Poll: Win now or Tank ?
Moderators: ChosenSavior, UCF, Knightro, UCFJayBird, Def Swami, Howard Mass
Poll: Win now or Tank ?
- drsd
- RealGM
- Posts: 39,055
- And1: 8,904
- Joined: Mar 16, 2003
-
Poll: Win now or Tank ?
Dear Magic fans:
Many here clearly think that only a high draft pick will salvage the roster. Others think a winning attitude and cap space solves toe roster through the FA market.
My poll question:
Would you rather:
The Magic go 39-41 and be the 8-seed and be swept
or
The Magic trade Ross and Vučević and flop out the season for lottery magic
Many here clearly think that only a high draft pick will salvage the roster. Others think a winning attitude and cap space solves toe roster through the FA market.
My poll question:
Would you rather:
The Magic go 39-41 and be the 8-seed and be swept
or
The Magic trade Ross and Vučević and flop out the season for lottery magic
Re: Poll: Win now or Tank ?
-
- Veteran
- Posts: 2,690
- And1: 1,354
- Joined: Apr 28, 2018
-
Re: Poll: Win now or Tank ?
I don't think any team in the East can sweep us.
Re: Poll: Win now or Tank ?
- Knightro
- Forum Mod - Magic
- Posts: 28,161
- And1: 29,350
- Joined: Dec 18, 2010
- Location: Jersey
-
Re: Poll: Win now or Tank ?
Clifford's not going to tank unless Vucevic gets seriously injured and misses 20+ games.
The Magic *should* have the ability to at least compete for a playoff spot THIS year (might not make it) and then make a significant addition or two this summer in free agency or via trade (starting PG) to supplement the existing roster.
How would you guys feel if next year's rotation looked something like this...
G: D'Angelo Russell (FA signing), DJ Augustin
G: Evan Fournier, Terrence Ross (resigned)
F: Jonathan Isaac, 1st round pick (Langford? Porter Jr?)
F: Aaron Gordon, Jonathan Isaac
C: Nik Vucevic (resigned), Mo Bamba
The Magic *should* have the ability to at least compete for a playoff spot THIS year (might not make it) and then make a significant addition or two this summer in free agency or via trade (starting PG) to supplement the existing roster.
How would you guys feel if next year's rotation looked something like this...
G: D'Angelo Russell (FA signing), DJ Augustin
G: Evan Fournier, Terrence Ross (resigned)
F: Jonathan Isaac, 1st round pick (Langford? Porter Jr?)
F: Aaron Gordon, Jonathan Isaac
C: Nik Vucevic (resigned), Mo Bamba
Re: Poll: Win now or Tank ?
- NavalAviator94
- Analyst
- Posts: 3,495
- And1: 1,471
- Joined: Jul 24, 2014
- Location: Frisco, TX
-
Re: Poll: Win now or Tank ?
Knightro wrote:Clifford's not going to tank unless Vucevic gets seriously injured and misses 20+ games.
The Magic *should* have the ability to at least compete for a playoff spot THIS year (might not make it) and then make a significant addition or two this summer in free agency or via trade (starting PG) to supplement the existing roster.
How would you guys feel if next year's rotation looked something like this...
G: D'Angelo Russell (FA signing), DJ Augustin
G: Evan Fournier, Terrence Ross (resigned)
F: Jonathan Isaac, 1st round pick (Langford? Porter Jr?)
F: Aaron Gordon, Jonathan Isaac
C: Nik Vucevic (resigned), Mo Bamba
That's pretty much my ideal scenario however with Kemba as our PG. At the end of the day, I just want a starting level PG who can shoot/score at a high level and play adequate defense.
I wouldn't mind seeing Spurs 2.0 though. Vuc goes down, we get the first pick in the draft and then we go on an amazing run over the next 15+ years.
Re: Poll: Win now or Tank ?
-
- Head Coach
- Posts: 6,731
- And1: 4,876
- Joined: Jul 31, 2013
-
Re: Poll: Win now or Tank ?
Too little, too late to regret not committing to the tank. With where the team is currently and the lottery odds changed, that ship has sailed.
We wasted the last years of the worst team getting 25% odds for the 1st pick and worst case landing at 4 era. All those pointless end of season wins that you and the rest of the short-sighted anti-tankers were cheering for did nothing but hurt our team. Our front office's failure to commit to a full measured tank cost us guys like Porzingis and Doncic who could of been the franchise saviors we had been looking for since Dwight left. Instead of controlling our destiny when we should of been tanking PROPERLY, we are now in position to loiter in mediocrity until Hammond trips over his next Giannis through sheer dumb luck.
