You can only keep one: Vuc or Ross?

[NotACat]

Vuc gets around 75% more usage than Isaac. If Isaac had the same usage he would score around 17 ppg, that's with no plays being drawn up for him. If they ran plays for him to get him freed up he would probably score more.

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Isaac is promising but saying he is almost better than Vuc is too much. Vuc is hugely more efficient on a higher usage. Isaac barely shown he is role player on offense, Vuc is one of the most offensively gifted big man in the nba

I think people here overrate Vuc so much. For Vuc's career his TS is 535 compared to Isaac's 527. Isaac TS is 545 this year a feat Vuc has only accomplished twice including this year.

People need to take the Vuc goggles off

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TS% isn't the end all be all. The vast majority of JIs baskets are assisted while Vooch consistently creates his own shot

[basketballRob]

Isaac is promising but saying he is almost better than Vuc is too much. Vuc is hugely more efficient on a higher usage. Isaac barely shown he is role player on offense, Vuc is one of the most offensively gifted big man in the nba

I think people here overrate Vuc so much. For Vuc's career his TS is 535 compared to Isaac's 527. Isaac TS is 545 this year a feat Vuc has only accomplished twice including this year.

People need to take the Vuc goggles off

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TS% isn't the end all be all. The vast majority of JIs baskets are assisted while Vooch consistently creates his own shot

Isaac isn't asked to create, which I think he is totally able to do. I think we would've won more game using Isaac more in crunch time than Vuc.

Making the playoffs wouldn't be good for Vucevic because he'd be exposed.

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[BadMofoPimp]

Keep both then trade Bamba, DJ, Fournier and this years 1st rounder for a really good PG.

[BlueBalls]

Ross is not worth what he's going to demand. Not even close.

Vuc would be worth keeping if we can find a way to play him and Bamba at the same time. Otherwise, one of them has to go, and I'd rather save the money from Vucevic and put it towards a high caliber guard.

[MagicFan101]

Ross is not worth what he's going to demand. Not even close.

Vuc would be worth keeping if we can find a way to play him and Bamba at the same time. Otherwise, one of them has to go, and I'd rather save the money from Vucevic and put it towards a high caliber guard.

What a player demands and what a player gets can be very different things.

AG openly asked for a max. What did he get?

Isaiah Thomas demanded a lot following his “MVP season” (lol, just saying it still makes me laugh). What did he get?

So while I don’t want to overpay a 6th who goes hot and cold as frequently as Ross, I will be patient and wait to see what his market value actually is. Let him demand what he will. Let him test the open market. He is welcome to crawl back and take our offer should other teams not be as generous as he would hope.

[BlueBalls]

Very true.

I just see guys like Ross as being highly fungible. He's a good player, I don't want to kick him off the team or anything, but he should have been dealt before the deadline.

[basketballRob]

Jeremy Lamb looks like he's on the verge of being a Ross type player. Most Bobcats fans view him as the second best player on the roster.

He could be a cheaper option than Ross.

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[thelead]

This poll is a lot closer than I thought it would be

[anothermagicfan]

Even though vuc already has his replacement in line doesn't diminish his value to the team. This is the first time since weight left that we have an all-star. It's also the first time we're in the hunt for a playoff appearance. With that we become a team that free agents would consider signing with. Ross is a good player and our bench leader but he's a piece that's more replaceable. I'd prefer to keep him too, but if he was that good he'd be starting over Evan

[thelead]

Even though vuc already has his replacement in line doesn't diminish his value to the team. This is the first time since weight left that we have an all-star. It's also the first time we're in the hunt for a playoff appearance. With that we become a team that free agents would consider signing with. Ross is a good player and our bench leader but he's a piece that's more replaceable. I'd prefer to keep him too, but if he was that good he'd be starting over Evan

Have you seen Evan play this year? Do you need me to create another poll?

[drsd]

Have you seen Evan play this year? Do you need me to create another poll?

Fournier has adapted to his natural SG slot after years of playing out of position. His 2pt% and 3pt% have dipped. But neither is horrible.

When Orlando has defensive competence at the PG slot freeing up energy for Fournier, who has been guarding the tougher guard game in and out, I would expect Fournier to get his 3-ball back to 0.37 next season. That's fine if so.

All Orlando needs is a top-20 SG effort from him. Let's recall that the SG slot is the worst position for PER. For example, this year only 12 SG have a PER to be an average or better player; meaning 58 SGs are "below average".

Fournier's stat line is fine: 14.7 / 3.6 / 3.1 , but he is not super efficient in gaining those numbers. This is the kind of improvements Gordon has given.

In conclusion, Orlando PG-rotation and bench are both awful.


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[thelead]

Have you seen Evan play this year? Do you need me to create another poll?

Fournier has adapted to his natural SG slot after years of playing out of position. His 2pt% and 3pt% have dipped. But neither is horrible.

When Orlando has defensive competence at the PG slot freeing up energy for Fournier, who has been guarding the tougher guard game in and out, I would expect Fournier to get his 3-ball back to 0.37 next season. That's fine if so.

All Orlando needs is a top-20 SG effort from him. Let's recall that the SG slot is the worst position for PER. For example, this year only 12 SG have a PER to be an average or better player; meaning 58 SGs are "below average".

