ImageImageImageImage

Eating Crow: VOL. Jonathan Isaac

Moderators: Howard Mass, UCFJayBird, ChosenSavior, Knightro, SOUL, Def Swami

BadHombre
Senior
Posts: 695
And1: 481
Joined: Dec 29, 2018

Re: Eating Crow: VOL. Jonathan Isaac 

Post#21 » by BadHombre » Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:03 am

Nyce_1 wrote:I don't read everything on the board but people wanted to trade him? For real?


I’m struggling to remember anyone actually saying we should trade him. I’m sure some people did. I know I’ve always said I didn’t see a problem with trading Isaac or Bamba for another prospect (DSJ or Jaylen Brown, or in a package for Beal). Obviously a deal like that for Fultz that costs nothing trumps a move like that. But I was never off Isaac, and I’ve always been a fan of his and happy to wait for his game to come through.
pepe1991
General Manager
Posts: 9,609
And1: 7,738
Joined: Jan 10, 2016
   

Re: Eating Crow: VOL. Jonathan Isaac 

Post#22 » by pepe1991 » Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:17 am

He has been great last two games, however there is argument to be made that Gordon played much less than he usually does. 29 in one and 26 in other game.

For god knows how long lot of us point out that their pairing isn't perfect. Doesn't help that Gordon's shooting is having falling projection as season goes on.

As for "trade him" , if it's pointed to me, i wanted to trade him for another prospect ( Smith in particular ) in moment when Magic had: Grant, Augustin and Brisco as only PG options . Now with Fultzs is whole different story, assuming he will be good to go next season.

Best thing WeHam did in free agency is making Gordon's deal scaling down, to make potential trades easier.

As for eating crow, he didn't play well in past ,that's just fact, he is starting to play better and i'll be happy if it turns out i was wrong. His 3 pointer is probably key for reaching new level, prior this 7-15 hot streak he missed i think 24 of 28 threes.
And his defense was never really issue ,it was always how little he contributed to offense.
"A straight path never leads anywhere except to the objective."
Andre Gide
User avatar
fklt
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,398
And1: 1,464
Joined: Mar 09, 2011

Re: Eating Crow: VOL. Jonathan Isaac 

Post#23 » by fklt » Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:05 am

i advocated for trading him insistently, still do to be honest. and my reasoning is quite simple: BIG does not make sense, and between them isaac is the one i least believe in. that might change if bamba's lack of motor becomes a bigger problem for him than isaac's lack of assetiveness and on-ball skills. also this does not mean i think isaac can't become a valuable contributor to a good team at some point, it means this is not the best team for him to do so.
pepe1991
General Manager
Posts: 9,609
And1: 7,738
Joined: Jan 10, 2016
   

Re: Eating Crow: VOL. Jonathan Isaac 

Post#24 » by pepe1991 » Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:00 pm

fklt wrote:i advocated for trading him insistently, still do to be honest. and my reasoning is quite simple: BIG does not make sense, and between them isaac is the one i least believe in. that might change if bamba's lack of motor becomes a bigger problem for him than isaac's lack of assetiveness and on-ball skills. also this does not mean i think isaac can't become a valuable contributor to a good team at some point, it means this is not the best team for him to do so.


It's kind a no brainer that at some point Magic will have to split 3 of them .
It's just matter who and for what but i think that process will depend on how offseason is played out and how next season looks . Than around next trade deadline some moves might happen.
"A straight path never leads anywhere except to the objective."
Andre Gide
basketballRob
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,167
And1: 1,672
Joined: May 05, 2014
     

Re: Eating Crow: VOL. Jonathan Isaac 

Post#25 » by basketballRob » Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:23 pm

BadHombre wrote:
Nyce_1 wrote:I don't read everything on the board but people wanted to trade him? For real?


I’m struggling to remember anyone actually saying we should trade him. I’m sure some people did. I know I’ve always said I didn’t see a problem with trading Isaac or Bamba for another prospect (DSJ or Jaylen Brown, or in a package for Beal). Obviously a deal like that for Fultz that costs nothing trumps a move like that. But I was never off Isaac, and I’ve always been a fan of his and happy to wait for his game to come through.


It's seems like I remember scenarios for Barnes or TJ Warren.

We're all wrong sometimes about these young guys. I thought Adam Morrison was the next Larry Bird.





Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app
yoyojw17
Analyst
Posts: 3,153
And1: 2,084
Joined: Dec 26, 2011
Location: Gainesville,FL
 

Re: Eating Crow: VOL. Jonathan Isaac 

Post#26 » by yoyojw17 » Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:24 pm

When does the Iwundu Vol start? lol

But for real though.... he's been playing great.