You got your wish. Hope all those useless late season wins that you can't even remember were worth it.
We wasted the last years of the worst team getting 25% odds for the 1st pick and worst case landing at 4 era. All those pointless end of season wins that you and the rest of the short-sighted anti-tankers were cheering for did nothing but hurt our team. Our front office's failure to commit to a full measured tank cost us guys like Porzingis and Doncic who could of been the franchise saviors we had been looking for since Dwight left. Instead of controlling our destiny when we should of been tanking PROPERLY, we are now in position to loiter in mediocrity until Hammond trips over his next Giannis through sheer dumb luck.
You got your wish. Hope all those useless late season wins that you can't even remember were worth it.
Re: Poll: Win now or Tank ?
- Knightro
- Forum Mod - Magic
- Posts: 28,161
- And1: 29,350
- Joined: Dec 18, 2010
- Location: Jersey
-
Re: Poll: Win now or Tank ?
NavalAviator94 wrote:That's pretty much my ideal scenario however with Kemba as our PG. At the end of the day, I just want a starting level PG who can shoot/score at a high level and play adequate defense.
I wouldn't mind seeing Spurs 2.0 though. Vuc goes down, we get the first pick in the draft and then we go on an amazing run over the next 15+ years.
I don't think there's any realistic scenario currently where the Magic could sign Kemba Walker to the max contract he's looking for and also retain Vucevic since they'd have to renounce Vuc's rights to get the necessary cap space to do so.
If the Magic wanted to retain both guys, they would need to trade Fournier or Mozgov for an expiring deal at this year's deadline to maximize 2019 cap space.
Re: Poll: Win now or Tank ?
- Furinkazan
- General Manager
- Posts: 7,981
- And1: 3,625
- Joined: May 11, 2005
-
Re: Poll: Win now or Tank ?
Despite of recent sucess Id tank and tank hard.This team is far from being a contender and becoming 5-8th team on the East wasnt the goal when we started rebuild but I do get the fact that fans here are desperate and strive for wins even if it means medicority the same medicority we tried to avoid after Dwight trade.Thats why we traded Anderson and get rid of Nelson.We wanted a full rebuild and build a champuonship team.
We are at least few pieces away.We arent ready.We should cash in on Vuc/Ross and go for the full tank.
Thats my 2 cents on this but I do understand the other side.
We are at least few pieces away.We arent ready.We should cash in on Vuc/Ross and go for the full tank.
Thats my 2 cents on this but I do understand the other side.
Re: Poll: Win now or Tank ?
-
- Head Coach
- Posts: 6,731
- And1: 4,876
- Joined: Jul 31, 2013
-
Re: Poll: Win now or Tank ?
Furinkazan wrote:Despite of recent sucess Id tank and tank hard.This team is far from being a contender and becoming 5-8th team on the East wasnt the goal when we started rebuild but I do get the fact that fans here are desperate and strive for wins even if it means medicority the same medicority we tried to avoid after Dwight trade.Thats why we traded Anderson and get rid of Nelson.We wanted a full rebuild and build a champuonship team.
We are at least few pieces away.We arent ready.We should cash in on Vuc/Ross and go for the full tank.
Thats my 2 cents on this but I do understand the other side.
It's too late to count on full on tanks anymore. The latest lottery odds make it even more of a crapshoot. We could have the worst record and most likely end up picking fifth.
Re: Poll: Win now or Tank ?
- rcklsscognition
- RealGM
- Posts: 22,332
- And1: 7,398
- Joined: Mar 23, 2009
- Contact:
-
Re: Poll: Win now or Tank ?
I think we land 5-7th and make the 2nd round if we keep everyone. If not, we still might fight for 8th depending on how we get through January.
Re: Poll: Win now or Tank ?
- OrlandO
- RealGM
- Posts: 21,634
- And1: 16,421
- Joined: May 27, 2009
Re: Poll: Win now or Tank ?
Knightro wrote:Clifford's not going to tank unless Vucevic gets seriously injured and misses 20+ games.
The Magic *should* have the ability to at least compete for a playoff spot THIS year (might not make it) and then make a significant addition or two this summer in free agency or via trade (starting PG) to supplement the existing roster.
