Regular Season Game 68: Orlando Magic (31-36) at Memphis Grizzlies (27-40)

[paperboymafia]

The Magic are not a good team, and I am not using this as an excuse, but this was one of the worst officiated Magic games I have seen in a long time. Games are not normally this poorly officiated so when the referees are this blantently bad, I find myself raising questions about the NBA in general. Games like these make me question my fan hood. Not of the Orlando Magic, but of the NBA product overall.

Make no mistake, I am not letting the Magic off the hook here. They started the game with low energy, and did not pick up the effort until it was too late. One would expect a team desperate to make the playoffs would play 48 minutes.

I watched Philly -Indy and than Magic- Memphis ,back to back, refs in nba flat out suck.

Yep. Most sports have iffy officiating but the NBA...oof...takes the cake (granted, I do not watch every sport )The older I get the more I can just ignore it, go with the flow etc but it's just maddening at times. Especially when you see little moments of body language/posturing/looks or total lack of anything remotely human from the refs when they're being questioned --- they are the gatekeepers and many of them act like they bloody well know it and that is hugely problematic. Protecting refs is vital but every single game I watch, regardless of team, get so many weird as hell calls or ghost calls and I simply cannot wrap my head around that. And then the league and many onlookers wonder in bewilderment why so many are married to the idea that the league is a fix.

[darthmerrick]

At this point, we need to tank and try to drop below Charlotte, Washington, Dallas, New Orleans, and maybe Memphis. This team is fool’s gold and as much as the playoffs seem like a great leap forward, this team is in no position to contend with only 1 above average scoring threat and a mismatch of mediocre players.

This isn’t speaking out of frustration because I didn’t even watch the Grizzlies game, but out of realization that this team simply isn’t very good. Fournier, Gordon, and Augustin, maybe even Isaac and Ross, are masquerading as solid options on a contending team when in reality, they would all be either bench players or 5th options on contenders.

If management had any sense whatsoever, they’d tank like hell these last 15 games and hope to get Morant, Reddish, or Barrett and build around him, Fultz, Isaac, Bamba, and Gordon.

It doesn't make sense to tank. The way the new lottery system is, we are not going to have the odds to get a top 5 pick. Might as well go all in for playoffs and show free agents we are committed to moving forward and trying to win. We also need to make big moves this offseason. No one is safe if it brings back a star.

[PrimeThyme]

Watching the GSW/PHX game... man, we're going to suck for the foreseeable future. PHX sucks but they still have Booker, who is killing GSW and is an offensive machine, Ayton, who is a very solid big today and will only get better, and a top pick who could be Williamson, Morant or Barrett.

The only team in the bottom five that we look better than right now (I'm talking about future), is the Cavs.

Yeah, and PHX has really done well with the 50 top 5 picks they've had the last 5 years. I mean c'mon man, you're not actually jealous of Phx's situation are you? Young players go to die there. Booker and Ayton are nice offensive players but I will sig bet anyone that wants it that a Booker/Ayton pairing never wins more than a 1st round playoff series (if that) for that franchise. Booker has a -2.6 dbpm for his career and a 116 drtg average. Ayton is a litter better defensively but provides no rim protection and can't shoot 3's. Even if you add a Morant or Barrett to the mix there is no guarantee (JJ was considered a can't miss prospect).

I'm really not as down about our situation as others are. But then again I realize that half of this board didn't want to draft Isaac in the first place and up until his recent hot streak still cried about us not drafting DSJ (check out his numbers since joining NYK..lol). Isaac, Bamba, AG, with the possibility of a healthy Fultz is exciting to me. I think we are at least on equal footing as a team like Atlanta.

Imo Isaac and Bamba can be very good offensive players in this league. Even at this stage in Isaacs development, he can do more offensively then what we are asking from him. He just doesn't have the playmakers to get him the ball. Its pointed out in every game thread how many times we miss him wide open on a fastbreak or cut to the basket where he calls for the ball and never gets it.

As he has already done, Isaac is going to continue to surprise the doubters here.

[pepe1991]

The Magic are not a good team, and I am not using this as an excuse, but this was one of the worst officiated Magic games I have seen in a long time. Games are not normally this poorly officiated so when the referees are this blantently bad, I find myself raising questions about the NBA in general. Games like these make me question my fan hood. Not of the Orlando Magic, but of the NBA product overall.

Make no mistake, I am not letting the Magic off the hook here. They started the game with low energy, and did not pick up the effort until it was too late. One would expect a team desperate to make the playoffs would play 48 minutes.

