RealGM

Player X enters contract year --> Individual stats end up career best (or near to it) --> Player X is re-signed --> Player X's stats decline the following season --> Player X becomes hard to trade for equal value --> Rinse and Repeat ... Here we go!!!

You're embarrassing yourself again. Still excited about them sweater vests??

Skin wrote:Player X enters contract year --> Individual stats end up career best (or near to it) --> Player X is re-signed --> Player X's stats decline the following season --> Player X becomes hard to trade for equal value --> Rinse and Repeat ... Here we go!!!

Purgatory to Hell - Hell to Purgatory. The Orlando way.

Skin. Get help.

Vooch gonna prove Skin Wrong!!!

So on that note^^ and in response to MagicMatic—

At some point you have to win games. The logical reading of my post included phrases such as “we have a watchable core of guys” and “we appear to be improving every game”.

I don’t think any logical person would interpret that as “I am content with barely making the playoffs this season”.

Unfortunately, your line of thought involves perpetual tanking until the consensus is that you have a franchise-changing talent in the draft. Well, draft picks also take time to develop. AG has only just begun to break through, Isaac is in year 1.25 and Bamba is a rookie. Winning these games helps cure the toxic environment our team has fostered the last 5 seasons+. Unfortunately, you don’t go from high lotto to championship contender in one season. We have high picks on the roster that are contributing and showing promise—THAT is what I am grateful and excited for as are many others. Your posts would indicate a train of thought that puts us in the deep lotto until LeBron James V.2 falls into our lap. Even LeBron couldn’t get the Cavs to the playoffs right away man.

With respect to Vuc, he is showing out in a contract year, yes. You set a value internally and don’t go crazy overpaying him to retain him. Bad GMs do that. You’re looking at a very possible playoff team with Vuc around and so long as you avoid the emotional decision to overpay and make him untradeable after a possible decline, you’ll be fine. Until then, allow him to help Bamba improve and win some games.

Some of the reactions on this board generally involve being terrified once a player starts to produce and an immediate need to “sell high” the moment they show promise, mixed with incessant complaining that the team is garbage. I don’t get this group.

Stat of the night.

The Magic already have *six* road wins on December 4th.

They only won *eight* times on the road all of last season.

Knightro wrote:Stat of the night.

The Magic already have *six* road wins on December 4th.

They only won *eight* times on the road all of last season.

Holy ****.

j-ragg wrote:

Knightro wrote:Stat of the night.

The Magic already have *six* road wins on December 4th.

They only won *eight* times on the road all of last season.

Holy ****.

Holy s*** indeed. Knew it was bad but wow that bad?

Woegel.

EAS Law wrote:So on that note^^ and in response to MagicMatic—

At some point you have to win games. The logical reading of my post included phrases such as “we have a watchable core of guys” and “we appear to be improving every game”.

I don’t think any logical person would interpret that as “I am content with barely making the playoffs this season”.

Unfortunately, your line of thought involves perpetual tanking until the consensus is that you have a franchise-changing talent in the draft. Well, draft picks also take time to develop. AG has only just begun to break through, Isaac is in year 1.25 and Bamba is a rookie. Winning these games helps cure the toxic environment our team has fostered the last 5 seasons+. Unfortunately, you don’t go from high lotto to championship contender in one season. We have high picks on the roster that are contributing and showing promise—THAT is what I am grateful and excited for as are many others. Your posts would indicate a train of thought that puts us in the deep lotto until LeBron James V.2 falls into our lap. Even LeBron couldn’t get the Cavs to the playoffs right away man.

With respect to Vuc, he is showing out in a contract year, yes. You set a value internally and don’t go crazy overpaying him to retain him. Bad GMs do that. You’re looking at a very possible playoff team with Vuc around and so long as you avoid the emotional decision to overpay and make him untradeable after a possible decline, you’ll be fine. Until then, allow him to help Bamba improve and win some games.

Some of the reactions on this board generally involve being terrified once a player starts to produce and an immediate need to “sell high” the moment they show promise, mixed with incessant complaining that the team is garbage. I don’t get this group.

Understand this, I’m totally fine with winning if it’s happening because of young guys and players that will be here for the foreseeable future. Nobody expects to draft your way out of being devoid of talent, but it’s a good place to look if nobody is picking up the phone for your assets. Like it or not, talent produces wins. AG is playing well some nights better than usual, Isaac is coming off the bench (#6 pick) and Bamba is seeing 12-17 minutes a game (#6 pick) and people wonder why it’s not translating for them.

