Aaron Gordon Improving

[BadHombre]

He's been quietly becoming a secondary playmaker over the past couple of months.

Dec:
13.9ppg (39% fg / 41% 3fg / 68% ft)
2.9ftas
8.2rpg
4.3apg
1.8topg

Jan
17.6ppg 46% fg / 30% 3fg / 81% ft)
4.8fta
7.3rpg
3.8apg
2 topg

He's been making great plays on and off the ball over the past couple of months. His efficiency has been up and down, but it's most impressive how many more opportunities he's creating for his teammates. And this month, he's getting his FTAs up, which is something this team has been desperate for. His game is slowly maturing, and it's great to see him developing this all around capability.

It's crazy to think that when he started everyone thought he was just a garbage man PF with amazing hops, to now being a player who can initiate and occasionally create plays. I thought it was impressive and worth noting.

[MagicStarwipe]

His floor game is getting better and better as the season goes on. He's becoming a winning basketball player. I'm pretty happy with how he's developing.

[p0peye]

Cliff has Vučević, Aaron, DJ and Ross all playing to their strengths and we might be seeing the best versions of them all so far.

[RickB-Orlando]

So statistically, he's about where Tobias Harris was when we traded him.

Don't get me wrong, I think AG is a significantly better defender, but as his stats improve, the team seems to do worse. As last year, his 3PFG percentage has been on a downward trend.

So is he a reliable starter as we move forward? I'm still not convinced, and I'm willing to admit it. I'm also willing to be proven wrong in the future.

[SOUL]

So statistically, he's about where Tobias Harris was when we traded him.

Don't get me wrong, I think AG is a significantly better defender, but as his stats improve, the team seems to do worse. As last year, his 3PFG percentage has been on a downward trend.

So is he a reliable starter as we move forward? I'm still not convinced, and I'm willing to admit it. I'm also willing to be proven wrong in the future.

He's our 2nd best starter. And we haven't been a good team for 6 years, not sure how we're "doing worse" with him playing better?

Not really sure what you're trying to imply here. I can see arguments for trades with a better fitting younger player that COULD make sense potentially, but genuinely curious what you mean with the stats being better/team worse thing and you not sure about him being a reliable starter?

[BadHombre]

So statistically, he's about where Tobias Harris was when we traded him.

Don't get me wrong, I think AG is a significantly better defender, but as his stats improve, the team seems to do worse. As last year, his 3PFG percentage has been on a downward trend.

So is he a reliable starter as we move forward? I'm still not convinced, and I'm willing to admit it. I'm also willing to be proven wrong in the future.

This is a confusing take. If a Tobias comparison is intended as a criticism, it shouldn't be.

But also, your implication that his improved numbers are a detriment to the team don't match the results. I just shared a separate thread about that, here:

I was looking through splits for W/L's amongst players on our team. Overall, most players are posting very similar numbers, albeit with improved efficiency on their shots. 3 players stood out with more dramatic differences in their numbers between W's and L's.

AG W's: 18.8ppg (52% / 46% / 80%)
AG L's: 13.6ppg (40% / 29% / 67%)

VUC W's: 22.5ppg (55% / 39% / 76%), 3.7ftas
VUC L's: 18.3ppg (49% / 38% / 77%), 2.1ftas

FOURNIER W's: 13.6ppg (42% / 27% / 76%)
FOURNIER L's: 16.0ppg (44% / 39% / 80%)

This team lives and dies by Vuc and AG. I don't think it's a matter of AG needing to sustain that ridiculous level of efficiency (but it's impressive he's done that over 18 games already. For almost half of this season, he's been in elite efficiency territory), just seeing him find a more consistent middle point between his highs and lows should help to stabilise the team.

[CZ Eddie]

I was just thinking he's getting too old to be a part of our young player movement.
Kinda forgot he joined the league so young.
He's only 23 freakin years old!
Still four years from hitting his "prime".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Gordon

[Audi]

We should’ve traded him after his first 67 games when we had the chance.