I watched Philly -Indy and than Magic- Memphis ,back to back, refs in nba flat out suck.

Yep. Most sports have iffy officiating but the NBA...oof...takes the cake (granted, I do not watch every sport )The older I get the more I can just ignore it, go with the flow etc but it's just maddening at times. Especially when you see little moments of body language/posturing/looks or total lack of anything remotely human from the refs when they're being questioned --- they are the gatekeepers and many of them act like they bloody well know it and that is hugely problematic. Protecting refs is vital but every single game I watch, regardless of team, get so many weird as hell calls or ghost calls and I simply cannot wrap my head around that. And then the league and many onlookers wonder in bewilderment why so many are married to the idea that the league is a fix.

They'll call double dribble vs one player, than in next play for same stuff won't call for another player.
Some players get hacked and get no calls, others get fouls by wind blowing their beared. ( you know who ... ).

Amount of superstar "help" some players get is flat out embarrassing .

vs Heat Harden had 18 FTs, whole Heat team combined for 24

[PrimeThyme]

Defense in nba becomes kind a aftertought with rules that favor offensive players.
But what really ages poorly is 1 on 1 defense , that is now basically on verge of extinction as skill with multiple switches and team oriented defense that limits mental lapses instad of throwing players under a bus to play 1 vs 1.

Offense however, has direct co-relation in standings.
Best teams by off rating are :
Bucks
Warriors
Rockets
Nuggets
Blazers
Raptors
Pelicans
Spurs
Philly

That's 9 of NBA's best teams, slotted in top 10, where on DEF rating you have Warriors, Nuggets and Blazers slotted in middle.

Problem is that Magic front office still overvalues defense as skill in general and keeps drafting defenders with limited upside on offense.
Last night is best example how poorly Magic look when Evan and Ross are changed for Iwundu. Floor spacing flat out died.

In mean time Conley and Bradley,especially Conley kept drifting through Magic defense and kept making right plays.

Games like this expose main issue ( that Magic Matic lot of times said ) of Gordon and Isaac as pair. You can get away in regular season with them,as opponents go under every screen for both, but moving forward you simply can't have 2 mediocre shooters at wing who don't really put ball on the floor or excel in any other way on offense outside of occasional "hot "shooting streak of making few uncontested shots.

Gordon's 248/279 three point attemps were viewed as "open " or "wide open", so as you can see, nobody really respects him as shooter to the point where he will actually streach defense and make impact by his shooting.

Isaac is even worst when it comes to drawing defenders.

He took 195 threes before this game ,182 of them were open or wide open by nba.com
And he shoots around 30% from them.


For example ;Ross shoots 42% in situations when he is open and 41,6% in situations when he is wide open.

Isaac is undoubtedly improving in that area. The last 15 games he is shooting 48% on "wide open" 3's (where most of his 3's are coming from) according to NBA.com. Thats better than Ross, Evan, and Vuc during the same time period.

If you leave him wide open at this point he is at least hitting them now. That was the first step he had to take this year. The next step is him beginning to hit more contested shots but I have full confidence that he will begin to. AG is much more of an offensive project than Isaac will be imo. Isaac has much more of a natural feel on offense and will get to the line and shoot 3's at a better rate than AG ever has.

Last night is more of a perfect example of what happens if we play selfishly on offense and what happens when Vuc starts to settle for jumpers again. That was the difference imo. AG didn't shoot it well but he still had 6 assists and was the only starter with a positive +/-.

[pepe1991]

Watching the GSW/PHX game... man, we're going to suck for the foreseeable future. PHX sucks but they still have Booker, who is killing GSW and is an offensive machine, Ayton, who is a very solid big today and will only get better, and a top pick who could be Williamson, Morant or Barrett.

The only team in the bottom five that we look better than right now (I'm talking about future), is the Cavs.

Yeah, and PHX has really done well with the 50 top 5 picks they've had the last 5 years. I mean c'mon man, you're not actually jealous of Phx's situation are you? Young players go to die there. Booker and Ayton are nice offensive players but I will sig bet anyone that wants it that a Booker/Ayton pairing never wins more than a 1st round playoff series (if that) for that franchise. Booker has a -2.6 dbpm for his career and a 116 drtg average. Ayton is a litter better defensively but provides no rim protection and can't shoot 3's. Even if you add a Morant or Barrett to the mix there is no guarantee (JJ was considered a can't miss prospect).