How would you guys feel if next year's rotation looked something like this...
G: D'Angelo Russell (FA signing), DJ Augustin
G: Evan Fournier, Terrence Ross (resigned)
F: Jonathan Isaac, 1st round pick (Langford? Porter Jr?)
F: Aaron Gordon, Jonathan Isaac
C: Nik Vucevic (resigned), Mo Bamba
Can they even pay Russell with vuc and ross' 35 million in cap holds?
Re: Poll: Win now or Tank ?
- Knightro
- Forum Mod - Magic
- Posts: 28,161
- And1: 29,350
- Joined: Dec 18, 2010
- Location: Jersey
-
Re: Poll: Win now or Tank ?
OrlandO wrote:Can they even pay Russell with vuc and ross' 35 million in cap holds?
It would take some maneuvering, but long story short they would have to renounce Ross and then bring him back afterwards.
It's possible they wouldn't have to renounce Ross at all if they were able to flip Mozgov or Fournier for an expiring deal at the deadline this year.
Re: Poll: Win now or Tank ?
-
- Community Mod
- Posts: 13,844
- And1: 1,098
- Joined: Aug 21, 2003
- Location: Central NY
-
Re: Poll: Win now or Tank ?
We’ve been in enough lotteries to know the odds are against us. This fan base needs wins. The playoffs, even as an 8th seed, will bring hope.
Re: Poll: Win now or Tank ?
- Furinkazan
- General Manager
- Posts: 7,981
- And1: 3,625
- Joined: May 11, 2005
-
Re: Poll: Win now or Tank ?
People easly forget what happens when you rush and I smell a wild rush here amongst the fans
but as I said I understand.
but as I said I understand.
Re: Poll: Win now or Tank ?
- Knightro
- Forum Mod - Magic
- Posts: 28,161
- And1: 29,350
- Joined: Dec 18, 2010
- Location: Jersey
-
Re: Poll: Win now or Tank ?
A lot will depend on how much Russell/Ross/Vucevic all want in free agency. If they all want 20M per year, then the Magic obviously couldn't sign all three...
The Magic have $75M in committed salary heading into next summer on 7 players. The salary cap is set to be 109M.
So that's roughly 34M in cap space. Throw in the cap hold of their first round pick (for argument's sake we'll call it 3M) and that drops them to about 31M in cap space.
Throw in cap holds for 4 empty roster spots at roughly 850K apiece and that's another 3.4M in cap space gone, bringing Orlando down to 27.6M
But the Magic will likely stretch Mozgov's 16.72M salary over three years to open up another 11.15M in cap space, bringing them back up to about 38.75M in cap space.
Vucevic's cap hold is 19.125M and Ross' is 15.75M, leaving them with just 3.875M in cap space without renouncing either one of them. Not really enough to do anything.
But... if the Magic can resign Ross and Vucevic at numbers lower than their cap holds, that is one way to maneuver around it. Ross at 10M year 1 and Vucevic at 15M year 1 would give them right at 14M to spend in year 1 for a guy like Russell. Is that enough to land him?
Another option is packaging a draft pick (OKC pick) to dump Mozgov (or Fournier) outright for an expiring deal right now.
If they find a taker for Mozgov outright, that would give them another 5.3M in cap space for 2019, which could mean another 1.75M AAV for Vucevic, Ross and Russell if they wanted to split it evenly among the 3, or another 2.65M if they wanted to split it among two of the three.
They could trade away Melvin Frazier and his 1.4M guarantee for next year pretty easily on draft day before free agency.
They could trade away this year's first round pick and save 3M
They could renounce Ross and sign Russell first and bring back Ross afterwards.
There are a lot of ways to skin this cat.
The Magic have $75M in committed salary heading into next summer on 7 players. The salary cap is set to be 109M.
So that's roughly 34M in cap space. Throw in the cap hold of their first round pick (for argument's sake we'll call it 3M) and that drops them to about 31M in cap space.
Throw in cap holds for 4 empty roster spots at roughly 850K apiece and that's another 3.4M in cap space gone, bringing Orlando down to 27.6M
But the Magic will likely stretch Mozgov's 16.72M salary over three years to open up another 11.15M in cap space, bringing them back up to about 38.75M in cap space.