[swarlesbarkley]

We should’ve traded him after his first 67 games when we had the chance.

Funny. The big difference is that AG showed flashes in his first season (or 67 games).

I remember this one from his 6th game when he came off the bench and got us a win in OT: http://www.nba.com/games/20141107/MINORL/gameinfo.html

[VFX]

Problem with all of this is what happens to Isaac? Sure, AG has raised his numbers this month, but Isaac has looked brutally bad playing out of position next to him.

Not to mention that although his numbers have been better, having him as a secondary option to Vuc hasn’t produced winning basketball.

By the way, nobody thought he was a “garbage man PF with hops”. People thought he was Blake Griffin-lite taken with the number 4 pick in what was considered at the time a deep draft. Also, calling AG this rosters budding “second best player” means less than nothing with the severe lack of talent currently. Just keeping it real.

Glad someone is finding positive for this organization.

[SOUL]

Problem with all of this is what happens to Isaac? Sure, AG has raised his numbers this month, but Isaac has looked brutally bad playing out of position next to him.

Not to mention that although his numbers have been better, having him as a secondary option to Vuc hasn’t produced winning basketball.

By the way, nobody thought he was a “garbage man PF with hops”. People thought he was Blake Griffin-lite taken with the number 4 pick in what was considered at the time a deep draft. Also, calling AG this rosters budding “second best player” means less than nothing with the severe lack of talent currently. Just keeping it real.

Glad someone is finding positive for this organization.

He was definitely called that. I remember it specifically being thrown around his first-early 2nd year when he was getting similar criticisms that Isaac is getting now. Quite a few people were saying that he was only good at getting garbage buckets (aka offensive rebounds or like, spoon-fed close to the basket shots) and doubting his potential on offense.

I don't think Isaac and Gordon are even specifically getting in each other's way when it comes to points or shots. Rebounds or assists? Possibly, but it's because Gordon is better at those two areas currently. It's the fact that Isaac is the 5th option in the starting lineup, but overall like 7th or 8th on the team, which is why he isn't putting up big counting numbers. I mean if he's going 3-6 and Fournier is going 5-14, I don't see the inherent problems of Isaac other than his usage rate is just super low. Any trade of any player in the starting lineup I think would benefit him if the guy coming in isn't some huge usage guy. If we're looking towrds the future, then obviously if they both are best at PF then that will be addressed, but I don't think we need to panic about that right now.

The 2nd best player thing is less about making it sound impressive and more about a response to "Is Gordon starting material?" which seems like a very weird statement since he's very clearly a starter in this league.

[VFX]

Problem with all of this is what happens to Isaac? Sure, AG has raised his numbers this month, but Isaac has looked brutally bad playing out of position next to him.

Not to mention that although his numbers have been better, having him as a secondary option to Vuc hasn’t produced winning basketball.

By the way, nobody thought he was a “garbage man PF with hops”. People thought he was Blake Griffin-lite taken with the number 4 pick in what was considered at the time a deep draft. Also, calling AG this rosters budding “second best player” means less than nothing with the severe lack of talent currently. Just keeping it real.

Glad someone is finding positive for this organization.

He was definitely called that. I remember it specifically being thrown around his first-early 2nd year when he was getting similar criticisms that Isaac is getting now. Quite a few people were saying that he was only good at getting garbage buckets (aka offensive rebounds or like, spoon-fed close to the basket shots) and doubting his potential on offense.

I don't think Isaac and Gordon are even specifically getting in each other's way when it comes to points or shots. Rebounds or assists? Possibly, but it's because Gordon is better at those two areas currently. It's the fact that Isaac is the 5th option in the starting lineup, but overall like 7th or 8th on the team, which is why he isn't putting up big counting numbers. I mean if he's going 3-6 and Fournier is going 5-14, I don't see the inherent problems of Isaac other than his usage rate is just super low. Any trade of any player in the starting lineup I think would benefit him if the guy coming in isn't some huge usage guy. If we're looking towrds the future, then obviously if they both are best at PF then that will be addressed, but I don't think we need to panic about that right now.