Clifford is really getting through to these guys. Magic basketball is becoming exciting again.
NickAnderson
General Manager
Posts: 7,889
And1: 2,917
Joined: Jul 11, 2009
Location: Club Space
     

Re: Eating Crow: VOL. Jonathan Isaac 

Post#27 » by NickAnderson » Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:31 pm

What does eating crow mean
MaxFischer
Pro Prospect
Posts: 756
And1: 47
Joined: Apr 16, 2002
Location: Rushmore Academy
   

Re: Eating Crow: VOL. Jonathan Isaac 

Post#28 » by MaxFischer » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:23 pm

NickAnderson wrote:What does eating crow mean


basically admitting you were wrong
May I see some documentation on that please?
JBSouthpaw
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,830
And1: 615
Joined: Mar 01, 2011

Re: Eating Crow: VOL. Jonathan Isaac 

Post#29 » by JBSouthpaw » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:27 pm

yoyojw17 wrote:When does the Iwundu Vol start? lol

But for real though.... he's been playing great.

Clifford is really getting through to these guys. Magic basketball is becoming exciting again.


This is a good point.

1. New system
2. didn't know which players were the ones who needed to be in the rotation

causing Coach to take the 1st half of the season to figure this team out and the players to figure out their roles.
Wes/Simmons
Briscoe/Grant
MaxFischer
Pro Prospect
Posts: 756
And1: 47
Joined: Apr 16, 2002
Location: Rushmore Academy
   

Re: Eating Crow: VOL. Jonathan Isaac 

Post#30 » by MaxFischer » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:28 pm

pepe1991 wrote:And his defense was never really issue ,it was always how little he contributed to offense.


Not trying to start anything, but you complained about JI's defense in the past. You said he was always out of position going for meaningless blocks and leaving his man. I think it was even you, or another poster, that posted some stats about how blocks really weren't valuable.

Bottom line, and I think we can all agree now, is that he needs time to develop and grow. He is not a finished product and has a lot of work to do. But there are signs of a very good player. Whether he reaches his full potential is up to him.
May I see some documentation on that please?
User avatar
BadMofoPimp
RealGM
Posts: 45,663
And1: 10,583
Joined: Oct 12, 2003
Location: In the Paint

Re: Eating Crow: VOL. Jonathan Isaac 

Post#31 » by BadMofoPimp » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:28 pm

Slim has played well as of late!
Image

Provin Ya'll Wrong!!!
User avatar
swarlesbarkley
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,938
And1: 1,019
Joined: Jun 18, 2014
   

Re: Eating Crow: VOL. Jonathan Isaac 

Post#32 » by swarlesbarkley » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:39 pm

I was down on him for a while this season and advocated for a JI/DSJ trade because of how timid JI looked out there. Now that he's being more aggressive and his shot is falling, he looks great!
User avatar
Nemesis21
RealGM
Posts: 38,166
And1: 6,236
Joined: Feb 11, 2006
Location: Free Nemesis21
         

Re: Eating Crow: VOL. Jonathan Isaac 

Post#33 » by Nemesis21 » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:51 pm

Long live Groot!
User avatar
Furinkazan
Head Coach
Posts: 6,882
And1: 2,932
Joined: May 11, 2005
       

Re: Eating Crow: VOL. Jonathan Isaac 

Post#34 » by Furinkazan » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:55 pm

Image


This thread was made for pepe so he could confess his sins? :lol:
Knightro
Forum Mod - Magic
Forum Mod - Magic
Posts: 5,733
And1: 5,998
Joined: Dec 18, 2010
Location: Orlando, FL
   

Re: Eating Crow: VOL. Jonathan Isaac 

Post#35 » by Knightro » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:58 pm

I go back to what I said back in October because I still feel the same way.

viewtopic.php?p=69551588#p69551588

"Jonathan Isaac is the kind of guy that if he was on the Warriors right now he would be an analytics darling and everyone would be falling over themselves with how he does all the little things that are critical for their success.

Given his lack of natural shot creation ability, I don't really see a superstar. But I don't see any scenario where Isaac at worst isn't a super duper high end (like one of the best in the league) role player/glue guy on a good team.

He defends multiple positions at a high level, makes open threes, doesn't turn it over, runs the floor, protects the rim, rebounds on both ends.

He's got a remarkably high floor and should be a productive player even if his ceiling isn't sky high."


JI definitely has elements of Shane Battier's game and Andrei Kirilenko's game in him.

I do think Isaac's shooting will improve with more experience and more reps, but ultimately his ball handling/ability to effectively attack off the dribble is really going to determine his overall ceiling as an offensive player.
User avatar
BadMofoPimp
RealGM
Posts: 45,663
And1: 10,583
Joined: Oct 12, 2003
Location: In the Paint

Re: Eating Crow: VOL. Jonathan Isaac 

Post#36 » by BadMofoPimp » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:37 pm

Knightro wrote:I go back to what I said back in October because I still feel the same way.

viewtopic.php?p=69551588#p69551588

"Jonathan Isaac is the kind of guy that if he was on the Warriors right now he would be an analytics darling and everyone would be falling over themselves with how he does all the little things that are critical for their success.

Given his lack of natural shot creation ability, I don't really see a superstar. But I don't see any scenario where Isaac at worst isn't a super duper high end (like one of the best in the league) role player/glue guy on a good team.