I'm really not as down about our situation as others are. But then again I realize that half of this board didn't want to draft Isaac in the first place and up until his recent hot streak still cried about us not drafting DSJ (check out his numbers since joining NYK..lol). Isaac, Bamba, AG, with the possibility of a healthy Fultz is exciting to me. I think we are at least on equal footing as a team like Atlanta.

Imo Isaac and Bamba can be very good offensive players in this league. Even at this stage in Isaacs development, he can do more offensively then what we are asking from him. He just doesn't have the playmakers to get him the ball. Its pointed out in every game thread how many times we miss him wide open on a fastbreak or cut to the basket where he calls for the ball and never gets it.

As he has already done, Isaac is going to continue to surprise the doubters here.

You overlook strenght of conference as key factor here. Send Magic to west and they are 25 wins team. It's all about perspective.

Magic vs East have 21-19 record, vs West 10-18. In their division they (Suns) also have Warriors ( and Clippers).

And you play 52 games vs your conference and 30 vs other, as 1th grade math can tell you, it's simply much easier to play on East with respectful record than on West because West has 9 teams with winning record and where having 8 wins over .500 will be minimum required for playoffs, in same time it looks like 2 teams from East will go in playoffs with record below .500 , and maybe even with below 38 wins.

As far as roster goes, Booker on East is allstar , Ayton is top 5 center. On West Booker is just a dude. ( Look what happend to Lebron and his eastern conference kingdom and 8 years finals streak... )

[UCFJayBird]

The Magic are not a good team, and I am not using this as an excuse, but this was one of the worst officiated Magic games I have seen in a long time. Games are not normally this poorly officiated so when the referees are this blantently bad, I find myself raising questions about the NBA in general. Games like these make me question my fan hood. Not of the Orlando Magic, but of the NBA product overall.

Make no mistake, I am not letting the Magic off the hook here. They started the game with low energy, and did not pick up the effort until it was too late. One would expect a team desperate to make the playoffs would play 48 minutes.

Wish I could give you more And 1's because you nailed my sentiment exactly. If it weren't for these boards I'd probably quit on the NBA right now. I don't know if it's the Magic failing to capitalize on multiple opportunities to make the playoff push, the refs just getting worse and worse, or a combination of both but i'm tired of it.

[BadMofoPimp]

The Magic are not a good team, and I am not using this as an excuse, but this was one of the worst officiated Magic games I have seen in a long time. Games are not normally this poorly officiated so when the referees are this blantently bad, I find myself raising questions about the NBA in general. Games like these make me question my fan hood. Not of the Orlando Magic, but of the NBA product overall.

Make no mistake, I am not letting the Magic off the hook here. They started the game with low energy, and did not pick up the effort until it was too late. One would expect a team desperate to make the playoffs would play 48 minutes.

Wish I could give you more And 1's because you nailed my sentiment exactly. If it weren't for these boards I'd probably quit on the NBA right now. I don't know if it's the Magic failing to capitalize on multiple opportunities to make the playoff push, the refs just getting worse and worse, or a combination of both but i'm tired of it.

I reckon the Heat with Wades final season will make the NBA alot more money than a Magic playoff series.

[drsd]

They are not playoff caliber.

I agree that the Magic is not playing playoff calibre ball, but they might be a playoff team. That's a lot more than the last 6 years brought us fans.

[Uncommon]

At this point, we need to tank and try to drop below Charlotte, Washington, Dallas, New Orleans, and maybe Memphis. This team is fool’s gold and as much as the playoffs seem like a great leap forward, this team is in no position to contend with only 1 above average scoring threat and a mismatch of mediocre players.

This isn’t speaking out of frustration because I didn’t even watch the Grizzlies game, but out of realization that this team simply isn’t very good. Fournier, Gordon, and Augustin, maybe even Isaac and Ross, are masquerading as solid options on a contending team when in reality, they would all be either bench players or 5th options on contenders.

If management had any sense whatsoever, they’d tank like hell these last 15 games and hope to get Morant, Reddish, or Barrett and build around him, Fultz, Isaac, Bamba, and Gordon.

Give it up. There is not a chance in hell the Orlando Magic Players are going to allow a tank. Not going to happen no matter how often you scream it.

Did you even read my post? If you had, you’d see I very clearly suggested MANAGEMENT needs to tank, not players. Players don’t tank, never have, never will. That’d be ludicrous, suggesting that players should willingly lose games so that the team can find their replacements. But there are creative ways to do it. Managaement can choose to withhold players from playing games, or encourage coaches to play veterans less minutes, or give young players “more experience” etc. No one suggests players should willingly lose, but if management had any sense whatsoever, there would be a conversation between Hammond, Weltman, and Clifford to ensure we lose as many games as possible to secure the best pick.