The 2nd best player thing is less about making it sound impressive and more about a response to "Is Gordon starting material?" which seems like a very weird statement since he's very clearly a starter in this league.

Gordon has also had his supporters. Let’s not act like he wasn’t always considered the future after Oladipo. The garbage bucket thing is mostly because he’s had no go-to move and still kinda doesn’t. His shooting numbers have gone up, so that’s a positive.

I do see the Isaac thing as a problem. Why? Because as the 6th pick playing as the 5th option in a starting lineup of DJ and Fournier and he should be able to outshine them. He’s 6’11 playing next to a 6’9 pf. It’s not really about the numbers and more about the skill set to match the other players on the team. Nothing to panic about now, but nothing ever really is until it becomes an issue. Like the issues that this FO have still failed to address.

Gordon is starting material. Nobody has ever said he wasn’t. His game makes less sense to me next to Vuc in a stagnant half court offense, always did and always will. Put him in a run and gun offense and he would thrive similarly to Draymond with obviously lesser surrounding talent. In Orlando that will probably never happen for him.

[drsd]

Don't get me wrong, I think AG is a significantly better defender, but as his stats improve, the team seems to do worse.

... not sure how we're "doing worse" with him playing better?

The Magic is losing at an accelerating rate over the last month.

[SOUL]

Don't get me wrong, I think AG is a significantly better defender, but as his stats improve, the team seems to do worse.

... not sure how we're "doing worse" with him playing better?

The Magic is losing at an accelerating rate over the last month.

I mean, what this graph shows is that no matter who is playing good or bad on this team, we always slide in January-February like clockwork.

[fendilim]

Gordon has improved a lot when it comes to shot selections.he is forcing less shots this year as well.
https://stats.nba.com/player/203932/shots-dash/

He is basically the same player from before (offensively), but making better plays. His off the dribble game is still not efficient, but he takes less of it now than the first four years. You’d still want him taking it strong to the basket.

I’m glad Clifford has put in him in a position to succeed.and Gordon buying into it.

[drsd]

I mean, what this graph shows is that no matter who is playing good or bad on this team, we always slide in January-February like clockwork.

Staying ti the theme of this thread, will Gordon playing at a 16/8 level, with better than a average defense, bee enough to get the Magic to the playoffs this year? At 3 1/2 games back of the 8 slot, the Magic needs to win about 61% of their final games (that's what is needed for a 40-42 record, which is the current #8-seed target).

Given that only the current 1-5 seeds are at that rate, IU believe Gordon needs to step-up further.


..

[rcklsscognition]

I said a few years ago we'd be lucky if AG ever made it to Tobias' level. He's still not there yet. He's not really done anything much different this season. His 3pt percentage is up a bit, but TS is nearly the same, he's scoring less per game and being used less per game.

16/7 is just not that good. Harris is putting up 20/8 and that's honestly exactly where AG should be if he was progressing on schedule, but he's taken a step back this year because he's not being used enough. Whether or not that is coach or his own failures, we may never know.

[fklt]

don't know about true shooting or efficiency, but the way he played the game changed considerably. and all for the better.

[j-ragg]

don't about true shooting or efficiency, but the way he played the game changed considerably. and all for the better.

Definitely. His shot will always be somewhat shaky, he's not a natural shooter/scorer but his quality of shots has changed a lot for the better.

[basketballRob]

Cliff has Vučević, Aaron, DJ and Ross all playing to their strengths and we might be seeing the best versions of them all so far.

I agree, I feel like most of the teams during our tank had way more depth than this team and the only reason they lost so much is they were tanking.


Clifford has maximized what these guys can do.