What should Orlando do with Vuc?

zaymon · Post #101 » by **zaymon** » Mon Apr 8, 2019 11:31 am

Horford is earning 28 and I think it would be a fair price.
Best thing for development is hard work during practice. For Bamba to be able to practice with Vuc is more you can dream about. Those 10-15 minutes more during game are much less important and right now they are even dangerous for his frail body

BadMofoPimp · Post #102 » by **BadMofoPimp** » Mon Apr 8, 2019 11:36 am

What if Bamba ends up more Noel than Embiid. Then, the Magic would have let Vooch go for a player better suited for being a backup than a All-Star level starter. Just because a player is a top 10 pick never means they are automatically going to be great. Only time will tell and right now, at least we have an All-Star player that Bamba can learn from without the pressure of success or failure this early in his career.

OrlandoSaban · Post #103 » by **OrlandoSaban** » Mon Apr 8, 2019 11:55 am

What if we tanked again and got the #1 pick again?

I have never in my life known of a fan base who is so god damn negative with positive results.

Are you people **** kidding me about wanting to get rid of our only **** all star player in nearly a decade??

Jesus Christ, some of you are **** mental on this board

MoMM · Post #104 » by **MoMM** » Mon Apr 8, 2019 1:22 pm

Can we trade some "fans" to another team? I'm looking for a bag of chips or future considerations.

Hogified05 · Post #105 » by **Hogified05** » Mon Apr 8, 2019 1:36 pm

I have no clue what to do. Honestly I don't envy having to choose. Don't want to give up on Mo but I don't want to let Vuc walk.

One thing I would do is give a ring to Washington and see if they want to blow it up. I love me some Evan but he is what is keeping us from a top 4 seed imo. See how well and consistent he has been playing down the stretch and how it has made us better? If he was a 20-25 point scorer the whole season we might be contending. I think his talents would be maximized as a 3rd scorer on a contender.

With all that being said I think Beal would be that piece that puts us over the top. If Washington wanted to reset a bit while Wall heals up. Evan and Bamba for Beal works in the trade machine. Wall's contract is too big to shed. Give Bamba a year to develop and he is a better fit with Wall to me than Beal.

Fultz/DJ
Beal/Ross
AG/Ross
Isaac/Draft pick? FA?
Vuc/Birch

Think it benefits both squads. Lol but plenty of time for crazy scenarios later. Let's win some playoff games!

OrlandoSaban · Post #106 » by **OrlandoSaban** » Mon Apr 8, 2019 1:40 pm

MoMM wrote:Can we trade some "fans" to another team? I'm looking for a bag of chips or future considerations.

I went to the first game in the history of the Magic (30 years ago) - I have had season tickets for the past 14 seasons. Yea, go ahead and trade me.

OrlandoSaban · Post #107 » by **OrlandoSaban** » Mon Apr 8, 2019 1:42 pm

Bamba getting injured is the main reason we are now in the playoffs. The dude is going to be a bust.

Post #108 » by **Def Swami** » Mon Apr 8, 2019 2:22 pm

The Magic are bringing Vucevic back. And they should bring Vucevic back. I still don't feel like we totally appreciate what Vucevic did this year. He was an absolute beast this season. His improvement is IMHO the biggest reason we've been able to make a leap this year.

He had career highs in points (20.8 ppg), assists (3.8 apg), rebounds (12 rpg), (1.1) blocks, (25.4) PER, and (36.4%) 3FG%.

He was 9th in VORP, ahead of Steph Curry, Anthony Davis, LeBron James, Kyrie Irving, and Blake Griffin. He's 6th in BPM, right among the league's very best players. He's 4th among starting centers in PER. He's 11th among TPA.

He shot 36.4% from deep (5th among starting centers, right behind Brook "Splash Mountain" Lopez) and had a 57.3 TS%. He had a career-high 5.4 OWS. His assist percentage was its highest its ever been at 20.8% (2nd among starting centers, only to Jokic, and just ahead of Gasol). His on-off ORTG is +9.4; the rest of his on-off numbers are all significantly positive with the exception of blocks.

His defensive win shares was 6th among starting centers, more than Horford, Jokic, Capela, and Drummond. He's 8th in rebounding at 12 rpg.

He was the crux of the Magic offense this season. He became one of the best passing big men in the NBA. His ability to draw double teams and sling passes to anywhere on the court was vital to our success. Whether it was out of the post or at the high key or elbows, he was dishing at an unremarkably high rate. When your best player is as unselfish as Vucevic is, it helps breed that culture. You can't knock him for being inefficient. He's a real threat from deep that teams have to respect, opening the court for slashers like Gordon, Isaac, and Fournier. And while he'll never be a guy who can blow up a pick n' roll and recover, he's become a smart defender who tries hard and has improved his rim protection to respectable percentage (55% opp fg% w/in 6ft).