Fournier's stat line is fine: 14.7 / 3.6 / 3.1 , but he is not super efficient in gaining those numbers. This is the kind of improvements Gordon has given.

In conclusion, Orlando PG-rotation and bench are both awful.


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All of those words and he still doesn’t impact the game as much as Ross has this year.

[j-ragg]

Ross has definitely been better than Evan this year. Obviously the reverse was true the prior season. I don’t think either are really debatable (can’t tell if anyone was arguing it).

[OrlandO]

Have you seen Evan play this year? Do you need me to create another poll?

Fournier has adapted to his natural SG slot after years of playing out of position. His 2pt% and 3pt% have dipped. But neither is horrible.

When Orlando has defensive competence at the PG slot freeing up energy for Fournier, who has been guarding the tougher guard game in and out, I would expect Fournier to get his 3-ball back to 0.37 next season. That's fine if so.

All Orlando needs is a top-20 SG effort from him. Let's recall that the SG slot is the worst position for PER. For example, this year only 12 SG have a PER to be an average or better player; meaning 58 SGs are "below average".

Fournier's stat line is fine: 14.7 / 3.6 / 3.1 , but he is not super efficient in gaining those numbers. This is the kind of improvements Gordon has given.

In conclusion, Orlando PG-rotation and bench are both awful.


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All of those words and he still doesn’t impact the game as much as Ross has this year.

Fournier's year has been pretty forgettable, but Ross is starting to get overrated. For a middle of the pack team like ours how a player plays in losses is just as important as how he plays in wins. In our losses Ross is shooting 38% fg, has -17.6 NET rating, and is -353 (worst on the team). He's still a coin toss.

[pepe1991]

Fournier has adapted to his natural SG slot after years of playing out of position. His 2pt% and 3pt% have dipped. But neither is horrible.

When Orlando has defensive competence at the PG slot freeing up energy for Fournier, who has been guarding the tougher guard game in and out, I would expect Fournier to get his 3-ball back to 0.37 next season. That's fine if so.

All Orlando needs is a top-20 SG effort from him. Let's recall that the SG slot is the worst position for PER. For example, this year only 12 SG have a PER to be an average or better player; meaning 58 SGs are "below average".

Fournier's stat line is fine: 14.7 / 3.6 / 3.1 , but he is not super efficient in gaining those numbers. This is the kind of improvements Gordon has given.

In conclusion, Orlando PG-rotation and bench are both awful.


..

All of those words and he still doesn’t impact the game as much as Ross has this year.

Fournier's year has been pretty forgettable, but Ross is starting to get overrated. For a middle of the pack team like ours how a player plays in losses is just as important as how he plays in wins. In our losses Ross is shooting 38% fg, has -17.6 NET rating, and is -353 (worst on the team). He's still a coin toss.

That's why most contenders didn't really offer much for him. Guy has plays where he runs with ball and takes contested 3 over 2 players. Not highest BBIQ player for contending team.

[thelead]

All of those words and he still doesn’t impact the game as much as Ross has this year.

Fournier's year has been pretty forgettable, but Ross is starting to get overrated. For a middle of the pack team like ours how a player plays in losses is just as important as how he plays in wins. In our losses Ross is shooting 38% fg, has -17.6 NET rating, and is -353 (worst on the team). He's still a coin toss.

That's why most contenders didn't really offer much for him. Guy has plays where he runs with ball and takes contested 3 over 2 players. Not highest BBIQ player for contending team.

I agree with both of you but he’s still valuable, has been better than Fournier, and isn’t going to kill our salary cap which is why I would keep him over Vuc if I had to choose.

[MagicMatic]

This comes down to what people deem as “more important” moving forward.

Keep Vuc - Costs more money, we keep the same one dimensional offense, we are in win-now mode, cap space is scarce.

Keep Ross- Will cost less to retain, offense is faster paced, will force Clifford to rebuild the offense, commit more to youth, more flexibility moving forward.

Keep both- This is the roster we are committed to. It will be difficult to make significant changes to the starting lineup via free agency. Making the playoffs gives a lesser draft prospect. Barely missing the playoffs gives us a mediocre team picking at the tail end of the lottery. Trades needed to improve long term upside.

Don’t resign either - Rebuild under Clifford entirely. Lottery team lacking offense.

[MartinsIzAfraud]

Ross has definitely been better than Evan this year. Obviously the reverse was true the prior season. I don’t think either are really debatable (can’t tell if anyone was arguing it).

Not sure Ross has been better than Evan... If anything Evan has become just as hot/cold as TRoss.

[IllMagic04]

Ross I would try to keep but I would try too hard if its too expensive. Vuc Id let walk. We should traded him at the deadline. Let Birch and Bamba be our big guys going forward. But I think we all know what's going to happen. We will sign Vuc back to a 3 year deal. Ross we will bring back as well. Pretty much the same roster will be back but they will sell Fultz and our first rounder as something to be excited about. Just keep kicking the can down the road instead of making the needed changes now.

[drsd]

All of those words and he still doesn’t impact the game as much as Ross has this year.

And-1

Fournier has been a relative disappointment this year, indeed.

(my point is only that he is not the GREATEST disappointment; PG rotation and bench play outside of Ross)


Reflective and rhetoric; would Orlando have won 15 games without Ross' bench play?



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