Vucevic's cap hold is 19.125M and Ross' is 15.75M, leaving them with just 3.875M in cap space without renouncing either one of them. Not really enough to do anything.
But... if the Magic can resign Ross and Vucevic at numbers lower than their cap holds, that is one way to maneuver around it. Ross at 10M year 1 and Vucevic at 15M year 1 would give them right at 14M to spend in year 1 for a guy like Russell. Is that enough to land him?
Another option is packaging a draft pick (OKC pick) to dump Mozgov (or Fournier) outright for an expiring deal right now.
If they find a taker for Mozgov outright, that would give them another 5.3M in cap space for 2019, which could mean another 1.75M AAV for Vucevic, Ross and Russell if they wanted to split it evenly among the 3, or another 2.65M if they wanted to split it among two of the three.
They could trade away Melvin Frazier and his 1.4M guarantee for next year pretty easily on draft day before free agency.
They could trade away this year's first round pick and save 3M
They could renounce Ross and sign Russell first and bring back Ross afterwards.
There are a lot of ways to skin this cat.
Re: Poll: Win now or Tank ?
- NavalAviator94
- Analyst
- Posts: 3,495
- And1: 1,471
- Joined: Jul 24, 2014
- Location: Frisco, TX
-
Re: Poll: Win now or Tank ?
Knightro wrote:NavalAviator94 wrote:That's pretty much my ideal scenario however with Kemba as our PG. At the end of the day, I just want a starting level PG who can shoot/score at a high level and play adequate defense.
I wouldn't mind seeing Spurs 2.0 though. Vuc goes down, we get the first pick in the draft and then we go on an amazing run over the next 15+ years.
I don't think there's any realistic scenario currently where the Magic could sign Kemba Walker to the max contract he's looking for and also retain Vucevic since they'd have to renounce Vuc's rights to get the necessary cap space to do so.
If the Magic wanted to retain both guys, they would need to trade Fournier or Mozgov for an expiring deal at this year's deadline to maximize 2019 cap space.
For sure. Kemba is my wish but it will certainly take some creative work to make it happen. I'm sitting on the edge of my seat on what this team is going to do as there are several paths they could take. I'm also struggling to see how Charlotte hangs onto Kemba. I think he's traded by the deadline if they want any real value for him. Otherwise he's likely gone or they are able to do a S&T for very limited value.
Re: Poll: Win now or Tank ?
-
- General Manager
- Posts: 8,035
- And1: 4,336
- Joined: Jul 18, 2009
-
Re: Poll: Win now or Tank ?
- Viper1500
- Head Coach
- Posts: 6,923
- And1: 2,801
- Joined: Apr 15, 2009
- Location: Orlando, FL
-
Re: Poll: Win now or Tank ?
the east is weak, i think we're only a play away from being a top 5 team (trade for beal!!!!)
Re: Poll: Win now or Tank ?
-
- Sophomore
- Posts: 141
- And1: 75
- Joined: Jul 08, 2013
- Location: Ukraine
-
Re: Poll: Win now or Tank ?
3. Trade to improve roster use OKC 2020 or/and lottery protected FRP to not get swept.
Re: Poll: Win now or Tank ?
- OrlandO
- RealGM
- Posts: 21,634
- And1: 16,421
- Joined: May 27, 2009
Re: Poll: Win now or Tank ?
Knightro wrote:OrlandO wrote:Can they even pay Russell with vuc and ross' 35 million in cap holds?
It would take some maneuvering, but long story short they would have to renounce Ross and then bring him back afterwards.
It's possible they wouldn't have to renounce Ross at all if they were able to flip Mozgov or Fournier for an expiring deal at the deadline this year.
How would renouncing Ross and still signing him work? Didn't think something like that was possible if you're gunning for a different free agent. Seems like a huge loophole that would defeat the purpose of a cap hold...
Re: Poll: Win now or Tank ?
- VFX
- RealGM
- Posts: 18,315
- And1: 16,190
- Joined: May 30, 2016
Re: Poll: Win now or Tank ?
Tanking is no longer an option. There should be an option 3 - Make trades with available assets to balance out the roster for the foreseeable future. Nobody wants to hear it, but this roster isn’t good enough, there is little chance Orlando lands a significant enough player outside of trading, and the opportunities for Isaac and Bamba aren’t going to present themselves until changes are made. It’s good to see wins, but in the back of everyone’s mind they know this isn’t a complete roster.