RealGM

Let's continue the conversation and speculation...

EDIT- He never arrived and became a Knick for now.

I first saw on rotoworld.com that the Suns and Magic are the 2 teams interested in DSJ

Than I woke up this morning to recheck rotoworld.com and it said the SUNS are no longer interested. So I guess we are going to get him.

We should have the leverage over the Mavericks without giving up Bamba, Isaac or Gordon. The Mavericks made it be known that Luka is their PG and him and DSJ don't fit together and DSJ mentioned he's not a good fit with the Mavericks. Magic should see if they pull off the deal but if the Mavericks bring up Bamba, isaac or gordon than hang up.

The rise of...DIG, BAD, DAB, AIDSjr?

I would love to get DSJ here. I don’t purport to be an expert scout, but he seems to fit a need, is young, can grow with our squad, and has time to be groomed.

With that said, I think trading AG, JI, or Bamba would be a huge mistake.

JI and Bamba haven’t even shown what they’re capable of doing yet and AG improves every season.

I think that any trade involving our 1st (which I think we could afford to give this year), TRoss (hate to see him go) or Fournier is reasonable given the circumstances.

I realize that you have to give to receive, but we should stand pat if getting an unproven guy like DSJ means parting with our potential core. In the worst case, objectively better options will be available in the Summer if we don’t land this trade.

EAS Law wrote:I would love to get DSJ here. I don’t purport to be an expert scout, but he seems to fit a need, is young, can grow with our squad, and has time to be groomed.

With that said, I think trading AG, JI, or Bamba would be a huge mistake.

JI and Bamba haven’t even shown what they’re capable of doing yet and AG improves every season.

I think that any trade involving our 1st (which I think we could afford to give this year), TRoss (hate to see him go) or Fournier is reasonable given the circumstances.

I realize that you have to give to receive, but we should stand pat if getting an unproven guy like DSJ means parting with our potential core. In the worst case, objectively better options will be available in the Summer if we don’t land this trade.

I would be okay with parting with JI just because we already have AG.

Trading AG makes zero sense as JI hasn't shown enough to be comfortable with him being our future starting PF.

EAS Law wrote:I would love to get DSJ here. I don’t purport to be an expert scout, but he seems to fit a need, is young, can grow with our squad, and has time to be groomed.

With that said, I think trading AG, JI, or Bamba would be a huge mistake.

JI and Bamba haven’t even shown what they’re capable of doing yet and AG improves every season.

I think that any trade involving our 1st (which I think we could afford to give this year), TRoss (hate to see him go) or Fournier is reasonable given the circumstances.

I realize that you have to give to receive, but we should stand pat if getting an unproven guy like DSJ means parting with our potential core. In the worst case, objectively better options will be available in the Summer if we don’t land this trade.

if DSJ is unproven, JI and Bamba are unproven x 3. Dallas isnt going to give up a lottery pick PG for nothing, or take on long salary without some other asset.

Remember folks Elf Payton who was drafted 10th, had an offer for a late 1st round pick in 2017 NBA draft we chose not to take it. He goes to Pheonix at the 2018 trade deadline for a 2nd round pick. Emmanuel Mudiay was the 7th pick in the draft and was traded for McDermott and a 2nd round pick. DSJr was the 9th pick in the 2017 NBA draft. His value may be a late first round pick now, recent history shows the longer they wait...his value will diminish.

tiderulz wrote:

EAS Law wrote:I would love to get DSJ here. I don’t purport to be an expert scout, but he seems to fit a need, is young, can grow with our squad, and has time to be groomed.

With that said, I think trading AG, JI, or Bamba would be a huge mistake.

JI and Bamba haven’t even shown what they’re capable of doing yet and AG improves every season.

I think that any trade involving our 1st (which I think we could afford to give this year), TRoss (hate to see him go) or Fournier is reasonable given the circumstances.

I realize that you have to give to receive, but we should stand pat if getting an unproven guy like DSJ means parting with our potential core. In the worst case, objectively better options will be available in the Summer if we don’t land this trade.

if DSJ is unproven, JI and Bamba are unproven x 3. Dallas isnt going to give up a lottery pick PG for nothing, or take on long salary without some other asset.

I would do this:

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y7yumdyn

JI, Ross, Martins (to make money match) and a 2R pick

for

DSJ and Matthew

That should be more than enough for a PG that is not fitting in

tiderulz wrote:

EAS Law wrote:I would love to get DSJ here. I don’t purport to be an expert scout, but he seems to fit a need, is young, can grow with our squad, and has time to be groomed.

With that said, I think trading AG, JI, or Bamba would be a huge mistake.

JI and Bamba haven’t even shown what they’re capable of doing yet and AG improves every season.

I think that any trade involving our 1st (which I think we could afford to give this year), TRoss (hate to see him go) or Fournier is reasonable given the circumstances.