He defends multiple positions at a high level, makes open threes, doesn't turn it over, runs the floor, protects the rim, rebounds on both ends.

He's got a remarkably high floor and should be a productive player even if his ceiling isn't sky high."


JI definitely has elements of Shane Battier's game and Andrei Kirilenko's game in him.

I do think Isaac's shooting will improve with more experience and more reps, but ultimately his ball handling/ability to effectively attack off the dribble is really going to determine his overall ceiling as an offensive player.


I reckon he wouldn't get much playing time on the Warriors so in 15mpg, he would have great analytics!
Image

Provin Ya'll Wrong!!!
User avatar
j-ragg
RealGM
Posts: 16,283
And1: 9,792
Joined: Mar 31, 2005
Location: the don't re-sign Hedo bandwagon.
   

Re: Eating Crow: VOL. Jonathan Isaac 

Post#37 » by j-ragg » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:55 pm

Ya I talked some crap about him earlier in the season. Glad he’s playing better. Still think he’ll be best as a center in the future but playing the 3 could at least help develop him in some ways.

His rebounding has impressed me the most in this streak. There’ll be three guys from the other team under the hoop and Isaac just goes and gets it sometimes. Hope he stays healthy.
BadMofoPimp wrote:Durant thinks Vooch is one of the Best Centers in the NBA. I will take his word over a couch-GM yelling at a TV.
User avatar
PrimeThyme
Head Coach
Posts: 6,591
And1: 8,249
Joined: May 25, 2016
Location: Doak Campbell
 

Re: Eating Crow: VOL. Jonathan Isaac 

Post#38 » by PrimeThyme » Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:29 pm

I don't really care about certain posters eating crow, I just wish they would use this as a lesson going forward. A lot of us have been preaching patience with Isaac from the beginning. Everyone likes the idea of taking on a high ceiling project at first, but once you realize the time it takes to develop one many people just lose their patience and bail on a player.

Isaac still has a long road ahead of him and there will be nights where his shot isnt falling and DJ isnt playing out of his mind where it will be tempting to bail on him again, but I think this should be a reminder of what he can be && we still aren't even scratching the surface of the kind of offensive player he could become someday imo.

I'm not saying its guaranteed to happen, but if he can improve his handle we have seen how well he finishes around the basket and occasionally shoots from midrange (85% from the ft line so I think this is an area he can def improve quickly in too). A functional handle that allows him to pick his mid-range shots on the court and take his man off the dribble will go a long way for him. I think him improving his shooting and adding that to his game is the next step.

I mentioned it in the game thread last night, but I really think you unlock Isaacs potential if you can get Fultz back healthy. He is going to be at his best playing next to an elite playmaker that likes to get out on the break which is exactly what Fultz can bring if healthy.
Image

Formerly known as: PrimeShaq
dsg2021
Veteran
Posts: 2,735
And1: 708
Joined: Jul 07, 2009
Contact:
   

Re: Eating Crow: VOL. Jonathan Isaac 

Post#39 » by dsg2021 » Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:48 pm

You just thank God none of y'all run the FO or have any tiny bit of sway with it whatsoever. Simple. I never once, ever put J.I. in a single trade scenario, ever, period. It's as obvious as it can f'in be as to why. And I gave up defending on him for the same exact reason I wrote in my first sentence.
The only other player in the entire roster who comes close to J.I.'s value in the full balance of youth/upside/untapped ceiling/ability today is AG. So no, there's no B.I.G. problem for me, either. At least not with AG and J.I. together.
yoyojw17
Analyst
Posts: 3,153
And1: 2,084
Joined: Dec 26, 2011
Location: Gainesville,FL
 

Re: Eating Crow: VOL. Jonathan Isaac 

Post#40 » by yoyojw17 » Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:00 pm

dsg2021 wrote:You just thank God none of y'all run the FO or have any tiny bit of sway with it whatsoever. Simple. I never once, ever put J.I. in a single trade scenario, ever, period. It's as obvious as it can f'in be as to why. And I gave up defending on him for the same exact reason I wrote in my first sentence. It's just too tiring to bother with some of the people in here these days.

And the only other player in the entire roster who comes close to J.I.'s value in terms of youth/upside/untapped ceiling is AG. So no, there's no B.I.G. problem for me, either. At least not with AG and J.I. together.

BIG doesn't work because 2 of the 3 are pretty much rookies and works in progress... does not make sense. SMH. This Isaac is a totally different person from 2018... and has now started to look good with gordon... who on his own is still getting better and bamba has played... 47 games at 16 mpg and his body is still 2 years away from being NBA matured. Does BIG work NOW.... nope not really.... can they become something special when they have hit their primes... Dang right i believe they can. Either that or we can scrap and separate .... then look back and say something like "MAAAAANNNNN TOBIAS would look great next to Gordon right now".

Needless to say.... if they were already close to reaching their potentials.... blow it up. But I still believe Isaac and Bamba are scratching the surface and gordon is not close to his peak either.

Return to Orlando Magic