What I’m not ok with is throwing a bunch of vets including a point guard by committee into a starting lineup and being pleased on a first round exit because fans can’t handle patience. There has never been a cohesive plan in place for this roster. People want to sell high on Vuc because he’s been the same player for 8 seasons, he’s just been playing the best version of himself in a contract year. Cool. If you asked this same board before the season started about resigning Vuc the answers would be comical. You can color me skeptical and still willing to sell high.

Should people be celebrating the 12-12 magic? Maybe. Maybe some people have questions/observations about sustainability and where the growth and production will be coming from a year from now.

EAS Law wrote:So on that note^^ and in response to MagicMatic—

At some point you have to win games. The logical reading of my post included phrases such as “we have a watchable core of guys” and “we appear to be improving every game”.

I don’t think any logical person would interpret that as “I am content with barely making the playoffs this season”.

Unfortunately, your line of thought involves perpetual tanking until the consensus is that you have a franchise-changing talent in the draft. Well, draft picks also take time to develop. AG has only just begun to break through, Isaac is in year 1.25 and Bamba is a rookie. Winning these games helps cure the toxic environment our team has fostered the last 5 seasons+. Unfortunately, you don’t go from high lotto to championship contender in one season. We have high picks on the roster that are contributing and showing promise—THAT is what I am grateful and excited for as are many others. Your posts would indicate a train of thought that puts us in the deep lotto until LeBron James V.2 falls into our lap. Even LeBron couldn’t get the Cavs to the playoffs right away man.

With respect to Vuc, he is showing out in a contract year, yes. You set a value internally and don’t go crazy overpaying him to retain him. Bad GMs do that. You’re looking at a very possible playoff team with Vuc around and so long as you avoid the emotional decision to overpay and make him untradeable after a possible decline, you’ll be fine. Until then, allow him to help Bamba improve and win some games.

Some of the reactions on this board generally involve being terrified once a player starts to produce and an immediate need to “sell high” the moment they show promise, mixed with incessant complaining that the team is garbage. I don’t get this group.

Vuc went from being basically a Power Puff Girl the last few seasons, to playing like a man this season, so I can understand the trepidation there. One thing I know is he is not getting traded this season. Not with how we're playing and with how he is playing and with this teams history in recent years. They probably will even try to re-sign him. Should be interesting.

MagicMatic wrote:

EAS Law wrote:So on that note^^ and in response to MagicMatic—

At some point you have to win games. The logical reading of my post included phrases such as “we have a watchable core of guys” and “we appear to be improving every game”.

I don’t think any logical person would interpret that as “I am content with barely making the playoffs this season”.

Unfortunately, your line of thought involves perpetual tanking until the consensus is that you have a franchise-changing talent in the draft. Well, draft picks also take time to develop. AG has only just begun to break through, Isaac is in year 1.25 and Bamba is a rookie. Winning these games helps cure the toxic environment our team has fostered the last 5 seasons+. Unfortunately, you don’t go from high lotto to championship contender in one season. We have high picks on the roster that are contributing and showing promise—THAT is what I am grateful and excited for as are many others. Your posts would indicate a train of thought that puts us in the deep lotto until LeBron James V.2 falls into our lap. Even LeBron couldn’t get the Cavs to the playoffs right away man.

With respect to Vuc, he is showing out in a contract year, yes. You set a value internally and don’t go crazy overpaying him to retain him. Bad GMs do that. You’re looking at a very possible playoff team with Vuc around and so long as you avoid the emotional decision to overpay and make him untradeable after a possible decline, you’ll be fine. Until then, allow him to help Bamba improve and win some games.

Some of the reactions on this board generally involve being terrified once a player starts to produce and an immediate need to “sell high” the moment they show promise, mixed with incessant complaining that the team is garbage. I don’t get this group.

Understand this, I’m totally fine with winning if it’s happening because of young guys and players that will be here for the foreseeable future. Nobody expects to draft your way out of being devoid of talent, but it’s a good place to look if nobody is picking up the phone for your assets. Like it or not, talent produces wins. AG is playing well some nights better than usual, Isaac is coming off the bench (#6 pick) and Bamba is seeing 12-17 minutes a game (#6 pick) and people wonder why it’s not translating for them.