I realize that you have to give to receive, but we should stand pat if getting an unproven guy like DSJ means parting with our potential core. In the worst case, objectively better options will be available in the Summer if we don’t land this trade.

if DSJ is unproven, JI and Bamba are unproven x 3. Dallas isnt going to give up a lottery pick PG for nothing, or take on long salary without some other asset.

No question, but Bamba isn’t even half a season in, and Isaac has shown he’s a very dependable defensive presence so far.

I’m not disagreeing with you, and I’d probably agree with theLead that of all possible outgoing players, I’d probably be most ok with JI if we HAVE to include one of our prospects, but something tells me that Dallas just doesn’t have the leverage to get much more than that otherwise they’re just wasting DSJ’s career and keeping him as an asset which isn’t good from a player perception standpoint

EAS Law wrote:

tiderulz wrote:

EAS Law wrote:I would love to get DSJ here. I don’t purport to be an expert scout, but he seems to fit a need, is young, can grow with our squad, and has time to be groomed.

With that said, I think trading AG, JI, or Bamba would be a huge mistake.

JI and Bamba haven’t even shown what they’re capable of doing yet and AG improves every season.

I think that any trade involving our 1st (which I think we could afford to give this year), TRoss (hate to see him go) or Fournier is reasonable given the circumstances.

I realize that you have to give to receive, but we should stand pat if getting an unproven guy like DSJ means parting with our potential core. In the worst case, objectively better options will be available in the Summer if we don’t land this trade.

if DSJ is unproven, JI and Bamba are unproven x 3. Dallas isnt going to give up a lottery pick PG for nothing, or take on long salary without some other asset.

No question, but Bamba isn’t even half a season in, and Isaac has shown he’s a very dependable defensive presence so far.

I’m not disagreeing with you, and I’d probably agree with theLead that of all possible outgoing players, I’d probably be most ok with JI if we HAVE to include one of our prospects, but something tells me that Dallas just doesn’t have the leverage to get much more than that otherwise they’re just wasting DSJ’s career and keeping him as an asset which isn’t good from a player perception standpoint

Dallas doesnt need much more. A trade of JI for DSJ fits a need of young talent at a position of need for both teams.

tiderulz wrote:

EAS Law wrote:I would love to get DSJ here. I don’t purport to be an expert scout, but he seems to fit a need, is young, can grow with our squad, and has time to be groomed.

With that said, I think trading AG, JI, or Bamba would be a huge mistake.

JI and Bamba haven’t even shown what they’re capable of doing yet and AG improves every season.

I think that any trade involving our 1st (which I think we could afford to give this year), TRoss (hate to see him go) or Fournier is reasonable given the circumstances.

I realize that you have to give to receive, but we should stand pat if getting an unproven guy like DSJ means parting with our potential core. In the worst case, objectively better options will be available in the Summer if we don’t land this trade.

if DSJ is unproven, JI and Bamba are unproven x 3. Dallas isnt going to give up a lottery pick PG for nothing, or take on long salary without some other asset.

It's the Big for small trade thing. Big projects with potential will always have higher trade value because it takes longer for them to mature in this league. DSJr was the fifth PG taken in his draft class and is already 21. Mavs organization has shown willingness to trade him. I would hold off and only offer a package of Fournier, Simmons and OKC pick. If they can find a better offer then good for them.

darthmerrick wrote:

tiderulz wrote:

EAS Law wrote:I would love to get DSJ here. I don’t purport to be an expert scout, but he seems to fit a need, is young, can grow with our squad, and has time to be groomed.

With that said, I think trading AG, JI, or Bamba would be a huge mistake.

JI and Bamba haven’t even shown what they’re capable of doing yet and AG improves every season.

I think that any trade involving our 1st (which I think we could afford to give this year), TRoss (hate to see him go) or Fournier is reasonable given the circumstances.

I realize that you have to give to receive, but we should stand pat if getting an unproven guy like DSJ means parting with our potential core. In the worst case, objectively better options will be available in the Summer if we don’t land this trade.

if DSJ is unproven, JI and Bamba are unproven x 3. Dallas isnt going to give up a lottery pick PG for nothing, or take on long salary without some other asset.

It's the Big for small trade thing. Big projects with potential will always have higher trade value because it takes longer for them to mature in this league. DSJr was the fifth PG taken in his draft class and is already 21. Mavs organization has shown willingness to trade him. I would hold off and only offer a package of Fournier, Simmons and OKC pick. If they can find a better offer then good for them.

and how many times has that been proven wrong? the game has moved away from "bigs". just look this past year?
2018 - Ayton, Bagley, Doncic <> who is having the better season and impact?

tiderulz wrote:

darthmerrick wrote:

tiderulz wrote:if DSJ is unproven, JI and Bamba are unproven x 3. Dallas isnt going to give up a lottery pick PG for nothing, or take on long salary without some other asset.

It's the Big for small trade thing. Big projects with potential will always have higher trade value because it takes longer for them to mature in this league. DSJr was the fifth PG taken in his draft class and is already 21. Mavs organization has shown willingness to trade him. I would hold off and only offer a package of Fournier, Simmons and OKC pick. If they can find a better offer then good for them.

and how many times has that been proven wrong? the game has moved away from "bigs". just look this past year?
2018 - Ayton, Bagley, Doncic <> who is having the better season and impact?

