Sabonis - Ibaka Trade
drsd wrote:Skybox wrote:Agree, but the flip side would be betting too long on a Hezonja, Elf, Okafor, Noel, Fultz, etc because they have "potential"...There's a lot to be said for trading high potential for high performance today that will help your BIG types develop and learn to win. I think it's obvious that Bamba and Isaac, in particular, could absolutely fade away in the wrong system/culture (as opposed to rising to the moment). Wiggins, for example, is something of a disappointment but you have to wonder what he'd be if CLE kept him to be raised by LBJ, be held accountable, and be expected to win and compete like a dog...would he be Pippen today instead of what he is?...Also, trades CAN be win win sometimes-for a change, I'd like to be on the shorter term side of a deal that both sides win. I still can't believe how bad Ibaka sucked for one year of his career, when he was given the biggest opportunity to shine.
And-1
To add, this is my hesitation with Frank Ntilikina. He has no jump shot. The current Magic roster demands a PG that can hit 35% + three-balls at 5 attempts per game. That is not Ntilikina.
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Agree. I would be interested in Frank, but only as a longshot/low cost deal (like the Knicks trying out Mario, Mudiay, Vonleh,etc)...I DO NOT see Frank as our PG of the future, but could be Pat Beverly/Marcus Smart type, 3rd guard, situational guy. If he does more - Awesome. Fultz, Rozier plays are different...those are taking shots at a possible misunderstood/misused star, also higher $$$.
If we picked up Frank for spare parts, I'd still be on the hunt for our starting PG.
Re: Revisiting The Oladipo/Sabonis - Ibaka Trade
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Re: Revisiting The Oladipo/Sabonis - Ibaka Trade
Let's not revisit
Re: Revisiting The Oladipo/Sabonis - Ibaka Trade
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Re: Revisiting The Oladipo/Sabonis - Ibaka Trade
It was not a bad as it looks now when it was done. Managment needed to pick ine between Oladipo and Fournier and decided to go with Fournier(ouch).
Henny was getting pressure to change things around and he decided to make a wild move with OKC thinking I aka was going to take is to the next level.
So it was Ibaka and Fournier vs Dipo and Sabonis. They went with the former. And a lot of us were in favor knowing that the Dipo/Fournier combo was not longer working. We were high on Ibaka.
It didnt work out.
The oroblem really was that coaching staff didnt use Ibaka in the center position. They kept Vuch jn the middle and use Ibaka at PF with AG at SF. We now know that AG has thrive as PF and Ibaka at center.(now with the raptors).
So.. we cannot fully blame Henny for trying.
Besides(positive outlook) :
We have Ross and OKC first which we still need to see what we do with this two assests. Ross has been a very nice surprise this year and his production has diminish the anguish of that trade a little.
If we can get something out of Ross and that OKC trade then we can again revisit this trade again.
Soo... it is still to early to tell how bad it was.
Henny was getting pressure to change things around and he decided to make a wild move with OKC thinking I aka was going to take is to the next level.
So it was Ibaka and Fournier vs Dipo and Sabonis. They went with the former. And a lot of us were in favor knowing that the Dipo/Fournier combo was not longer working. We were high on Ibaka.
It didnt work out.
The oroblem really was that coaching staff didnt use Ibaka in the center position. They kept Vuch jn the middle and use Ibaka at PF with AG at SF. We now know that AG has thrive as PF and Ibaka at center.(now with the raptors).
So.. we cannot fully blame Henny for trying.
Besides(positive outlook) :
We have Ross and OKC first which we still need to see what we do with this two assests. Ross has been a very nice surprise this year and his production has diminish the anguish of that trade a little.
If we can get something out of Ross and that OKC trade then we can again revisit this trade again.
Soo... it is still to early to tell how bad it was.
Re: Revisiting The Oladipo/Sabonis - Ibaka Trade
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Re: Revisiting The Oladipo/Sabonis - Ibaka Trade
magicmouse wrote:Soo... it is still to early to tell how bad it was.
You know how you can tell a trade was bad? When the guy you gave up became an all-star not long after and the guy you got didn't even stay his entire first season.
Re: Revisiting The Oladipo/Sabonis - Ibaka Trade
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Re: Revisiting The Oladipo/Sabonis - Ibaka Trade
drsd wrote:To add, this is my hesitation with Frank Ntilikina. He has no jump shot. The current Magic roster demands a PG that can hit 35% + three-balls at 5 attempts per game. That is not Ntilikina.
For perspective, there are currently 19 NBA PGs taking 5 or more 3-ball attempts per game. And 13 are hitting at 34% or higher.
This is not a great challenge.
Of course there is also Trae Young hitting less than 1-in-4 of his 6ix 3-ball attempts, but the Hawks is not trying to win.
Edit: some interesting 3-ball launchers: D'Angelo Russell at 35.8% on 7 attempts per game; Mike Conley at 34.7% at 7 attempts per game game; Reggie Jackson at 34.4% at 6 attempts per game; Spencer Dinwiddie 36.2% at 5 attempts per game; Eric Bledsoe 36.2% at 5 attempts per game; (bonus: Landry Shamet 39.1% on 4 attempts per game)
Spencer Dinwiddie might be worth a much closer look! He can only sign a 120% average salary as a max (i.e. about 10M a year to start). The Magic could look to make an exciting package for him.
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Re: Revisiting The Oladipo/Sabonis - Ibaka Trade
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Re: Revisiting The Oladipo/Sabonis - Ibaka Trade
At the time of the trade... you could justify it.
I still feel like the Rashard for Arenas trade was a little worse. It was the end of an era.
I still feel like the Rashard for Arenas trade was a little worse. It was the end of an era.
let paid professionals do their job, don't you try and do it for them...