Some variation of Jokic, Embiid, Towns, and Gobert are clearly the top 4 centers in the league, but Vucevic IMHO was 5th this season. His season was prime Pau Gasol-esque. He was an all-star this season and well-deservedly one of the 25 best players in the NBA this season, and by some metrics, among the top 15.

The Magic have desperately tried to replace the star power that Dwight Howard filled for the last 7 years. We've bantered back and forth about which draft pick may have star level potential or what package the Magic could put together around Vucevic to land a star (that Vucevic for Jae Crowder thread feels like ages ago). But Vucevic just took his game to another level and established himself as a real star player. Jokic is younger and better at nearly everything compared to Vucevic, but their value and role to their respective franchises are similar. The Nuggets might serve as a template for the Magic over next 4 years if they choose to re-sign Vucevic.

Vucevic and Steve Clifford dragged this team to a 0.500 record and their first playoff birth in 7 years. Take him off and this team craters back into a 20-win abyss. We know the ownership, management, and coaching staff have no intention of taking any steps backward. The Magic are in good position to build from 0.500.

I admire how the Toronto Raptors built their team, and I see the Magic taking a slow, methodical approach just as they did. The Raptors always had Lowry and DeRozan as the fulcrums and continued to build around those 2 through the draft and smart signings and trades. They kept building their bench with G-league players and draft picks (Fred Van Vleet, Pascal Siakam, Norman Powell, Dwight Powell, OG Anunoby, etc) and developed one of the best benches in the league. And over time, some of those players have become good enough to take on more of a role as starters (namely Siakam and Van Vleet).

Vucevic is 28 and a 4 year deal taking him to age 32 is fine. I'm not worried about Mo Bamba's development. If anything, I think breeding him in a winning culture over the next 2-3 years will be good for him. Same goes for Markelle Fultz. And hopefully, those young guys get better on the bench and continue to build the depth of our team over time. The Magic will have a key opportunity to add to that depth with their first round pick this year. Wes Iwundu and MCW and Birch have turned themselves into playable rotation guys. And by the end of Vucevic's next contract, you would hope that Bamba is ready to take the reigns by then.

I think the Magic re-sign both Vucevic and Ross. Unless there's a real opportunity to make a splash, I don't anticipate many other changes. I think they bring in both Fultz and Bamba and hope Isaac also takes another step forward (also has been an excellent complement to Vucevic).

As fas as the number that Vucevic could look at, it's hard to say. I think the Magic are backed into a corner here. A lot of teams have money to spend and all it takes is one team to offer Vucevic a max contract for the Magic to have to match. At the same time, teams are getting smarter about spending money on big men since the blood bath of 2016 (Timofey Mozgov still making $17 mill/season on the bench). I'm anticipating something along the lines of a $90 million/4 years deal for Vucevic. Al Horford got $113 million/4 years a couple years ago, so I wouldn't be shocked for the number to go higher. Teams are going to value a big man who can play defense and shoot 3's efficiently.

Tarheel · Post #109 » by **Tarheel** » Mon Apr 8, 2019 2:45 pm

I think we'll keep Vuc and Ross. Moz becomes a $17m asset at the trade deadline next year (given the decreasing cap, a potentially quite valuable asset) so I expect us to run it back with some fringe changes and attempt to trade his contract with our FRP for some vet help (assuming we're still in the playoff picture, I have a feeling the East will be a lot stronger next year).

The issue is juggling the cap if we have to pay Vuc big money and still want to resign Ross. I assume Ross will earn a comparable amount to his current salary but we're probably going to have to double Vuc's. We have Bird Rights but I'm not sure Devos signs off on the luxury tax.

Letting either of them walk for nothing is just poor asset management more than anything else. Jeff and John do seem fiscally responsible so I'm not too worried. Hopefully we get them on team-friendly, descending deals a la AG.

MoMM · Post #110 » by **MoMM** » Mon Apr 8, 2019 4:43 pm

OrlandoSaban wrote:
MoMM wrote:Can we trade some "fans" to another team? I'm looking for a bag of chips or future considerations.

I went to the first game in the history of the Magic (30 years ago) - I have had season tickets for the past 14 seasons. Yea, go ahead and trade me.

Chill out, man, I believe I wasn't talking about you. Are you happy with going to the playoffs instead of tanking, right? Me too.

Skybox · Post #111 » by **Skybox** » Mon Apr 8, 2019 4:53 pm

Trading the asset that is Bamba is, in no way, the same as giving up on him or calling him a bust. He is a valuable asset that could be packaged for a better fitting asset from another team....I would say that about anyone on the team but, right now, Bamba may be the most sensible chip-given his rookie deal, his upside, and his redundancy with Vuc. If we keep them both -great! Depth is a blessing. But, IMO, he's the most likely piece (along with picks, Evan, Moz, etc )in a blockbuster for a scoring wing like Beal or CJ.