How many Bigs were taken 1-6 in the draft this year? How many PG's taken in the lottery the last 3 years are allstars? The NBA is playing faster and shooting more threes, yet Bigmen continue to be taken with the 1st pick.

Dallas will circle back when they get offers of 2nd round pick and kennard value.

darthmerrick wrote:

tiderulz wrote:

darthmerrick wrote:
It's the Big for small trade thing. Big projects with potential will always have higher trade value because it takes longer for them to mature in this league. DSJr was the fifth PG taken in his draft class and is already 21. Mavs organization has shown willingness to trade him. I would hold off and only offer a package of Fournier, Simmons and OKC pick. If they can find a better offer then good for them.

and how many times has that been proven wrong? the game has moved away from "bigs". just look this past year?
2018 - Ayton, Bagley, Doncic <> who is having the better season and impact?

How many Bigs were taken 1-6 in the draft this year? How many PG's taken in the lottery the last 3 years are allstars? The NBA is playing faster and shooting more threes, yet Bigmen continue to be taken with the 1st pick.

Bowie over Jordan, Oden over Durant. yes, plenty of times bigmen taken higher. and later the pick regretted.

darthmerrick wrote:

tiderulz wrote:

darthmerrick wrote:
It's the Big for small trade thing. Big projects with potential will always have higher trade value because it takes longer for them to mature in this league. DSJr was the fifth PG taken in his draft class and is already 21. Mavs organization has shown willingness to trade him. I would hold off and only offer a package of Fournier, Simmons and OKC pick. If they can find a better offer then good for them.

and how many times has that been proven wrong? the game has moved away from "bigs". just look this past year?
2018 - Ayton, Bagley, Doncic <> who is having the better season and impact?

How many Bigs were taken 1-6 in the draft this year? How many PG's taken in the lottery the last 3 years are allstars? The NBA is playing faster and shooting more threes, yet Bigmen continue to be taken with the 1st pick.

Yeah teams like the Magic, Suns, Bulls, and Kings keep going big in the top of the lottery

tiderulz wrote:

darthmerrick wrote:

tiderulz wrote:and how many times has that been proven wrong? the game has moved away from "bigs". just look this past year?
2018 - Ayton, Bagley, Doncic <> who is having the better season and impact?

How many Bigs were taken 1-6 in the draft this year? How many PG's taken in the lottery the last 3 years are allstars? The NBA is playing faster and shooting more threes, yet Bigmen continue to be taken with the 1st pick.

Bowie over Jordan, Oden over Durant. yes, plenty of times bigmen taken higher. and later the pick regretted.

That is just two examples. Hardly "plenty" as you put it.

You also leave out key points in both cases.

1) Big man Hakeem Olajuwon was chosen above Bowie and MJ. No one claims Hakeem was better than MJ but do the Rockets regret that pick?

2) It is hard to imagine any scenario where Greg Oden would have been better than the Durant we know today but pre-injury Greg Oden was an absolute monster in college. The talent was there for both. You had the red flags of Oden injuries versus the red flags of a twig Durant not breaking in half. Each worked out in polar extremes. Hindsight really isn't fair here (is it ever?).


Talent is talent is talent. This isn't football where a QB is more valuable than anything else.

darthmerrick wrote:Remember folks Elf Payton who was drafted 10th, had an offer for a late 1st round pick in 2017 NBA draft we chose not to take it. He goes to Pheonix at the 2018 trade deadline for a 2nd round pick. Emmanuel Mudiay was the 7th pick in the draft and was traded for McDermott and a 2nd round pick. DSJr was the 9th pick in the 2017 NBA draft. His value may be a late first round pick now, recent history shows the longer they wait...his value will diminish.

We didnt take it? Who offered it?

2009 draft : Griffin and Thabeet went 1# and 2#, current MVP Harden was 3rd, Steph 7#
2010- Favors 2# , Monroe 7# over George and Hayward ( 9 and 10 pick)
2011 - Vesely, Kanter, Tristan Thompson, Biyombo over Kemba and Klay Thompson
2012 Thomas Robinson over Lilard
2013 Bennett over everybody, Len, Noel and Zeller over McCullum, Giannis, Schroder
2015- Jah Okafor
2016 - Jakob Pöltl, Bender, Chriss, Papagiannis, Maker all selected in lottery

As for Oden- Durant thing.
Oden averaged 15,8 ppg ,9,5 rpg at college. Nice, but compared to 26 ppg,11 rpg ,50% FG, 40% for 3 and 82% FTs , in hindsight is really silly that Durant didn't go 1#.

Durant was comming off one of greatest individual college seasons in history and yet big got drafted before " because you can't teach size". Oh guess what you also can't teach? How to make 6'9 player score from any range, shoot and win games.

Ok I'm at the point now where I watched so much DSJ highlights that I'll be disappointed that we didn't land him.