[OrlandO]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

[I Rasharted]

[NotACat]

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

There was a lot more than just that. TRoss was fouled on the inbound pass on the last possession as well. Such BS

[BadMofoPimp]

At this point, we need to tank and try to drop below Charlotte, Washington, Dallas, New Orleans, and maybe Memphis. This team is fool’s gold and as much as the playoffs seem like a great leap forward, this team is in no position to contend with only 1 above average scoring threat and a mismatch of mediocre players.

This isn’t speaking out of frustration because I didn’t even watch the Grizzlies game, but out of realization that this team simply isn’t very good. Fournier, Gordon, and Augustin, maybe even Isaac and Ross, are masquerading as solid options on a contending team when in reality, they would all be either bench players or 5th options on contenders.

If management had any sense whatsoever, they’d tank like hell these last 15 games and hope to get Morant, Reddish, or Barrett and build around him, Fultz, Isaac, Bamba, and Gordon.

Give it up. There is not a chance in hell the Orlando Magic Players are going to allow a tank. Not going to happen no matter how often you scream it.

Did you even read my post? If you had, you’d see I very clearly suggested MANAGEMENT needs to tank, not players. Players don’t tank, never have, never will. That’d be ludicrous, suggesting that players should willingly lose games so that the team can find their replacements. But there are creative ways to do it. Managaement can choose to withhold players from playing games, or encourage coaches to play veterans less minutes, or give young players “more experience” etc. No one suggests players should willingly lose, but if management had any sense whatsoever, there would be a conversation between Hammond, Weltman, and Clifford to ensure we lose as many games as possible to secure the best pick.

If "Management" even attempted to tank at this stage, they would lose the loyalty of every single player on this team effectively ruining their relationship and potential free agents would see how ownership treats their players. You really have no clue do you.

[Uncommon]

Give it up. There is not a chance in hell the Orlando Magic Players are going to allow a tank. Not going to happen no matter how often you scream it.

Did you even read my post? If you had, you’d see I very clearly suggested MANAGEMENT needs to tank, not players. Players don’t tank, never have, never will. That’d be ludicrous, suggesting that players should willingly lose games so that the team can find their replacements. But there are creative ways to do it. Managaement can choose to withhold players from playing games, or encourage coaches to play veterans less minutes, or give young players “more experience” etc. No one suggests players should willingly lose, but if management had any sense whatsoever, there would be a conversation between Hammond, Weltman, and Clifford to ensure we lose as many games as possible to secure the best pick.

If "Management" even attempted to tank at this stage, they would lose the loyalty of every single player on this team effectively ruining their relationship and potential free agents would see how ownership treats their players. You really have no clue do you.

Your anti-tanking is strong, I’ll give you that. I’ll be you’ve been real satisfied with the team’s progress this last decade.

Can I get you a box of tissue for all those tears? Blow your nose, put your big boy pants on, and suck it up. This team as presently constructed isn’t missing a piece; they’re not 1 player away. They merely suck. They are a mismatched collection of subpar talent. They can all go if need be. I’ll say it again, if management had any sense, they’d blow the rest of this season. Clearly you have no sense so I’m not appealing to you, thus I still don’t know why you’re even bothering to respond. Goodbye, further comments from you will be not be read by me.

[BadMofoPimp]

Did you even read my post? If you had, you’d see I very clearly suggested MANAGEMENT needs to tank, not players. Players don’t tank, never have, never will. That’d be ludicrous, suggesting that players should willingly lose games so that the team can find their replacements. But there are creative ways to do it. Managaement can choose to withhold players from playing games, or encourage coaches to play veterans less minutes, or give young players “more experience” etc. No one suggests players should willingly lose, but if management had any sense whatsoever, there would be a conversation between Hammond, Weltman, and Clifford to ensure we lose as many games as possible to secure the best pick.

If "Management" even attempted to tank at this stage, they would lose the loyalty of every single player on this team effectively ruining their relationship and potential free agents would see how ownership treats their players. You really have no clue do you.

Your anti-tanking is strong, I’ll give you that. I’ll be you’ve been real satisfied with the team’s progress this last decade.

Can I get you a box of tissue for all those tears? Blow your nose, put your big boy pants on, and suck it up. This team as presently constructed isn’t missing a piece; they’re not 1 player away. They merely suck. They are a mismatched collection of subpar talent. They can all go if need be. I’ll say it again, if management had any sense, they’d blow the rest of this season. Clearly you have no sense so I’m not appealing to you, thus I still don’t know why you’re even bothering to respond. Goodbye, further comments from you will be not be read by me.