MoMM · Post #112 » by **MoMM** » Mon Apr 8, 2019 4:56 pm

We should root for Detroit. Perhaps if Hornets doesn't make the playoffs, Kemba will want to leave.

3ddman23 · Post #113 » by **3ddman23** » Mon Apr 8, 2019 5:15 pm

Skybox wrote:Trading the asset that is Bamba is, in no way, the same as giving up on him or calling him a bust. He is a valuable asset that could be packaged for a better fitting asset from another team....I would say that about anyone on the team but, right now, Bamba may be the most sensible chip-given his rookie deal, his upside, and his redundancy with Vuc. If we keep them both -great! Depth is a blessing. But, IMO, he's the most likely piece (along with picks, Evan, Moz, etc )in a blockbuster for a scoring wing like Beal or CJ.

This is the exact way I see it playing out. Not that I necessary agree with it but I think it may happen at the deadline. Something like forunier, mozgov & bamba for beal & mahini or McCollum & Myles Leonard. Something like that

IllMagic04 · Post #114 » by **IllMagic04** » Mon Apr 8, 2019 5:25 pm

We are going to keep Vuc and Ross and pay them whatever it takes. Mo will be the back up and Birch will walk. The hope is going to be that Fultz can return to form and Bamba will come back better in a cemented long term back up role. Add a shooter in the draft and the hope is we are back in the playoffs again next year. To me its been clear that that's the direction after we didn't move Vuc at the deadline

ORL_on_FIRE · Post #115 » by **ORL_on_FIRE** » Mon Apr 8, 2019 5:35 pm

Have him play his entire career in Orlando, retire his jersey, send him to the Magic HOF and remember him as the one we didn’t let get away.

Shady Franchise · Post #116 » by **Shady Franchise** » Mon Apr 8, 2019 5:42 pm

3ddman23 wrote:
Skybox wrote:Trading the asset that is Bamba is, in no way, the same as giving up on him or calling him a bust. He is a valuable asset that could be packaged for a better fitting asset from another team....I would say that about anyone on the team but, right now, Bamba may be the most sensible chip-given his rookie deal, his upside, and his redundancy with Vuc. If we keep them both -great! Depth is a blessing. But, IMO, he's the most likely piece (along with picks, Evan, Moz, etc )in a blockbuster for a scoring wing like Beal or CJ.

This is the exact way I see it playing out. Not that I necessary agree with it but I think it may happen at the deadline. Something like forunier, mozgov & bamba for beal & mahini or McCollum & Myles Leonard. Something like that

I believe they have their center of the future in Bryant. They also have Howard and Mahinmi, so I'm sure they wouldn't want Moz. It'd be tough to deal with Washington because they'd want higher draft picks than what we have, and I don't think they need Bamba.

Shady Franchise · Post #117 » by **Shady Franchise** » Mon Apr 8, 2019 5:49 pm

The thing that sucks about our roster is we're looking more like Boston (cap wise), rather than BKN or IND. This is a problem because we don't have the talent that Boston does. BKN and IND have a lot of room to play with. We'd need to get rid of Moz and Fournier in order to look decent with the cap, and even then, we're going to give Ross and Vuc nice pay days to stay with the team. The 2 highest paid players on BKN and IND would be like our 4th or 5th highest paid guys. How much room do we really have to improve (cap wise)?

3ddman23 · Post #118 » by **3ddman23** » Mon Apr 8, 2019 6:37 pm

Shady Franchise wrote:
3ddman23 wrote:
Skybox wrote:Trading the asset that is Bamba is, in no way, the same as giving up on him or calling him a bust. He is a valuable asset that could be packaged for a better fitting asset from another team....I would say that about anyone on the team but, right now, Bamba may be the most sensible chip-given his rookie deal, his upside, and his redundancy with Vuc. If we keep them both -great! Depth is a blessing. But, IMO, he's the most likely piece (along with picks, Evan, Moz, etc )in a blockbuster for a scoring wing like Beal or CJ.

This is the exact way I see it playing out. Not that I necessary agree with it but I think it may happen at the deadline. Something like forunier, mozgov & bamba for beal & mahini or McCollum & Myles Leonard. Something like that

I believe they have their center of the future in Bryant. They also have Howard and Mahinmi, so I'm sure they wouldn't want Moz. It'd be tough to deal with Washington because they'd want higher draft picks than what we have, and I don't think they need Bamba.

I believe dwight is a free agent this summer. Also mozgov would be in the deal just for the his contract 17 mill expiring. Not sure it could get it done. But I guess well all see

Mad Guru · Post #119 » by **Mad Guru** » Mon Apr 8, 2019 7:03 pm

Bamba for CJ McCollumn makes a ton of sense TBH

Post #120 » by **Def Swami** » Mon Apr 8, 2019 7:05 pm

Read on Twitter

What to do with Vuc after the season?