What I’m not ok with is throwing a bunch of vets including a point guard by committee into a starting lineup and being pleased on a first round exit because fans can’t handle patience. There has never been a cohesive plan in place for this roster. People want to sell high on Vuc because he’s been the same player for 8 seasons, he’s just been playing the best version of himself in a contract year. Cool. If you asked this same board before the season started about resigning Vuc the answers would be comical. You can color me skeptical and still willing to sell high.

Should people be celebrating the 12-12 magic? Maybe. Maybe some people have questions/observations about sustainability and where the growth and production will be coming from a year from now.

And your point is noted—we agree that we haven’t yet had that starplayer fall to us in the draft, but we have to win games at some point whether it’s with a paper champion or what we have on the floor.

I don’t think the idea is to be content with what we currently have and call it a finished product, but patience in this case can be measured two ways. Patience as in allowing the young guys a chance to show what they can do and develop while they learn how to be an NBA pro, or patience meaning you tank year after year hoping you have enough lotto talent to make a team.

I see your point 100%, but I believe our wins our coming from team ball, learning winning culture, playing in the modern NBA (finally) and capitalizing on opportunities. We’ve won in spite of Fournier’s best efforts to shoot us out of games, because of huge defensive plays by Bamba and Isaac, behind huge games from AG, and of course, because Vuc is playing in a system that allows him to thrive. My point is that we aren’t winning just enough to be out of a good lotto spot,which is completely pointless, we are winning like a playoff team again and showing development.

As a result, I believe we will become an attractive destination for FAs again and our players will have better value in trades. You have to start somewhere and plenty of teams have managed to piece together great rosters while consistently being right where we are (Utah,Houston, Denver).

Your point is noted and I’m not saying you're wrong, but I think we are on a trajectory that allows us more flexibility and affords us more options moving forward whereas I think your concerns are more that we are basically seeing the final form right now and need to strike while the iron is hot.

We are back to .500

Hey man, I'm enjoying this season more than I thought I would.

Def Swami wrote:Hey man, I'm enjoying this season more than I thought I would.

Same here. Even the road trip we had I couldnt really complain cuz we were all right in it for the win. Hopefully tom we can prove that DEN loss was just cuz of the altitude (lol)

Also for Vuc to.prove who is the best Nikola CENTER in the league

Disappointing that we’re starting this speculation thread by trashing our best player...

Def Swami wrote:Hey man, I'm enjoying this season more than I thought I would.

This.
I mean at end of a day it's sport where it's not natural to root for Ls.
Esepecially because nobody can guarantee that losing will have positive impact on future.

Were winning and thats a good change from the previous years. Yeah, I know were not good enough to make a PO run but even getting to the PO and getting our young guys into a winning mentality is the good for the franchise. Signing Vuc long term to 4-5 year is not an option. If he wont take a 3 year extension, then trade him and get something unless so he doesnt walk.

I think the most ideal course of action would be to sign Vucevic to a 1 year deal, if he would accept it.

Trading or re-signing Vuc isn't as simple as both sides are making it out to be. It's never just hey, Bamba is replacing Vuc, we're worse now. Everybody gets new roles with Vuc out, and it's seeing if we would be a better team in those roles. It's not as if we're replacing a superstar franchise player that has taken us to the playoffs every year. And it's even less about if Bamba is better than Vuc right now (he obviously isn't), but how the team's ceiling would be without Vucevic at the helm as starting center, what the return we could actually get for Vuc in a trade, what sort of contract he's looking for, and what other trades are available out there for other players on our team to build a more cohesive team.

We've seen players play better in their contract years all the time. Just because Vuc is KILLING it this year, doesn't mean that his play is going to get better next year and the year after. This could be his best season in the league, and if we resign him, say he reverts into the guy he was turning into the previous few years, and say Bamba starts to look more impressive and it's obvious that a change at C will need to happen.. if Vuc is resigned on a 3-4 year deal, it suddenly gets iffy, and we ruin development yet again if we're not able to find any trades.

It's a tricky situation. I'm glad the guys are learning how to win consistently so far, but we have to look at the team as a whole and the picture as a whole before making any moves. A lot of people called the Boston move to trade two literal hall of famers (even on the decline of their careers) to the Nets a terrible move, and that was obviously the correct course of action. Tons of player personnel/coaching/roster moves from all sports that don't make sense or is a downgrade at first turn out to be the correct move, so it'll be interesting to see what happens.

Should also see how we finish this year. It looks pretty good so far, but a lot can still happen.