Your the one crying that the team needs to tank, thus I figured you already used up all your tissues. I will get you some more as I have a feeling I will hear much more crying while the team doesn't tank as you wanted them to.

[OrlandO]

Give it up. There is not a chance in hell the Orlando Magic Players are going to allow a tank. Not going to happen no matter how often you scream it.

Did you even read my post? If you had, you’d see I very clearly suggested MANAGEMENT needs to tank, not players. Players don’t tank, never have, never will. That’d be ludicrous, suggesting that players should willingly lose games so that the team can find their replacements. But there are creative ways to do it. Managaement can choose to withhold players from playing games, or encourage coaches to play veterans less minutes, or give young players “more experience” etc. No one suggests players should willingly lose, but if management had any sense whatsoever, there would be a conversation between Hammond, Weltman, and Clifford to ensure we lose as many games as possible to secure the best pick.

If "Management" even attempted to tank at this stage, they would lose the loyalty of every single player on this team effectively ruining their relationship and potential free agents would see how ownership treats their players. You really have no clue do you.

The young players probably won't care because they get to take on bigger roles. Then they struggle in those roles for a while until they themselves get dismissed by the team in favor of younger players that have proven even less. GM runs out of time and gets replaced. Coach gets replaced by new GM. Rinse, repeat. Hooray for the Orlando Farmers.

[The Real Dalic]

If "Management" even attempted to tank at this stage, they would lose the loyalty of every single player on this team effectively ruining their relationship and potential free agents would see how ownership treats their players. You really have no clue do you.

Your anti-tanking is strong, I’ll give you that. I’ll be you’ve been real satisfied with the team’s progress this last decade.

Can I get you a box of tissue for all those tears? Blow your nose, put your big boy pants on, and suck it up. This team as presently constructed isn’t missing a piece; they’re not 1 player away. They merely suck. They are a mismatched collection of subpar talent. They can all go if need be. I’ll say it again, if management had any sense, they’d blow the rest of this season. Clearly you have no sense so I’m not appealing to you, thus I still don’t know why you’re even bothering to respond. Goodbye, further comments from you will be not be read by me.

Your the one crying that the team needs to tank, thus I figured you already used up all your tissues. I will get you some more as I have a feeling I will hear much more crying while the team doesn't tank as you wanted them to.

Not gonna comment on the back and forth insults going on, but I hate when pro-tankers act like we weren't tanking the first 3-4 years which wasn't working. Now we recently switched to win-now mode and we're starting to see progress. Even had an All-Star this season. I'm happy with this direction.

Not every team goes from the lottery to championship contenders in the course of 3 seasons. Someimes we need incremental improvements. That's what we did during Dwights tenure here, we made small improvements from '04 until we got to our Finals run in '09.

[Xatticus]

Your anti-tanking is strong, I’ll give you that. I’ll be you’ve been real satisfied with the team’s progress this last decade.

Can I get you a box of tissue for all those tears? Blow your nose, put your big boy pants on, and suck it up. This team as presently constructed isn’t missing a piece; they’re not 1 player away. They merely suck. They are a mismatched collection of subpar talent. They can all go if need be. I’ll say it again, if management had any sense, they’d blow the rest of this season. Clearly you have no sense so I’m not appealing to you, thus I still don’t know why you’re even bothering to respond. Goodbye, further comments from you will be not be read by me.

Your the one crying that the team needs to tank, thus I figured you already used up all your tissues. I will get you some more as I have a feeling I will hear much more crying while the team doesn't tank as you wanted them to.

Not gonna comment on the back and forth insults going on, but I hate when pro-tankers act like we weren't tanking the first 3-4 years which wasn't working. Now we recently switched to win-now mode and we're starting to see progress. Even had an All-Star this season. I'm happy with this direction.

Not every team goes from the lottery to championship contenders in the course of 3 seasons. Someimes we need incremental improvements. That's what we did during Dwights tenure here, we made small improvements from '04 until we got to our Finals run in '09.

The only move that I can really think of as a tanking move was in letting Ryan Anderson go as a restricted free agent. We still went into that season with Nelson, Redick, Davis, and Afflalo on the roster. We never really embraced tanking.

We won 36 games with a 19-year-old Howard. You really can't compare that situation to anything that has happened since he was traded.

I'm not endorsing tanking, but I do believe that the path forward is a lot more nuanced than simply pounding your head against a wall in the hope that you will eventually break through.

[Uncommon]

EDIT: Dupe